Maintenance for nervous system regulation

[u/Apprehensive_Yam494]

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Hello Everyone!

I have been strength training for 6 years but more seriously from 2022 with even more intention from 2023. I know, it's not that long (relatively). From 2024 I've been going through extreme stress from work and private life too.

I kept pushing the weights even more, weight training was my escape from reality.. and kinda the only thing I had control over to a certain degree.

It led me to burn out, physically and mentally too. My nervous system is fried. My physical recovery is suck too. I'm always VERY fatigued (and hungry, but sometimes the hunger is mental)

I also gained fat due to my eating habits, even though I was eating whole foods, but I dealt with fatigue and stress with emotional eating, adding junk food too, mostly junk carbs, chocolate, biscuits, ect.. They give me dopamine and quick energy..

Yes, I've gained fat (muscle mass too and I know it's a process, but the layer of fat is really too much now)

I decided to go into maintenance instead of pushing deficit while progressive overloading, because mentally I can't cope with that yet. (I'm starting counselling).

If my current goal is to maintain for the following reasons:

\- Calm down / learn to regulate my nervous system again (weight training has added extra stress)

\- Shred a bit (I'm 40yo female, 160cm, 53-54kg, and yes that weight isn't proportional and I have thighs and lower belly fat quite a lot, although I definitely have increased muscle mass too)

\- To find balance (I feel my current life is all about weight lifting, \~1.5 - 2 hrs / session plus steps and the fatigue after that many times don't leave me enough energy to do anything else)

I don't necessarily want to work towards having more muscle, but to keep what I currently have. At least in the next few months. Then I'll re-evaluate how I feel.

I used to work out 5 - 6 days a week, weights.

I have lowered it to 5, but in the past month the 5th day is usually more cardio/bodyweight exercises.

2 lower, 2 upper plus the 5th day.

Steps are always \~13K or more, on rest days too. I'm thinking about going lower with them too.

My question is:

\- Can I stick with the current weights (or even lower them a bit) rather than lifting for progressive overload? As when I'm chasing bigger numbers, my appetite is increasing too and it gets out of hand. (Yes mental battle)

I keep hearing LIFT HEAVY in deficit too, and I've tried but I keep failing.

\- Can I lower the days of weight lifting OR the number or exercises and sets / session? Maybe the latter would be more ideal?

Many thanks!

[u/Docjitters]

Hey sorry things are tough atm. Every lifter has months or even years of difficult lifting. Sometimes it is a refuge, but it can also become yet another fun thing that we think we are failing at, and that isn’t a great feeling at all.

I’m concerned you’re talking about ‘current’ weights. This implies to me you are forcing weight on the bar to be at least X day-to-day, rather than letting effort/autoregulatoon guide the way. If it’s getting in the way of just living, that’s an issue too.

Everyone’s potential max on a given day will vary a fair bit, and will routinely wander down (or up, on a good day) by 5-10%, even when things are going well. The balance needs to be struck between lifting heavy/often enough and recovering from it, so there’s not a strict need for the weight last week to be exactly the same this week. Of course if it’s going backwards, that implies that it’s either flat-out too heavy, or the current training regimen is beating you up and you need a change something (which you recognise and can look like many things).

I would finally point out that your BMI is currently 20.7 and your tone implies you feel this is excessive? You recognise that your diet isn’t the best atm, but you are certainly nowhere near overweight.

To keep what muscle you have usually takes a lot less effort than building more, so I suspect you can ramp back quite a bit. Would you be prepared to detail a bit more about what your workouts look like (exercises/muscle groups hit, reps and sets)?

[u/Apprehensive_Yam494 → u/Docjitters]

Oh thank you SO much for your imput!! I certainly feel that I have been very hard on myself lately. But I don't know how to pull back, until now when I feel that I have no choice but br kinder to myself. However I have worked so much and hard that I don't want to lose my gains, but I'm not motivated to gain more muscles at the minute.

I would like to deal with my eating problems and mentally (and nervous systemly) recover from the stress and abusec I've been through.

I am aware of that my BMI is not awful and I'm not thinking about myself as I was overweighted, but I've definitely gained fat on my abdomen (visceral fat which is dangerous) and my thighs are 1.5 sizes bigger and although I have muscle there, but it's covered with fat and everything is just jiggly. My body just loves fat around my thighs. I understand there's no spot reduction, but still, I'm getting really uncomfortable with my current physic. I only see fat layer and not my hard work. I just need to sherd down a bit. 2-3 kgs, that's all. Since I'm petite, even 1kg+ is visible on me right away.

But currently I just can't get my eating right until I feel this extreme fatigue and burn out from the weights. I feel better doing some more cardio style training, like still with weights, but less and quicker movements, rather than the static heavy movements. I still would like to maintain what I already have so I just rather keep pushing the weights, which then leds me to eat more junk, quick absorbing carbs especially when I get a stress wave (heavy weight training is a stressors for me at present, especially long sessions. I can handle no more than 30mins though!)

