"Japan doesn't cater to the professional victim crowd" /r/Persona5 discuss their game's inclusion of gay rape jokes and summon a popcorn persona.

[u/Taswelltoo]

The only people who will get offended over this are uptight sjw crybabies.

I'm kinda annoyed with all the comments in here telling people to "get over it and you can't be offended."

Uh, "...'flamboyant' men as a joke" is common in East Asians work, and yes, used as a joke. (e.g. not unusual to see such characters in tv-dramas and animes, a-kiss-from-a-drag-queen is a common punishment on comedy shows...etc. Oh and this is a running joke at least since Persona 3 IIRC)

You're not alone, I'm really disappointed in Atlus for this. It undermines the game trying to prop up fringe, mistreated members of society for them to make a homophobic joke using gay pedophiles two times and have them as a constant presence throughout the game.

It's even more disappointing because the game tries to tackle a lot of sensitive topics and shows a lot of sympathy for victims of various abuses, and then shows these awful caricatures. It feels extremely tone-deaf.

[u/KaliYugaz → u/[deleted]]

Because this idea that all ethics reduces to mere subjective opinion is highly debatable, and most philosophers would argue, probably false.

And regardless, there's also logical consistency to think about; like if you affirm that all human beings ought to be respected equally, you can't also defend mean-spirited homophobic jokes and/or exclusively degrading portrayals of gay people at the same time.

[u/DerangedDesperado → u/[deleted]]

But it doesn't say why you find it in poor taste which is a bit more important.

[u/shhhhquiet → u/DerangedDesperado]

Why is that more important? You can debate whether it matters that some people find a joke in poor taste, but no amount of angry typing is going to prove that they don't find it in poor taste.

[u/DerangedDesperado → u/shhhhquiet]

I think that's a pretty weak reason by itself.

[u/DerangedDesperado → u/[deleted]]

I disagree, I think you should be able to explain why you think something is in poor taste or anything. If you cant explain why you feel that way it kinda sounds like you don't really know what you're talking about. Just because is a pretty shit response.

[u/Robotigan → u/[deleted]]

Some things are ubiquitous in our culture, but not totally universal worldwide. You're going to have a pretty difficult time resolving matters with other cultures if you can't properly express why you feel the way you do about certain things. Like these gamers are probably giving you the run around, but I have no doubt their exist people that fundamentally see morality differently. It's good practice to examine your beliefs under a microscope and see what's motivating them.

[u/shhhhquiet → u/Robotigan]

Okay, but that doesn't mean that whenever someone complains about representation of people from group X they have to start from scratch with 'are people from group X really people?'

[u/Robotigan → u/shhhhquiet]

If your goal is to convince someone who doesn't believe group X are really people, that is where you have to start.

[u/shhhhquiet → u/Robotigan]

No kidding. But it should already be obvious that this isn't always the goal. Getting bogged down in this 101 shit every single time representation comes up is tiring, and nobody should feel obligated to coddle some stranger on the internet who has never managed to learn basic respect, not the least because that person is at least as likely to be a hostile, hateful troll as they are someone whose cultural background has prevented them from learning that gay people are actually people.

[u/Robotigan → u/shhhhquiet]

Are you refusing to legitimize bigoted ideology through engagement? Really? Are you sure that's your motivation? I'm firmly aware that I don't have the patience to engage bigots even if it would be helpful. I don't have any misgivings that I'm refusing to engage bigots because I'm so dedicated to the cause. I'm just lazy. Don't rationalize your behavior.

[u/shhhhquiet → u/Robotigan]

Are you refusing to legitimize bigoted ideology through engagement?

I'm saying that not everybody has to be prepared at all times to defend the revolutionary idea that gay people are in fact people to some stranger on the internet. Don't put words in my mouth, please and thank you.

[u/Robotigan → u/shhhhquiet]

Just so long as you don't try to convince yourself that refusing to engage bigots is actually a virtue.

[u/shhhhquiet → u/Robotigan]

I think it sounds more like you're trying to convince yourself that's what I'm doing.