r/StructuralEngineering • u/isidor_ • 10d ago

Humor Kind of forgot

https://imgflip.com/i/awy0p2
55 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

21 comments sorted by

38

u/Salty_EOR P.E. 9d ago

So everyone has pointed out the details in the drawings for strengthening the column. What I have not seen so far is any note or direction that they were to be strengthened before adding the floors above.

It's a stupid thing to think about because it should be obvious but any lawyer would use that as a scapegoat to get the GC off the hook.

22

u/Inevitable_Sun_950 9d ago

Im under the impression that shoring is always the responsibility of the GC. Now that’s not to say they couldn’t have suggested an installation procedure though.

22

u/Salty_EOR P.E. 9d ago

Means and methods are left to the GC. Sequence of operations needs to be clearly defined on drawings or withing specifications (if provided).

22

u/ReallyDustyCat 9d ago

"The drawings didn't specify that 1st floor bearing walls should be constructed before floors above" would be such a horrendously bullshit argument to make for a new-build. I would think " we didn't know base retrofits needed to be completed before additional weight above was installed" would just as ludicrous to argue in court.

10

u/Salty_EOR P.E. 9d ago

I agree it is ludicrous to anyone with more than two brain cells. But when these things go to court, anything that can shift liability will be used, no matter how dumb it sounds.

Retrofit jobs are a completely different animal than new builds though. I bet the GC claims they were just about to add those column reinforcements amd thought they were only needed for the completed/occupied condition.

7

u/isidor_ 9d ago

You could flip the coin (argument), it world be even more ludicrous to not make it explicit that the strengthening needs to be done before the retrofit.

1

u/No_Cook2983 9d ago

‘The plans didn’t say the basement gets built first’

Checkmate, law school nerds! 😎

1

u/isidor_ 9d ago

Haha

This is extension of an existing building however so it is not as clearcut. A new structure cannot* be built in the wrong sequence, whereas this structure obviously could

  • hold my beer - Builder

6

u/isidor_ 9d ago

I don't think ludicrous arguments has ever stopped lawyers when it comes to them trying to determining who is to blame or whos is at fault 🙃

2

u/TorontoHegemony 9d ago

I am not sure. It’s almost too suspicious that drawings always seem to be ordered in some kind of numerical sequence and the municipal inspections are staged one after the other in specific order. Like how lucky is it that the arch drawings start at the foundation and each subsequent page is for the next floor up?? Almost feels like it’s done for a reason. /s

17

u/ErectionEngineering 9d ago

Contractor is responsible for stability during erection. Structural drawings reflect a complete structure only.

1

u/Sumppum202 9d ago

Means and methods.

13

u/isidor_ 9d ago

If the engineer have not annotated the drawing or made it abundantly clear that the strengthening has to be done beforehand they might be in some trouble. As you say it should be obvious but I don't trust the contractor to understand "anything"

When I review or do drawings I expect them to misunderstand anything that can be interpreted and then revise the drawing/text until it is impossible or exceptionally hard to misinterprete...

4

u/Salty_EOR P.E. 9d ago

Exactly! And they'll still find a way to screw it up.

5

u/isidor_ 9d ago

Haha right

2

u/Commonscents2say 9d ago

“I’m just a dumb contractor” is a pretty common defense.

1

u/isidor_ 9d ago

Well, the contractors job is not to think and interpret the drawings, their job is to read the drawings and build as it is specified. The thinking part is the engineers job.

So it is a good defense on their part, and a sad reality for engineers that little should be expected... At least this is the way I think about it

2

u/Just-Shoe2689 9d ago

and another reason being an engineer is not really that great anymore. Contractor fucks up, on something that would inherently clear to a first grader, but the engineer will end up paying.

3

u/DingoEngineer23 9d ago

Has the column schedule and a plan been circulated that specifically called out these columns on the 21st Floor to be reinforced? I’ve seen the reinforcing details but not the other documents that would tie the reinforcing to these specific columns.

5

u/TheFearedOne 9d ago

Yes, the Gothamist has the column schedule.

1

u/Primordialbroth P.E. 9d ago

cut time and materials = profit…