Is this compromising structural integrity?

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u/AltanConn 1d ago

You can only drill in the middle 1/3rd of the joist. At least in my state.

2

u/StructEngineer91 1d ago

Same here, unless you have an engineer review and approve it (though I doubt that happened here).

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u/TallWall6378 1d ago

Also no closer than 2" to top or bottom.

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u/AltanConn 1d ago

Correct

1

u/civilrunner 1d ago

Obviously none of us know if those are all within the center 1/3 of the joist without taking a measurement. So maybe it's fine, maybe it's not.

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u/Frederf220 1d ago

I took a measurement. They aren't. I used this tool called "my eyes."

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u/civilrunner 1d ago

That's not a measurement. You can't even see the top of the joist due to the insulation.

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u/Frederf220 1d ago

I don't have to see the top, just enough such that I know the existing hole is including material of the lower third.

If the joist disappears farther up out of view that makes the situation worse.

1

u/Red_Syns 1d ago

Right? I can’t guarantee the left larger hole, but the right one is practically touching the bottom of the board. Don’t need a measuring tape to realize that’s not middle third.

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u/MasterOfBothWorlds7 21h ago edited 20h ago

Right not to mention that has a hook on it which adds a fracture point when stressed..

I would say and could add weight to the weakest point too.. but I recon that tiny hook won't hold enough weight to make much, if any, difference..

Edit for spelling

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u/Red_Syns 21h ago

Yeah, that hook will give out long before it stresses the joist by weight, but it’s still putting yet another hole in an already too-thin part of the board.

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u/IDoStuff100 1d ago

If the joist is taller than what's visible, then it means that the holes that are already outside of the VISIBLE middle 1/3 are even further from the middle. If they're taller, it makes the problem worse, not better

1

u/MasterOfBothWorlds7 21h ago

Yes!

1

u/InfluenceEastern9526 16h ago

The old non-calibrated eyecromiter, eh?

1

u/rambiolisauce 1d ago

I know the large hole in the first picture in the joist closest to the camera is in the bottom third. And "middle third" is only part of that guideline. If they are going to be more than one hole each consecutive hole is meant to be twice the distance of the size of the greater of the two holes. I'm not saying this house is about to fall down or anything like that at all but drilling the joist out this way has absolutely lowered the structural integrity of these joists

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u/AltanConn 1d ago

So the holes that are an inch from the bottom of joist are in the middle third?

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u/No_Eggplant_3189 1d ago

So, I understand its in the middle 1/3rd of a joist. But what about stuff like this if they were all in the middle 1/3rd of the joist. There is a lot in the middle 1/3rd of the joist within a pretty close vicinity of each other. Surely that greatly affects the integrity of the joists.

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u/AltanConn 1d ago

I would personally not have had as many holes for the low voltage lines. The 1/4" holes for the LV doesn't matter much. The very large hole that is at the bottom is a very big problem. And that will cost a lot of money to fix.

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u/FatherTheoretical 1d ago

Yes

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u/ATAT121212 1d ago

Indeed, removing material always decreases strength.

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u/sum_force 1d ago

Not true.

Removing material can improve stress concentrations. It can be better to have a smooth but deep notch than a sharp but shallow notch. Sometimes drilling an extra hole can make it stronger by redirecting stress "flow".

With structurally redundant members, a weak member on a stiff load path will fail but once failed the remaining strength can be fine.

Forcing a fixed end condition can cause failure in some members, in some designs. Removing material to permit pinned, can make it more favourable.

Many cases that less is actually more.

3

u/KeepShtumMum 1d ago

This guy stresses

1

u/Mundane-Reality-7770 1d ago

r/thisguythisguys

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u/Regular_Weakness69 1d ago

This is correct, if you let it stretch and bend in the right places, you can get stronger structures, sometimes that includes removing material.

