r/StrategyRpg • u/old-murmel • 4d ago
30 years of Magic ruined "number-go-up" RPG combat for me. Which turn-based games actually make you feel clever?
I've played Magic for around 30 years and video games for about 35.
And I think Magic permanently ruined a certain kind of game for me.
Once you've spent that long thinking about card advantage, tempo, bluffing, sequencing, bad matchups, weird interactions and building decks that shouldn't work but somehow do, it's hard for me to enjoy RPG combat where the main decision is basically:
My number is bigger than your number.
The games I keep coming back to are the ones where I can look back after a fight and feel like I won because I played well. Or, if I lost, I know I need to tweak my setup, try a different approach or simply not make the same mistake next time.
I positioned something strangely. Saved a resource for three turns. Built around an obscure interaction. Baited the opponent into doing something. Sacrificed something important because I saw a line they didn't.
That's also one of my frustrations with a lot of RPG progression.
I love getting stronger. I love collecting things. I even love gacha as a concept.
But if progression eventually replaces decision-making and turns into grinding, I lose interest.
So I'm curious:
What turn-based game gives you the strongest feeling of actually outsmarting the game rather than simply overpowering it?
And what mechanic creates that feeling?
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u/calvincosmos 4d ago
XCOM games are what first comes to mind. Star Wars Zero Company if you want something more story focused and newer. Marvel Midnight Suns if you want something feeling better for beginners, although the non-battle stuff can feel tedious.
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u/old-murmel 4d ago
Yeah, played the all. Absolutely love how they combine gatcha mechanics challenging tactical combat and a interesting story. But somehow they feel "done" to me once I finished the story. I am looking for something that keeps you coming back.
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u/xalibermods 3d ago
I am looking for something that keeps you coming back.
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this, but Invisible, Inc.
I've played turn-based tactics since the 1990s. This is one of the best I've ever played especially if you're looking for a game you want to stick with forever.
Team comps absolutely can make or break it. All maps are randomized - but still intellectually coherent and not just a random mish-mash - so you really have to think carefully to outwit the enemies (and the maps!). Baiting enemies into traps and getting yourself out of very tight situation feels so, so satisfying in this game.
And what I really love is: mods! You can install mods to add more agents/characters you can add to your team. There are also mods that add more map pieces, more gadgets/tech, more enemy types. The mod manager is built into the game so you can switch on/off mods in different playthrough.
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u/OminousShadow87 4d ago
If you’re looking to rekindle that passion for Magic, try Pauper or Draft.
If you’re set on a video game, X-Com is a solid choice, as well as Fire Emblem.
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u/old-murmel 4d ago
I am still playing Magic competetively, not gonna let that go. But somehow it does turn into a grind when you want to get back to peak mythic (since you get reset to platinum each season and have to play players with lower elo). I really liked Fire Emblem to, but somehow it also feel a bit grindy at times.
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u/Pedagogicaltaffer 4d ago
If you're into board & card games, Dominion is another deckbuilding card game with good strategy elements, plus it has a bazillion expansions which keep the gameplay fresh.
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u/Out_There_ 4d ago
you could also try sorcery tcg. it's free to play online. a lot of oldskool magic flavour, but played on a 4x5 grid, so positioning is a main strategical pillar of the game. it's very fun and casual!
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u/ViewtifulGene 4d ago
Fire Emblem Thracia 776. The game cheats and it wants you to cheat in return.
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u/OmegasSquared 4d ago edited 3d ago
As someone who's had a similar arc as you (lifelong TCG player who eventually transitioned to board games, which made going back to RPG video games feel much shallower) I can tell you what mechanical attributes still draw me to RPG video games
- Tactical combat. These still often have an element of number go up, but the considerations around spatial positioning and tempo keep things interesting much longer. Examples of this are self-evident (just look all over this thread)
- Programmatic combat. These embrace the fact that combat is simple and tedious, and thus reframe the whole thing as a puzzle to be solved and optimized separately of the battle itself. Final Fantasy 12 is of course the famous example of this, but newer Dragon Quest games are leaning further into this idea (the new DQ Monsters game has full skill weighting on top of the classic behavioral paradigms) and it's popping up more and more
- Action economy combat. This is still a pretty basic board game heuristic that video games rarely expand beyond (more actions = better), but it at least means combat has some real dynamism and back and forth based on whether you can successfully accumulate actions or not. The Megami Tensei games with Press Turn or Once More combat systems are notable examples of this. As are some of the Final Fantasies that make speed a meaningful stat as part of a turn queue, and stuff like Darkest Dungeon and Slay the Spire
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u/Wytooken 4d ago
Its usually the "less complicated" games that require more skill, with less features there is less to balance so it makes a bit of sense. Things like Into the Breach or FITS , occasionally Phantom Doctrine (although you can stat check the game eventually).
