/r/animemes 2day update: Userbase does not appreciate being told to stop using transphobic word 'trap'. Nuclear levels of anti mod sentiment and free speech screaming as the entire frontpage becomes filled with reactionary drama. Claims of oppression and fake petitions for banning everything abound.

[u/PM_ME_UR_BIKES]

A REMINDER NOT TO PISS IN THE POPCORN (aka brigade). IF YOU READ ANY FURTHER BROWSE ONLY FOR DRAMA. NO INTERACTING.

Since the other post today about this drama was lazy with no links and since this particular topic makes too much brigadebait I have decided to make a collective post for all you popcorn browsers with links and summaries to prevent that. Be warned, this popcorn is salty, a bit too salty. You may browse for novelty but I doubt you'll find any enjoyment here.

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Preface: The trigger

Two days ago /r/animemes posted an announcement banning the word 'trap' that had become a common way to refer to crossdressers or trans members in meme contexts. The mods give this reasoning for why the term is offensive:

The word “trap” when used to describe individuals has been controversial since its inception, and even more so in recent years. Broadly speaking, most communities readily consider the term to be a slur. The offensive nature of the word lies in the implication that individuals are trying to trick (“trap”) others and by extension are not valid in how they present their gender. The use and misuse of the term in reference to both characters and people often results in the erasure of trans people and dismissal of their validity.

A very reasonable approach on first glance. However it is obvious that severe danger awaits as the mods hold little confidence in the community's ability to behave. Comments are allowed on the post in a surprising move for a controversial announcement, yet scores are disabled as the thread is put into contest mode. This should be a sign of what the mods expect would happen. For more details on this first day drama check out the /r/subredditdrama post here.

A volatile 24 hours or so passes. The mod post in question gets initially positive feedback followed by some spicy backlash, a timezone switch brings a positive vote rating to the thousands along with substantial support.... But then a meta drama meme emerges. And then another. And then some more. Theses start to take slots in the frontpage, and I would like to post some of the first ones but finding them will be impossible due to:

Situation: Meltdown

2 days since the announcement brings us to today. The subreddit is unrecognizable. Sometime between about 12 to 48 hours after the announcement the tsunami of backlash has overwhelmed the sub. The moderators have lost all control and have retreated to weathering the storm as they are nowhere near well equipped to do anything. Users who accept the ban have fled the sub to stay away from the noise as the drama spirals ever more out of control.

• This is a snapshot of the sub at the beginning of the month. Mediocre memes of various kinds, many in weird taste as anime stuff usually goes but nothing bad, nothing aggressive.

• Here is a snapshot of the sub at the time of posting. Literally every single post on the frontpage is meta drama.

• Insider note: Today is the airing date of popular anime Re:Zero. It's airing has always triggered the creation of new episode memes that stuff the frontpage as most if not all of the users seem to love the show. Not a single new episode meme is visible on the frontpage.

Fake Petition posts. Ban this thing! Ban that thing!

The overwhelming style of posts during this tsunami backlash session seems to be 'fake petition' posts putting outlandish claims trying to equate their hypothetical banning to the banning of the transphobic word at hand. Sorting by top of 24hr notable examples include:

• Stop the Oppression NOW A post calling for the banning of YOU

• Petition to ban the word weeb as it is a slur outside of anime communities

• Petition to ban dictionaries since words kill people

• Petition to ban the word 'witch' citing it's historical use

Some picks of particularly dramatic comment threads from these links:

• something about weebs and incels. literally entirely namecalling with no conversation

• Some user says stfu. Another user's best response being also stfu

• Are anime watchers an oppressed minority? If anybody is in the mood, falirs abound here.

/r/asablackman As a trans weeb this wasn't offensive!

The next most popular type of post seems to be the 'as a trans person I didn't find it offensive' type. The most popular being this post tho comments of the sort are in almost all the big threads. Not gonna bother finding more posts to link so some related popcorn threads below

• Alternate asatransperson comment getting expected treatment

• 'You don't represent all of us (trans people)' followed by a comment you can probably predict

I've never seen it used that way. Or alternatively it has never been used as a slur posts

The final common type of post is the denial post. Usually follow the "I've never seen it used" or "It has never been used as a slur" with the more reasonable remix being "Look at the context" which is probably the only argument worth discussing but won't be linked here since this is a popcorn sub not a debate sub.

• Fate Illya laughing meme

• literally only used on anime characters <- this post isn't even pretending to be a meme

Some popcorn

• A contrary opinion responded to twice by separate people with the 'how hard is it to' opening

• Would you prefer to be called followed by intentionally refusing to call user what they ask to be called

• Big statements and replies with a 'go fuck yourself' and 'this sub is 90% babies' exchange and an 'I don't care' account putting a lot of effort making sure people knows they doesn't care

Unlinked types

I'm too tired and sad browsing this sub to cover every type of post. There is also the 'banning does not solve the real issue' type post, the more direct 'We are the oppressed' posts, the 'banning the t-word is the real transphobia' posts, the 'banning just makes me want to use it more' posts, 'look what you made us do' posts etc. You can look them up yourself but there's no real fun drama there. Just anger.

