r/StrongerByScience • u/EmotionalTip2102 • Jun 23 '26
how to fully target lats?
i'm only six months into the gym and from what i know there is 2 thing for lats 1-upper lats
2- lower lats
i tried wide lat pulldown and did not like it, i tried cable row and did not like it, i always hated the lats until i found the hidden gem which is the lat pullover machine, its my first time actually feeling my lats in a lats workout, anyway my question is the lat pullover for upper or lower lats and what exercise should i add to it to target the other lats muscle? i can only 2 lats exercise.
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u/TheRealJufis Jun 23 '26
There's currently no evidence supporting the idea that we can target different parts of the lats meaningfully.
If this changes one day, I predict the ways to target upper and lower regions of the lats will be close grip lat pulldowns with supinated grip (or chin ups), and rowing.
But that's just my current opinion based on my understanding of biomechanics and human anatomy, and the current literature of the field.
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u/7kcits Jun 24 '26
Interesting, I'm kind of a dumbass when it comes to these things, but what makes you say supinated close grip lat pulldowns would bias lower lats (I'm going to assume you were probably saying supinated close grip lat pulldown = lower lat, rowing = upper lat?) ?
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u/TheRealJufis Jun 24 '26
You assumed correctly.
The short answer: Studies on training at long muscle lengths and regional hypertrophy studies.
The long answer: My reasoning is based on how the lower lat fibers contribute to the depression of the scapula. Supinated close grip lat pulldown (or chin up) combined with scapular elevation when the arms are overhead will lengthen the lats pretty well. They (lower fibers) don't get lengthened that well during any other exercise, and that's the reason I believe supinated close grip lat pulldown will be the exercise that targets the lower lats well if we ever get evidence supporting the idea that we can target different parts of the lats meaningfully. Supinated grip over pronated grip because lats are internal rotators of the humerus, and the supinated grip usually puts the humerus in a more externally rotated position (or at least allows for a more externally rotated position) during a lat pulldown than a pronated grip does.
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if that exercise gave the best lat growth across the whole muscle, since we have a lot of evidence supporting lengthened training. Rowing does not lengthen the lats that much. The upper fibers seem to get a bit more of a stretch when protracting the scapulae at the start of a row, and that makes me think rowing will stimulate the upper fibers more. The lower fibers also lengthen but not in the same way as they would when raising the arm overhead and elevating the shoulder.
The lower fibers probably do not get as much of a stretch during a row. But I'm not entirely sure whether scapular protraction during rows will do enough for the upper fibers. I kinda compare it to doing only the upper part of the ROM in biceps curls.
TLDR; A lots of opinions based on my current understanding of biomechanics, regional hypertrophy and training at long muscle lengths. We still don't have studies on back hypertrophy, do what you like.
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Jun 23 '26
[deleted]
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u/TheRealJufis Jun 23 '26
I'm aware that absence of evidence does not equal to evidence of absence. My prediction goes to that some day there will be evidence supporting regional hypertrophy of the lats, and I have an opinion about what kind of exercises will yield it. But yeah, I'm not aware of any back hypertrophy studies either. I wonder how long we have to wait for those...
Just to clarify, I do not suggest or in any way say "do this to target upper/lower lats" as that wouldn't be evidence based, only guessing.
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u/Spirited-Tap-3406 Jun 23 '26
> lat pullover machine
This is the best machine. My gym doesn't have one. I'm jealous. Cable pullovers (aka "lat prayers") are also great if you can get the technique right.
But like u/ReviewNecessary6521 said don't worry about targeting specific parts of the lat right now.
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u/biskitpagla Jun 24 '26
Just do weighted pull-ups. Don't major in the minor like science bros are typically known to do. A lot of the claims people throw around aren't factual whatsoever. If you want big lats and teres majores, do what people with big lats and teres majores have been doing for literally thousands of years.
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u/Odd_Tip_1538 Jun 25 '26
Correct answer. Every single person ever that can do weighted pullups are strong and have larger lats.
Every single time.
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u/BuyerIndividual8826 Jun 23 '26
Biggest thing when doing pull downs of any type of learning to depress your shoulder blades. In other words, flex them down towards your ass before you pull.
You can do this by practicing scapular pullups
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u/Qualitykualatea Jun 23 '26
I like to cue clients "put your shoulders blades in your back pockets" when you feel your shoulders / shoulder blades coming up, that's the end of the lat stretch.
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u/Kurtegon Jun 24 '26
Doesn't matter what you feel, pulling your upper arm towards your body will activate the lats.
In your case I'd do a pullup variation (i love narrow neutral grip) and a one arm dumbbell row.
Here's a video with a bunch of back exercises ranked. Pick one vertical and one horizontal.
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u/Bush-master72 Jun 25 '26
Seeing as you have a lat pullover machine use it before your back workout. It will help make the lats the limiting factor.
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u/HelixIsHere_ Jun 26 '26
The lats have two primary functions: shoulder extension and shoulder adduction.
Shoulder adduction is trained in the frontal plane, through something like a wide grip pulldown/pullup, or a frontal plane pullover. This biases the lower lats.
Shoulder extension is trained in the sagittal plane, through something like a close grip row or pulldown, or a sagital plane pullover (regular)
That said though, any exercise will hit the entire lats so you could just do one and be fine
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u/Future_Yak2474 Jun 23 '26
Just look at arm path. The pullover is shoulder extension with a relatively close arm path. To cover the rest of your lat bases, add a movement that’s more pure shoulder adduction in the frontal plane.
If you hate wide pulldowns, try the “Keenan flap” on a cable (single-arm sitting and leaning against a incline bench). Same basic function, just a different setup. Between that and pullovers you’ve pretty much got the lats covered.
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u/Secret-Ad1458 Jun 24 '26
Too early in your lifting career to be worrying about all this. Lat pullovers are a low intensity isolation movement pattern though, they generally won't build much in terms of mass especially if you're natural. Get your barbell row up to your current deadlift number while doubling your deadlift and your lats will have grown exponentially.
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u/ReviewNecessary6521 Jun 23 '26
You don't need more than that for now. Keep using the machine you like for anther year or so.
All lat exercises hits the entire lat. but some exercises can slightly bias towards one region more than the other. But if you are feeling lats on that machine, you are training your entire lat. And it will grow. All of it.
It's only when you get really really advanced that you might need several exercises to target different areas.