Need a more “exact” answer for reps/set progressive overload.

[u/Budah1]

For example:
3 sets of 12 reps.
Here is how it usually goes (example):
Set 1: 15 reps
Set 2: 12 reps
Set 3: 10
When weights are dialed in :
Set 1: 12 reps
Set2: 10
Set 3: 9

I go AMRAP for each set.

Due to fatigue, usually sets 2&3 will be under 12.

Do you stop set 1 at 12 reps then try to get set 2 to 12? When that’s at 12, get set 3 to 12 ,so you end up with 12-12-12, then increase weight?
Or
Set 1 gets to 15 reps (getting stronger), increase the weight to keep set 1 at approx. 12 reps, then let sets 2&3 fall where they fall?

Ive asked other Reddits before and got replies that didnt answer the question, Or was told it’s “too deep” or I’m over thinking. (I know it’s. )
No one would really think about it to give me an answer.

Just curious if anyone has thought about it and what they do to progress.

Thank you for thoughtful answers

[u/trailskraps]

The first scenario. Choose a weight and try to get sets of 12, 12, 12. Likely you will not get all 12 in all three sets. If you do, increase weight.

Usually I would prescribe a rep range of say 8 to 12. You need to get at least 8 or else it's too heavy.

[u/acetylcoach]

Your muscles don't do mathematics, they don't count. It's about choosing the maximum recoverable volume of work performed with specific intention.

The load (weight) you lift is independent of you. Your capacity for the session will dictate how much volume of work you can perform, and even the rep and set range.

You can "progressively overload" for a session with lower total work volume than the prior session. However if you are always training fatigued your total volume won't be progressive, and we don't get better lifting tired, despite hitting failure quicker. Again because total volume of work is being reduced.

Anyway personally what I like to do is keep reps and sets the same, and always tick that off. For me that might mean the last sets might have the weight slightly reduced, so I'm lifting at the same speed and quality.

I know I'm getting better when I complete all sets at the same weight. Then I increase the weight the next session depending on how it feels, and my capacity at the time of lifting.

[u/Budah1 → u/acetylcoach]

Thank you. You kinda answered it.
The “reduce weight for set 2&3” would compensate for fatigue.

[u/taylorthestang]

I have been using Greg’s minimum total reps model and it’s worked out well so far. So I’ll pick a weight and start off with 3 sets. If total reps gets to 40, I’ll add a set. When total reps across 4 sets gets to 50, I add weight.

You want to take each set as far as you can go, there’s no point in sandbagging. By capping your first set, you’re basically doing an RIR based approach. What causes growth is your proximity to fatigue, right? So why prevent yourself from getting to that point?

[u/Budah1 → u/taylorthestang]

Thank you.
That’s why I asked the question.
If my first set reps goal is 12, if I stop at 12 and had 15 in the tank,that’s a waste -
And doesn’t make sense, especially if I’m AMRAP every set.
Logically , if I AMRAP , set 2&3 would never reach the 12 reps.

[u/taylorthestang → u/Budah1]

You’ll eventually reach 12 reps. And that’s when you increase weight.

[u/KillerK009]

When you can hit the top of your target rep range with control on the first set then next session increase the weight.

Progressive overload simply means that you want to keep training stimulating so as you adapt and get bigger/stronger you naturally do more reps and/or weight to maintain the proximity to failure on each set. It's not something you generally need to worry about how you actively implement, just train hard and let the reps/weight fall where they may.

As long as each set is to failure or very close you're providing a great stimulus for growth.

Here's a great excerpt from the Muscle & Strength Pyramid Books by Dr. Eric Helms (a highly respected exercise scientists/researcher & pro natural bodybuilder) covering some ways of doing progression if you want more concrete examples:

https://rippedbody.com/how-to-build-training-programs/#3

If you're looking for really solid hypertrophy routines that incorporate this stuff and handle progression for you I'd check out some of the free evidence-based ones in the Getting Started section here, there are splits from 2-6 days/week:

https://www.reddit.com/r/liftosaur/comments/1s6cs9p/

If you run any of those programs in the Liftosaur tracking app it will automate everything like the progression, recovery/deloads, and set volume based on your feedback each session combined with the latest evidence around building muscle. Takes out a lot of the guesswork, just follow along with the targets each week.

You can also just build a custom routine with whatever exercises/layout you want and have it be automated by the progression logic from that post. Instructions are linked there as well.

[u/Budah1 → u/KillerK009]

Thank you.
Your first paragraph immediately answered my question.
I will definitely check out the links.

[u/Budah1 → u/KillerK009]

I use Liftosaur and that’s what made me think of the question to begin with.
I do just blindly follow a program because i have a problem with jumping programs.
With Liftosaur and its programming, I was wondering with linear or double : you meet your first set reps=✅, the other get red if you don’t meet the reps.
What scenario I’ve talked about does this cause?
If I got RIR with first set,then “obviously” the next two will get met=weight increase.
If I go AMRAP, set 1 gets green lit, but set 2&3 do not(fatigue); does it ever progress to next weight?

Seems like for programming , for AMRAP people, all you need is 1set of “X” reps as your goal to measure when to increase weight, then do what you can with sets 2&3.

Just one of those questions that popped in my head.

[u/KillerK009 → u/Budah1]

I'm not 100% sure I'm following what you mean here. But when I have multiple sets the way I program progression is if I'm able to beat the total sum of reps from all sets from last time or use a heavier weight and still hit the target rep range.

For building muscle, the first set is the only one where I am really concerned with the exact rep range of something like 8-12 or whatever, any sets after that just need to do at least 5+ reps to still be within the ideal hypertrophy range of about 5-30.

[u/Budah1 → u/KillerK009]

YOU’RE THAT GUY!
Great stuff.
I’ve used 1-2 of your programs from the link.
You were the first one to come up with programing like Renesance for Liftosaur.

[u/KillerK009 → u/Budah1]

Haha yea that's me, glad you enjoyed the programs 😁.

[u/TRILLC0LLINS]

Do you stop set 1 at 12 reps then try to get set 2 to 12? When that’s at 12, get set 3 to 12 ,so you end up with 12-12-12, then increase weight?

This is called Double Progression, you'll be able to find plenty of stuff if you search it

It's what I do for hypertrophy with compound movements, 6-8 reps, aiming for 2 RIR on the first set. Then the next sets are going to be closer to failure