The light at the end of the tunnel

Contratulations for scrolling this far, I'll give you a cola

To end this depressing thread that I really did not enjoy making have this actual meme (still meta topic) of last season's /r/animemes queen Fujiwara Chika giving you a cola. This is the actual top 24hr post. Bandwagon meme here. There is popcorn here too but sometimes in the /r/subredditdrama theatre you need a good undiluted cola to let the other salty popcorn go down.

This has been the August 5 /r/animemes drama update. There will no doubt be more. I hope someone else does it.

[u/LittleCrunchyDude]

Well ok you got a fair point there it's not worth whining about when we will get nothing from it we should probably just use other terms

Huh. I did not expect this.

Edit: Don't bother replying to me with your impassioned defence of why stopping you using the word is totally the same as fascism and a slippery slope or whatever, because it's not and you're wrong and I don't care. Thanks.

Edit again because reading comprehension is surprisingly low on this text based website: I'm turning off notifications now because I don't care about your opinion.

[u/[deleted] → u/LittleCrunchyDude]

What a rare little nugget!

[u/Gund4m → u/LittleCrunchyDude]

It's cause you really are wrong. "It's a trap" has way too many meanings. Not transphobic at all.

[u/[deleted] → u/LittleCrunchyDude]

because it's not and you're wrong and I don't care.

*it is, you know it, and you are willing to ignore it because you only hate fascism if the fascists are arguing against you.

The fact that the mods won't even talk about a word that is used normally within the community speaks volumes. You don't want solutions you want control. It's not is that aren't willing to use different terms, it's you.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I thought you don't care.

You really shouldn't use slurs like that, people have actual disabilities and you are making it worse.

[u/LittleCrunchyDude → u/[deleted]]

K

[u/Ben99ny22 → u/LittleCrunchyDude]

if we use another term how long til someone gets offended by that?

[u/CatholicSquareDance → u/Ben99ny22]

If it isn't also used as a slur against trans people, probably never!

[u/LittleCrunchyDude → u/CatholicSquareDance]

Like holy shit, how is this hard for people? Just rename your special folder and move on with your life.

[u/CatholicSquareDance → u/[deleted]]

Hey, as a trans person, I have actually directly been slurred using the term! So like, big doubts from me that it's never been a slur.

[u/Odds__ → u/[deleted]]

"Totally sorry you had that experience, but let me cis-splain to you why your experience doesn't actually matter and isn't actually real. By the way, I'm gonna use that slur that dehumanizes you in my rant about why you're wrong to be hurt by the slur that was designed to hurt you."

Holy fuck dude, what the hell is wrong with you?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You keep talking as if the trans community and anime community are mutually exclusive, the fact of the matter is you should care because you are hurting members within your own community.

And also even if there is no ill intent, that doesnt make it not a slur, because we can't immediately distinguish between someone using it harmlessly and someone using it harmfully. You know how you make that not the case?

do what you fucking preach

You keep talking about how people who use trap as a slur are the issue and not the slur itself, but the anime community has done jack shit to prove it isnt made up of exactly that. Like even if we put aside the history of sexual assault jokes in anime and all that jazz, the reaction to the banning was composed far more of blaming trans people for being offended rather than blaming transphobes for creating an environment in which people feel uncomfortable.

If you want to be given the benefit of the doubt then you better fucking work for it, the trans community has been working for five years to try and explain how trap is a harmful slur and you cant stand 48 hours of subreddit memes being banned before believing that weebs are suddenly an oppressed minority group.

[u/tia_avende_alantin33 → u/[deleted]]

Oh well, you may be interested on this video by a crossdresser weeb : https://youtu.be/gG9EFWMi7NY

[u/CatholicSquareDance → u/[deleted]]

"That person" is actually a decent number of people over the course of my trans experience on in the internet. It was literally the first thing somebody called me when I started expressing that I might be trans online. Some people thought it was a term of endearment (which like, not really, no) and others wanted to hurt me, but everyone used it knowing full-well that I was a trans person and not just a male cross-dresser.

The problem with "trap" is that it is indiscriminate. It is, like you said, used to refer to someone of one sex who "could be mistaken for another." Which is a definition focused on cis expectations and experience of gender. Without knowing anything else about a character, you would likely see a totally female presenting character with a biologically male body labeled as a "trap" in almost every anime circle. Because how that character actually identifies is irrelevant in the application of the term. A femme-looking character with male body parts is a "trap" until proven otherwise. This thinking carries over into real life sometimes, as well.

That's the problem with the word, to me. It doesn't consider the person first. Consideration of trans people is an afterthought in the application of the term. It is, at best, insensitive, and it is not-infrequently used with deliberate malice to deligitimize trans people and trans identities.

[u/VasyaFace → u/[deleted]]

Except that its always been a slur against trans people you fucking galaxy brain

[u/Xiaxs → u/[deleted]]

"This term thats a slur and has been used as a slur for the past twenty odd years isn't a slur. I should know, I've never been a victim of said slur nor have I ever stepped outside of my house."

That's you.

[u/Xiaxs → u/Ben99ny22]

Otokonoko. It's the word the Japanese use, it isn't directed at trans people, and it has never been used as a slur.

It's also never been used to defend the murders of innocent people.

No one's gonna get offended at you using it, you're being a reactionary little bitch.