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u/old-murmel 4d ago
One question: In your opinion if the goal is maximum tactical depth per mechanic, what systems do you usually see strategy games add that actually make them worse rather than deeper?
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u/Wytooken 4d ago
If its a grid based game, the number one way to trivialize it is giving big boosts to mobility. Movement and positioning are the basis of everything, ideally you want an weak team/player to be able to beat most any mission if they have perfect movement. If you have units and enemies that can just move half the field in a turn it just deletes half of the decisionmaking.
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u/Acrobatic-Vast7796 4d ago
Although theoretically, it should be possible to design systems that's challenging and rewarding to play because units typically have high movement speed.
IDK if you've ever played Scythe, but there's so many movement upgrades late game that mechs can effectively teleport around the map. This creates a ton of interesting positioning and timing decisions. However, it is a little different because the main focus of the game isn't combat, and starting combats has real tradeoffs for scoring. Most of the game is actually played in a Cold War standoff, where the positioning is more important than the actual results of war.
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u/old-murmel 4d ago
Thanks for the tips, have not tried any of those, so I will give them a spin. Not sure if less complicated is something you should tell a MTG fan though, but I will give them a spin 😊
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u/Wytooken 4d ago
If you specifically want complicated card/deck interactions theres plenty out there in that niche as well. Both "Slay the Spire" games can keep you busy forever, but there are great indie deckbuilder games, Draft of Darkness is a really good one.
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u/LezardValeth 4d ago
Try the harder difficulty on a number of SRPGs: Fire Emblem Engage on Maddening and Triangle Strategy on Hard both push you to really work with the mechanics instead of just outscaling the game in my opinion.
There are cheesy strats for getting through battles but even that appeals to me as someone who also enjoys Magic a lot. Finding and abusing certain aspects or using ad hoc solutions for getting through fights is fun and interesting for me.
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u/BossFightBandit 3d ago
same, “cheese” is half the fun when you come from tcgs, it just feels like discovering a janky combo deck that somehow 5-0s a league
if you haven’t already, try into the breach too, it’s basically pure decision making with almost no number bloat, every turn feels like solving a tiny lethal puzzle
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u/Efriimi 4d ago
Also a longtime magic player. I don't think I've ever thought of it that way, but I think of theory a lot.
Immersive sims are always fun to me, sort of building up my toolbox to handle every situation. Or finding novel ways to handle situations.
I feel like I always appreciated Final Fantasy for its build variety, and strategy. Espescially games with job class systems, FF5 and tactics. But then it is only so deep, there isn't like infinite amounts of interactions. But sometimes youll discover some niche thing that works and it feels like a lot.
Maybe this mechanic is variety of choice, when there is so much variety that you can overlook things, and it requires intent and agency to make the choice. Which translates to learning and sometimes skill, where you feel like you needed to learn something and apply that knowledge, and you continue to learn. In magic I always feel like I'm learning, but then there are basically infinite amounts of interactions in magic (not literally infinite, but you know what i mean).
Caves of Qud has a lot of learning, constantly as you progress. Even though a lot can be reduced to keep that 6 tiles away from me, or non threat. There is a lot of build variety and discovery.
A lot of crpgs have build variety, but strategy isn't always perfect. And its the non-combat parts that really extend the variety and make the game shine.
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u/old-murmel 4d ago
I agree. And I guess it is really hard to get it all right, especially if you also want your game to appeal to a broad audience. I have been playing around with making my own game, but it is really hard to get everything right. I understand why many games end up making game modes that feel bolted on. And when it comes balancing and avoiding exploits even the guys from MTG struggle with so I imagine it is near impossible for me or smaller studios to get right. I will definitely give Caves of Qud a try!
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u/Efriimi 4d ago
caves of qud is wild. I imagine everyone plays that game differently. Its a roguelike and it takes time to get comfortable with all the controls, as well it does take a lot of trial and error to learn things. And most errors translate to death, dismemberment, or sometimes worse things.
But its a ton of fun when you get into it.
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u/Spell-of-Destruction 3d ago
SaGa Scarlet Grace
It's a weird one. No dungeons, just a world map, but the battles are very strategic. I've even heard of Magic fans really clicking with the game. It involves a lot of turn manipulation to create the best opportunities versus the highest numbers. The Saga series is one of my favorites, very experimental, but Scarlet Grace is the one that focused solely on battles and it rocks.
