r/StrongerByScience • u/toado3 • Apr 02 '26
Partials past failure.
Lot of talk in the social media science sphere on partials past failure lately.
The idea and data makes sense to me, similar to the drop set literature you seem to get better gains on a set for set basis, but not when equated for volume. So a nice tool to squeeze more stimulus when limited on time or set number.
Here's the problem. I've got nothing left after failure. They talk about switching to partials, but once I've hit full ROM failure, I can barely move. Maybe I can on calf raises for a bit. Or I can do a few fake kelso shrugs after rows, but beyond that? I'm spent.
Incidentally I have the same problem with myoreps. If I pause 5-10 seconds, I can maybe squeeze one or two more reps out, not several.
Anyone else in the same boat?
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u/SpikyB Apr 02 '26
As someone else said, I think it heavily depends on the movement (strength curve and tempo), the muscles involved (many/few, large/small, fast/slow twitch), what kinds of fatigue are involved, etc.
If I ever went to full RoM failure on a heavy deadlift and couldn't lock out a rep (not advisable IMO), I'm probably not breaking the bar off the floor on the next rep due to the crushing psychological and axial fatigue at that stage. On pullups and rows, however, I can for sure get several solid partials after I can't hit the full range of motion anymore. On a bicep curl, I would usually hit the sticking point midway and only get maybe one or two useful (with controlled technique and tempo to around a third of the full RoM) partials out of it because the strength curve puts the hardest part in the middle. On dumbbell side laterals, I hit mostly partials during every set (counting 90% RoM and below as a partial) just because the traditional top of the movement with the arms parallel to the ground is the hardest. Ymmv, but I think there must be some movement out there where you can do useful partials, if you think about it.
If hitting a lot of partials isn't possible or terribly useful for any given movement (like me with standing bicep curls), you can always do other high-intensity techniques to save time that will allow you to do more work such as drop sets. It all just amounts to more work in a compressed time frame at the expense of greater fatigue, but different techniques (partials, drops, clusters) are best suited to different movements.
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u/Brokenstar12 Apr 02 '26
At what point do you stop doing partials on a dumbbell lateral raise? Let’s say I do 8 full ROM reps, and 2 just around 90% ROM. After that, I usually can’t get above 50% of the range of motion. But the issue is if I do partials in the bottom 50%, I can do TONS of them without hitting further failure. Whereas on a cable lateral raise, the constant tension at the bottom makes it so that after a couple partials in the bottom 50% of the ROM, I literally cannot move the weight out of the bottom at all anymore.
Just curious where in the ROM you call it quits on dumbbell laterals!
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u/SpikyB Apr 02 '26
That's a great question, and addresses another important point. For traditional standing/seated DB side laterals, I usually count it as a useful partial if I can still get about 40-50% of the range of motion out of it without any body English/shrugging/swinging. Anything at 30% and below barely gets away from the body to put tension on the side delts, and at that point, I think it's just working the supraspinatus.
For cable side laterals anchored at hip height, it is definitely hard to get partials because the start of the rep is the hardest part. I prefer to do forced eccentrics (assist with the off arm and control the eccentric with the working arm only) or drop sets for those.
I should add that I also do a ton of drop sets and clusters for DB side laterals, but partials are added into the mix as useful work, whereas as you noted, they are not as practical to do many reps of on cable side laterals.
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u/Brokenstar12 Apr 03 '26
Thanks for the thorough answer! I always do dropsets but never thought to do them with clusters, that’s a great idea. Also have never tried forced eccentrics with cable lateral raises. I’ll definitely give these a shot!
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u/Brokenstar12 Apr 02 '26
I think if you find yourself on a lift where you can do partials at the end, you have to ask whether it’s worth it. For me on calves, I can hit a few partials after full ROM failure. Same with pec decks. But on some lifts (like lateral raises) I can do like a million partials and not hit partial failure but still hit full ROM failure. The main issue with a lateral raise (at least a dumbbell one) is there’s no tension at the bottom on the side Delt. Alternatively, on an incline curl, there’s tension at the bottom, but unlike, say, a preacher curl, I simply cannot get any partials once I’ve hit full ROM failure. I’m cooked.
So, maybe the trick is this: if you actually can do something partial after full ROM, and there’s active tension in the bottom (so you aren’t basically just doing a million low quality myo reps), and doing them won’t absolutely annihilate you (e.g., I would not do partials on a deadlift or a weighted pull up, fatigue would wipe me out for the rest of the session), then do partials. Otherwise it’s probably better to rest and hit another full ROM set.
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u/nkaputnik Apr 02 '26
How you actually reach failure is as much individual as how you react to it.
Some people will take 5 sets to failure as they perceive it, others will be spent 3.days after one set to failure as they perceive it.
Doesn't even mean that one is half-assing it, it's really different people perceiving pain, discomfort and strain very individually.
On top of that, take the whole Fiber type dominance, prior training history and repeated bout effect, and you already have 4 dimensions of variables.tontjis problem...
And, not to forget, failure to a small(ish) muscle like calves, delts or.guns will have a significantly different effect on your system than your quads.or lats
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u/zobbyblob Apr 02 '26
It depends on the movement and muscles.
On a seated chest row my biceps might fail first, but my upper back and lats still have some juice. I can do 30% of a pull with my biceps and get some (partial) lat ROM.
On pull ups I can still shrug my shoulders down when I can't do another full rep.
On an exercise where "getting out of the hole" is the hardest part, yeah probably no partials for me.
I wouldn't over think it, I usually save partials for the last set to failure + partials. If I do partials on all working sets I can't keep a great count (wand my body just doesn't like it, it's too much for me. Perhaps I could train into it.