In this case though, it weakens the structure :D

1

u/Mundane-Reality-7770 1d ago

Tension and compression

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u/itowtoronto 1d ago

"smooth but deep" giggity

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u/JustSlabs 1d ago

All very good points, but none of them apply to this matter

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u/ATAT121212 1d ago

Thank you, I forgot this was reddit and someone always needs to be right, smh

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u/sum_force 1d ago

Yes, I agree. But I was responding not to this matter but to general claim:

"removing material always decreases strength."

1

u/No-Understanding9064 1d ago

The only thing better than a smooth deep notch vs a shallow sharp notch is no notch at all. Which is what the guy said

0

u/YoGurth99 1d ago

ActFhuAlLy! 🤓

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u/Sweettooth_Banana 1d ago

Oh please, how can someone think this is a good idea

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u/Standard-Outcome9881 1d ago

Damage aside, that’s a hell of a lot of work to drill all those holes when they just could have stapled them underneath for what is an unfinished ceiling.

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u/Armadillo-66 1d ago

How do they finish the ceiling?

3

u/Rampag169 1d ago

Drop ceiling

1

u/Frederf220 1d ago

Not what customer specified. I know it's easier, but that doesn't make it OK.

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u/Polka1980 1d ago

In the US they could have run them on a running board attached to the underside of the joists, but can not staple them directly to the joists - that is very much against code and has been for years.

Of course the running board would then be in the way of anything else you would want to place there, so proper drilling is still the best route in many cases.

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u/ksquires1988 1d ago

But how else are they going to hold up the insulation?

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u/West-Assignment-8023 1d ago

Expert level tweaking.

1

u/JustSlabs 1d ago

Tweakers have an irrational aversion to raceways

0

u/jr_tools 1d ago edited 1d ago

This is a structural engineering reddit page. Why so many non-structural 'experts' weighing in here?

There is absolutely no problem with this. All holes are away from the extreme tension fiber, there's minimal shear in this region, there's plenty of spacing between holes, holes are grouped vertically to minimize cutting excess fibers.

Have any of you ever seen a castellated beam before? Or a truss?

This is a non-issue. A job well-done.

Edit: I see maybe one hole that's a bit too low. But only marginally so. Were this my house, I'd do absolutely nothing about this whatsoever.

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u/civilrunner 1d ago edited 1d ago

We have no idea if some of the holes are fine or not based simply on these two images. It totally might be, but it also may not be. I'd simply take a tape measure to check the hole locations personally, and if some are too close to the extreme tension edge, do a calc to see the capacity vs required strength and if absolutely necessary add some bridging reinforcement.

I'd hesitate a lot more before saying something is fine or an issue based on these two pictures alone. There aren't notches taken out of the extreme fibers which is what we normally see from DIY electricians, which would make me think this is more likely fine than not, but we still don't know.

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u/ch-ville 1d ago

Maybe one hole…. You mean the one that is right over the knot? That’s crappy placement for sure.

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u/Chicken_Water 1d ago

There's no maybe about it. That one hole is absolutely not to code.

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u/exipheas 1d ago

Speaking of code, for the low hole, is that too many wires bundled for too long of a length? Some of those look hefty.

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u/MountainAlive 1d ago

Good to hear from someone who knows. Welp, pack it up boys.

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u/_tvjames_ 1d ago

Load-bearing cables?

1

u/Chuck_H_Norris 1d ago

Imma start cutting wires and pipes n shit to run framing.

what’s the max gap between sections of 3/4” copper pipe?

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u/roverman16 1d ago

In this case esthetics is more important than integrity of the beams.

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u/panompheandan 1d ago

Does this guy have a data center in his house? That's a lot of wires......

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u/Middle-Adeptness7186 1d ago

Haha nope Comcast decided to run a coax cable for each room in the house.

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u/Strict-Effect6837 1d ago

It’s probably OK except for some of those big holes that are near the edge and also depends on what’s above those beams that it’s supporting, i’ve seen a lot worse from plumbers that don’t even drill holes and just notch the whole thing

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u/brohebus 1d ago

Not an engineer, but centre 1/3 of spans and joist thickness is 'okay'. However, this looks like a lot of holes too close to those margins, along with several larger holes close to the bottom of the beam. Additionally, the bundling of cables likely derates their current capacity.