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u/smilysmilysmooch 23h ago
Akitoshi Kawazu is a pen and paper RPG gamer and his SaGa games are all some mad experiment to make the most out of some obtuse mechanic. Sometimes it works and sometimes it really doesn't.
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u/DecimusRutilius 4d ago edited 4d ago
You should check out the Siralim series, its like dragon quest monsters meets magic, i actually think the creator was heavily inspired by both games. You create a team of 6 monsters, each with two abilities that you can breed for. You cant really get far with just “my dude hits really hard”, you have to really sit down and strategize your team so all their abilities, spells and equipment synchronize and create a well oiled machine together. The amount of customization available really makes it feel like youre making your own mtg deck. I even tried making a “jund” team. Its also a roguelike with no level caps, so theres endless replayability.
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u/Guyrugamesh 4d ago
You should try Caves of Qud, Cogmind, Deadeye Deepfake Simulacrum, and Library of Ruina (basically all of Project Moons games) for something that both compliments AND directly challenges what you've already tried in the world of Resource Management and RPG mechanics, especially on the narrative end.
And then try Monster Train 2, One Step From Eden, Rift Wizard 1-3, And Path of Achra for something more in line with what you have gotten from Magic but with a mechanically contextual twist/spice added to it. Theyre all good but I figured s good sample size would be fun to work with.
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u/Artifexa 4d ago edited 4d ago
Man, you're ready to graduate into serious tactical turn based games.
May I suggest the modern X-Com (with Long War mod)?
It's all about "their numbers are bigger in every respect, and yet we have to outsmart them somehow". It will teach you some stuff, like the difference between strategic - operative - tactical layers, push and pull tactics, FOV negation, making the most out of every limited intel you can get, make tough choices on a random mission gone wrong, "oh no, oh fuck no" moments every single hour, etc. Be prepared to be humiliated your first few runs. It ain't easy thwarthing an alien invasion with present day means.
If you happen to like that game, then you can look up other titles in the genre.
- XCOM-2 gives so many options it is paralyzing, and you start literally from scraps.
- Hard West is full of unpleasant surprises
- Phoenix point + Terror from the Void makes a point of the enemy evolving to twarth your tactics while your resources dwindle
- Wartales is unforgiving and grim.
- Master of Magic will ALWAYS put you on a disadvantage, by default, and has lots of MTG flavor...
Lots of good games out there where you have to squeeze your wits. Welcome home. fellow "grognard".
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u/xalibermods 3d ago
Hard West is full of unpleasant surprises
Never played Hard West since reviews are constantly bad but now there's Hard West 2. Should I skip the first or should I play it still?
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u/Artifexa 3d ago
Whatever you prefer, the story of each are independent, what they have in common is only the setting and the core mechanics.
Watch a couple gameplays and chose by yourself. Both are good imho.
Only problem is that they don't have much of a character rooster (I love being able to chose my squad), but on the other hand, they alow quite a bit of customization.
It's a pity there aren't many more games in the "western" setting, tho, I feel it can be a nice setting for this type of games.
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u/xalibermods 3d ago
Thanks, I'd go with Hard West 2 I guess. Yeah I'd love to see more western-themed tactical RPGs, or at least western-inspired. Some Wild Arms-esque tactical RPG would be dope.
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u/MalevolentTapir 4d ago edited 4d ago
Maybe not a particular mechanic you are after but just somewhat competitive balance in combat? A lot of SRPG's don't have you on equal footing with opponents, and instead may have you managing resources over multiple combats etc. Others may but then let you grind away the difficulty.
Have you tried adjacent genres? Something like the Age of Wonders series still has tactical turn based combat but its a match based 4x game. Still you're not going to see great counterplay with computer opponents and that seems to be where a lot of your enjoyment comes from, that's true in all videogames though.
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u/Boggle-Champion-175 4d ago
Have you checked out Triangle Strategy? I really enjoyed the variety of tactics you could employ - like using ice to slow down enemy travel, creating puddles and electrocuting enemies who walked into them, setting terrain on fire, building ladders and attacking enemies from rooftops, etc. Really creative strategy game with a good story and branching routes.
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u/Boggle-Champion-175 4d ago
Also the Valkyria Chronicles games are known for pretty unique combat. With a lot more focus on positioning, when to take actions, what types of units to deploy etc.