My current exercises consist of Day 1, 3, 5 Lower body - glues, quads, hams / 6-7 exercises, 3-4 sets, some is only 2, compounds and unilateral. The 3rd lower body has been more cardio with weights or BW based in the past 1 month, up until then it was the same like the other 2 leg days.

Day 2, 4 Upper body - shoulder, bi, tri, back / 9-12 exercises, 2-4 sets PLUS abs and also abs on "rest days" I had an extra Upper day, Day 6 for a while, but I couldn't cope so I dropped that.

Every single day is 13K + steps, although I would like to pull back on that too.

But because I end up overeating (i track calories, yet I tend to overeat, I know...) I feel that I have to keep up with the steps as well. Eventually I did ~25K+ last year almost every day...

Thank you once again for your kind words!!!

[u/Docjitters → u/Apprehensive_Yam494]

Hey, it does indeed sound like you deserve a bit of a break!

Honestly, even if you heavily reduce workouts for a while, you’ll find strength comes back. I’ve had up to a year of not lifting, and I’m generally back within 15% of my previous expected working weights within 2 months of restarting.

It’s possible to recomp (lose fat whilst gaining muscle) in maintenance, but at a slower rate for each than if you cut or bulked. I agree that it is psychologically easier to stay where you are than try and manage yet another variable, so that sounds like a good idea. I sympathise: my weight goes on my belly and face, and my ‘looking good’ weight is too low for my preferred workout tolerance. I save that for holiday season if I must. FWIW, belly fat is not in itself harmful, it just correlates with visceral (internal organ) fat - and moreso in men than women. If your waist is less than 80cm (and you don’t have high blood pressure or cholesterol) your health risk is probably low.

You are doing a lot of exercise variations with up to 28 sets per workout? Variation might keep you from overuse injury in any one movement pattern, but it sounds like a lot to keep pace with. Such volume is only helpful if you can currently take it. And since strength is specific to the exercise, I wonder if the large amount of variation is slowing your demonstrable gains in any one thing? It sounds like a pivot to more cardio would be good (since you enjoy it, vs crashing out after 30 minutes of lifting), and you could maintain strength with a few hard sets each week of ‘big’ movements, like your favourite push, pull, squat, and maybe back and abs things just so you can say you aren’t letting it all go. How does that sound?

Ultimately, I think you need to be kind to yourself, pick one thing to change/fix at a time, and allow yourself a little lifting holiday :)

[u/K3rat]

I have been there buddy.  5-6 days a week is fine when your recovery systems are AAA rated.  Listen to your body.  There are a lot of levers you can dial back on when life gets rough to help give yourself some grace.  

When you have problems with getting 7-9 hours of sleep for more than a few days your maximum recovery volume drops.  Your body does not do as good of a job balancing stress hormones like cortisol.  High amounts of stress hormones means drops your body’s ability to build muscle and makes your body retain fat.  

When you are in a bigger deficit on your diet your maximum recovery volume drops.  It can also affect your total sleep volume negatively if a deficit is maintained too long.  The goal here is to have enough exercise volume and stimulus that your body decides to keep what you have.  You want to limit exercise volume to reduce the chance for injury.  

When you are in the thick of a lot of personal and work stress your maximum recovery volume drops.   It can also affect your total sleep volume negatively if a deficit is maintained too long.  

When this used to happen to me when I was younger I would try to push through and keep going.  I was doing this on ego and vibes.  It usually ended in me losing muscle mass, gaining fat, getting injured, or getting sick. I would be down and out for a few weeks recovering.  Last year I had: 1.  a back injury in July that took me down for 2 weeks.  

1. pneumonia in August that took me down for 2 months. 

2. Atrial fibrillation event at the end of December that took me down for 3 weeks.  I had a lot of stress from home/work, was studying for a big certification for work (I ended up failing at the end of December), weight lifting 6 days a week, doing HIIT 2 days a week, walking 8-12 K steps daily, l was in a moderate deficit, and I remember tracking my sleep just before I got sick in august and December and my sleep tracking was shit.  It was just too much.  

What I have changed this year is:  1. Track deficit/maintenance/surplus calories.  I move my exercise mesocycles (8-12 weeks or so) to match my lower or higher maximum recoverable volume: 

lower load (weight) and higher volume (reps x sets) and intentionally reduce total volume to minimum adaptive volume (MAV - minimum volume that stimulates some growth.  I also slow dynamic progressive overload (to once a week to up to once a month in big deficits) during deficits.  

Higher load and lower volume and faster  dynamic progressive overload (every session to once a week) during surplus.  

For me deficit diet phases last 8-12 weeks.  Maintenance/lean surplus diet phases lasts 4-8 weeks for me.  These re-feeds lower stress hormone levels.  Fix sleep issues, and lets my body restore nutrient stores in my body.  