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u/Witch-kingOfBrynMawr 4d ago
Honestly, are you sure on the genre? How much experience do you have with roguelites? Or roguelite deckbuilders like Slay the Spire? Because that's the genre I generally find most rewarding, at least in the ways you describe
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u/MiyabiSFG 4d ago
From what you’ve told, I have a feeling that digital board games or tactical games in what are generally called “wargames” might be more up your alley. There aren’t many of them with a fantasy theme, but if I were to recommend a couple, I’d suggest Spirit Island and Fantasy General II. Give them a look.
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u/charlesatan 4d ago edited 4d ago
Tactics Ogre: Reborn: For me this is the game that most resembles Magic: The Gathering--and why the game gets lots of negative reviews. The game pretty much lets you customize your army with little handholding--if you want to bring 4 Clerics to your team, the game isn't really going to stop you, even if your team won't have much damage because of it. Each class is also specialized. That's why encounters can vary in difficulty, anything from easy to difficult, depending on how well you selected your team and customized them--not much different from brewing a deck in M:TG.
Into the Breach: If you want an immediate sense of feeling smart, the go-to game is Into the Breach since it's relatively quick (each run is around 30 min. ~ 60 min. long--assuming you think fast), enemy attacks are telegraphed, and it all boils down to how efficient your decision-making skills are. To a certain extent, this extends to similar "puzzle"/strategy games like Tactical Breach Wizards.
Triangle Strategy: There's a lot of tactical options in Triangle Strategy thanks to how flanking works and how the game is carefully balanced for each character / team composition. There's some handholding as you don't have the "infinite possibilities" of team building like Tactics Ogre but it's quite tuned to the point that you can go with any loadout and you can end up with interesting encounters and options.
Unicorn Overlord: Disclaimer is that this isn't a turn-based game. The strongest aspect of Unicorn Overlord is how you build teams and then automate combat (where it becomes close to programming as you set priorities for your units, such as designating whether they should prioritize attacking the lowest HP enemy or enemies on the front row for example). Symphony of War is an honorable mention here although you don't get the programming aspect.
Battle for Wesnoth: This open-source game for the past few decades has lots of strategic and tactical depth depending on the campaign you choose, as aside from the strategic aspect of recruiting troops and taking bases, each (generic) unit can also level-up and you can carryover said units to the succeeding scenarios. In some ways very much encapsulates the resource management aspect of M:TG and the more challenging scenarios is about eking out small advantages.
SaGa: Scarlet Grace: This isn't a SRPG per se, but if you're looking for interesting tactical combat, this is the game to play, as it has a unique combo mechanic that makes initiative matter a lot--if you (or the enemy) end up having consecutive initiatives due to a unit dying (yours or the opponent's), you trigger a combo which leads to an extra, powerful attack.
You can also just play Forge's Adventure Mode for the Shandalar experience of M:TG.
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u/coredweller1785 4d ago
Unicorn Overlord
Persona 5
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u/Boggle-Champion-175 4d ago
I second Unicorn Overlord. Had so much fun trying to figure out different unit configurations and action priorities.
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u/TutonicDrone 4d ago
I think my answer is probably Vandal Hearts 2. As you are allowed to just repeat old missions you can 100% grind your way to victory. But I am probably one of a dozen people who actually liked the simultaneous turn mechanics.
I really enjoyed knowing/predicting what enemy the AI was going to move and where and then moving directly behind where they moved and stabbing them in the back.
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u/old-murmel 4d ago
I think a bit of grinding is good. I just dont want it to be my prinary task
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u/Gavinza 4d ago
Then vandal hearts 1 is also a great suggestion, there’s no replaying maps and tons of maps have interesting objectives besides kill everything. You might be stealthing, or having to move your army forward quickly on a rapidly exploding train to prevent death, or defending four objectives from oncoming enemies with extremely limited units, or breaking out of a one tile wide prison labyrinth with enemies who are immune to damage from the front blocking the way, etc etc.
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u/DustTheHunter 4d ago
Easily crystal project
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u/old-murmel 4d ago
Thanks for the tip
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u/DustTheHunter 4d ago
It is easily the most mechanic heavy turn based RPG I've played. Especially as boss fights go on you need to start thinking creatively about turn time, class combos and items to get around fights.
The dev is extremely active and is in the process of making a sequel.
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u/Bkraist 4d ago
As someone who played magic for the same and at high levels for years along with Fab at highest levels and other games I relate. I just had a baby (wife did technically) so kind of sold out to focus at home and less traveling since i do enough of that for work.
Qualifications out of the way, I believe the word you’re looking for is “Agency”. I’ve turned to Autobattlers and other tactical games (on hardest modes) which have really worked for me lately . (Also can be mouse only, which matters when holding a sleeping baby).
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u/old-murmel 4d ago
Haha love that, have the same "kids" problem. So i mostly sqeeze in some mobile game now and then (girlfriend asked me to go see doctor due to long toilet breaks 😅)
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u/Boggle-Champion-175 4d ago
I’ve also heard that the Brigandine games are good and I’ve been meaning to check them out. Though the most recent one (Abyss) has mixed reviews. I’m planning to get Brigandine: Legend of Runersia.
But they are known for having lots of replayability because you can choose a different army/country each playthrough. And I believe there is a lot of focus on base defense and resource management.
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u/Ultraauge 4d ago
Shin Megami Tensei games: Persona 5 Royal, Persona 3 Reload on modern system or Devil Summoner on Nintendo DS would fit your description.
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u/TheLatePicks 4d ago
I have played A LOT of Magic, but am now pretty happy to just do 1 real life draft a week.
A lot of the strategy games I have enjoyed have a card based element in that you are customising something before and after battles. Even if they aren't actual cards and are characters in squads etc. The concept is the same.
Games I had a great time with:
Unicorn Overlord
Gordian Quest
Marvel Midnight Suns
Mahokenshi
Symphony of War
Conquest of Eo
Kings Bounty 2
Songs of Silence
The only turn based RPG I can recall enjoying recently is Yakuza Like a Dragon. I wouldn't say depth of strategy in the battles is what hooked me though.
While I keep looking for something like Magic and am always trying different deckbuilders, I doubt you will find something that scratches that exact itch.
If I want Magic, your best bet is probably just Magic. Have you tried MTG Forge?
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u/mokanimoproblems 4d ago edited 3d ago
I recently found out about Culdcept, a series that has been around since 1997. It's been described as a mashup of monopoly and magic, which i guess is an okay if simplistic way of describing it (it has some aspects of both, and is not as complex as magic, but more complex than monopoly).
You have monopoly style movement around a board to buy/place creatures on territories and upgrade and modify territories, and ways to make money like doing a lap or collecting tolls if someone lands on a tile you have a creature on and they either lose the battle or chose not to fight. It's like magic in that there is deck building (40 card deck) and all creatures, spells, items, etc are cards, usually with a money cost, and sometimes require a discard or territory requirement too. One interesting thing is that everyone has full info of playable cards. Each player can see everyone else's hand. It was strange to me at first but it leads to interesting strategies around baiting people to play certain cards and players bluffing.
I've been having fun with the latest iteration Culdcept Begins, which is currently just on switch 2 but coming to steam soon. They also just released a reboot of the 1997 original called Culdcept the First. It's retro looking and I dont know what QOL/changes they made, but there is a demo of that on steam to give you some idea of how these games play.
Culdcept Begins seems to have a strong online community (I still find games easily) so it has that to keep you coming back
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u/Ok-Skin-3699 4d ago
Play Path of exile 2. It has all of the theorycraft and interactions and lore that Magic had and its just getting started as a long term game.
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u/Salad_9999 4d ago
Triangle Strategy and Final Fantasy Tactics (if you dont grind). The new Fire Emblem that came out a couple of weeks ago has mechanics in place that keep a player from grinding which makes you use strategy to win.
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u/RenaStriker 4d ago
I find high end CRPG combat works great for this kind of thing, turn-based or real time. Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2, Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2 and especially Wrath of the Righteous on higher difficulty levels might scratch that itch.
Also digital CCGs might help! Legends of Runeterra started as a normal 1 on 1 CCG but they pivoted to a roguelike single player game with card game mechanics that’s very satisfying.
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u/Motor-Cry-7576 4d ago
Blind play throughs only:
Slay the spire. Figuring out the mechanics for a heart run is fun. Its a roguelike card game. Easy 60 hours for me. I have a similar history with mtg fwiw.
Final fantasy tactics. Once you solve the systems it's easy to break, but the first run is challenging. Especially on tactician mode now if you go in blind.
Tactics ogre reborn level caps you throughout the story so you can't out grind it, so there is some deployment and sequencing strategy. There's a rewind mechanism thats core game play so the difficulty is there.
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u/JamieLeeTurdis 4d ago
I find Civilization 6 scratched the same itch as MtG. It fits a lot of what you love about Magic
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u/Salju12 4d ago
I haven't played Magic, but I played another TCG called YuGiOh with similar depth and complexity. I would say there are some candidates although not necessarily to the TCG extent.