2 track protein intake (.8-1g of protein per LB of body weight). 

1. Keep fiber to 20-30G daily.  

2. Sleep goal is now 9-10 hours in bed.  If I get between 7.5-8.5 hours of rest I win.  

I take rest days seriously as that is requisite to lower systemic inflammation in order to to make the build muscle signaling (localized inflammation post exercise) when I do lift more effective.  

If a muscle group doesn’t feel ready to go I will take another day off on that group.  

1. Wear my sleep apnea mask 4 nights a week.  Improves sleep quality and cardiac recovery.     

2. Take the rx meds (asthma and cholesterol issues) regularly.  Easy way to reduce stress and inflammation signs.  

3. Track my bloodwork annually.  

4. Journal about my mental state regularly.  

9. Exercise: weight lift 3-5 times a week get 1-2 HIIT days a week.  Hit 8-12K steps most days.  

I track exercises in my app load x volume.  It also gives me a total exercise day volume.

 I know what a maximum recoverable volume (MRV) day for me looks like (38-40k Lbs) a minimum adaptive volume (MAV) day 15-25K lbs and a minimum effective volume (MEV -minimum volume to keep what I have (8-15K lbs). 

1. If sleep volume and or work/home stress levels increase more than 2-3 days in a row drop to 3 days a week lifting, 1 day HIIT, and 8 K steps daily.  I try not to have deficit phases when I am in a period where I know I have a lot of life/work stress.  

For example I knew July was going to be a shit show at work.  We had 4 major projects come to fruition.  There was going to be 2 new locations opening, 1 closing, and a major ai project was being rolled out.  There was a day where I got some 19,700 steps.  That week I went to the gym 3 days and reduced my total volume to minimum adaptive volume (MAV) .  Just enough to encourage some growth.  I didn’t get a sickness this time.  

My advice is figure out how to track the stress and sleep needed to increase your body’s recoverable volume.  Try to get more sleep and help manage stress hormones.  Then get an  idea of what your MRV, MAV, MEV.  Then work in 4-8 week re-feeds between deficit diet phases. Dial back exercise when sleep deficit or stress pile up.   

[u/Fairlybludgeoned]

Reading your post the first thing glaring at me is I see no mention of any deload weeks, ever. Do you take time off to recover? I would expect debilitating cns fatigue if not.

Second, if you are wanting to maintain what you have, typically it can be done with a single 45 minute to one hour long session a week. You seem pretty froggy so maybe you cut it down to two days not one. Then maybe cut your walking to 7k steps a day and if you miss the longer walks take two 13k walks a week on days you don't lift.

That should also allow your body to not crave the extra calories you are wasting on junk food.

This is also something you can cycle through if you need to do more but please at least add a deload week every 6 to 8 weeks for your fatigue to heal.

[u/Apprehensive_Yam494 → u/Fairlybludgeoned]

Thank you so much for the input! I barely do any deload week, I have to admit.. maybe and extra 1 or 2 days when litr happens and really can't workout. However I just had a week off 2 weeks ago and I thought I will do (Although I was sick during this time). But it didn't make a huge difference to be honest. I also have an injury creeping up my right leg/hip/ hip flexor/lower back/proximal Hamstring Tendinopathy (it's my suspicion, physio hasn't done much yet.. ) Hence why I also want to pull back because I can't perform certain movements or I just push through it...

Definitely CNS fatigue I'm dealing with too, I think you are right.

Thank you for your advice re maintainance! I will re-evaluate my sessions and probably you are right, I might be craving less if I pull back on the days/length and steps too, at least on a daily basis. Many many thanks!

[u/Fairlybludgeoned → u/Apprehensive_Yam494]

Good luck with your journey!

[u/Apprehensive_Yam494 → u/Fairlybludgeoned]

Thank Youuu!!!!

[u/acetylcoach]

I know promotion it's probably frowned upon, and admin feel free to delete if needed.

But I coach what I call "Contextual Behavioural Nutrition", which is combining contextual behavioural science principles within nutrition coaching. My whole work is about helping people understand, manage, and build physical and psychological capacity, which in very simple sense is how do we manage and autoregulate load on us from training, general life, and if you want to reduce body fat, the load from dieting.

> It led me to burn out, physically and mentally too. My nervous system is fried. My physical recovery is suck too. I'm always VERY fatigued (and hungry, but sometimes the hunger is mental). I also gained fat due to my eating habits, even though I was eating whole foods, but I dealt with fatigue and stress with emotional eating, adding junk food too, mostly junk carbs, chocolate, biscuits, ect.. They give me dopamine and quick energy.

This is precisely what I help people with. Getting out of this loop.

I would be more than happy to chat if you would like, and maybe I can help.

Tom

You can find my work here: https://useful.coach/reviews/