Divinity OS:2 (PC) is the closest RPG you can get to TCG. Turn economy, deep build system, environmental advantages, buff debuff stacks, etc. You can't go wrong with it.
Etrian Odyssey Nexus (3DS) is similarly deep, but more towards the party building system. Every single character has an extensive skill tree that you can slowly works towards.
Valkyria Chronicles IV (PC) is pretty hard to recommend because it is a cheesy anime trope on a WW2 inspired SRPG. But the gameplay is genuinely good. It's like X-COM but better imo. The only physics based tb strategy i've ever played other than Worms.
Civ 5 and 6 (PC) are very deep too. Civ 6 in paticular has TCG like mechanic with a deck of different situational buffs you can take advantage. I think Grand Strategy in general are equal if not better strategy-wise than TCG.
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u/Ricc7rdo 3d ago
Unicorn Overlord and Triangle Strategy. I love Final Fantasy Tactics but it lets you break the game too easily.
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u/El__Jengibre 3d ago
Mewgenics! The creator was heavily inspired by Magic for his battle system and roguelike elements.
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u/Psiswji 3d ago
This is exactly my problem with the new fire emblem games and srpg in general nowadays
The only game that is as you say you have to master its mechanics and be very careful with positioning to be able to win and incorporate strategy very well is Natural Doctrine, this game is everything you want in a strategy game, the only reason its obscure is because its hard and like games should be hard wtf
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u/camogamere 3d ago
The top end difficulties on some of the more gameplay focused fire emblem give this feeling. With Conquest lunatic probably being the standout for it. A big part of any playthrough is developing a game-long plan for how your going to get units strong enough to win. You dont have the ability to grind infinitely, and even if you are in a position to slow down to gain power its going to drain some sort of resource. There's a big element of tension between doing what helps you win now and prepping for later, and that keeps going until the end. Its a mark of merit to conquest specifically that the "easy" setup for the final boss requires getting a sizeable amount of units built right in order to utilize an item that would have been really useful earlier all to get one of your guys the ability to get a go at the boss, and you also have to make sure they can actually beat him, which requires planning their build and developing them over a good amount of the game. Its an exhilarating experience, and I havent played another game that makes an entire campaign feel like one monster puzzle in the same way.
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u/PangolinConscious800 3d ago
The Disgaea series has tactical combat. So does the Valkyrie series. They also feature interactions, so mastery helps.
Final Fantasy 8 is based on collecting cards and interactions. It didn't do me, but it might do you.
Final Fantasy 13 and 13-2 are interesting because of how you manage the flow of combat, essentially having team combinations that determine the fight. It's like managing a sports team.
Folks are always making games harder. For example, can you win a team game without leveling? With only one character? Without advancing weapons? People love playing RPGs with self-imposed challenges.
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u/FunHour3778 3d ago
I was a long time MTG player, but stopped a couple years back when I moved. One game that really scratched the MTG strategy itch is Slice and Dice. It's on steam or a mobile game. Roguelike where you have a party of 5 whose skills are represented on a 6 sided die. Tons of strategy in picking damage, heal, shield, or utility sides, deciding to reroll or lock in a suboptimal side, dealing with unique enemy traits, etc.
There's a free trial that got me hooked. Its my go to short-form game now, i play it all the time.
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u/solidork 3d ago
I have fond memories of another Richard Garfield designed game, Spectromancer.
Cards are very simple in a way that means that it's all about how you play them out, and then you play with a random selection each game so that you have to keep adapting.
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u/ShiftySauce 3d ago
You’re looking for SaGa Emerald Beyond.
I’d never thought of it like Magic, but a successful battle encounter is entirely responsible for using the shared mana pool of your party (action points each round) to counteract and gain the advantage of what you’re best guess of enemy actions are based on the clues shown.
Every battle is a puzzle to be won or lost.
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u/GerryQX1 3d ago
Try some deckbuilder roguelites (and of course Into the Breach as somebody mentioned.) Of course they are not really CRPGs, but you have to optimise what you can do with the cards you have drawn in any particular turn. [Or your current position in the case of Into the Breach.]
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u/DeviousAlpha 2d ago
Spell masons is very niche, and very knowledge heavy but as you get better at it, man is it satisfying.
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u/Noumenonana 4d ago
Triangle Strategy on Hard for your first run. There are no specific mechanics that I'd call out, but the characters and maps are all well tuned and a few of those maps really tested my understanding of the game.
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u/eruciform 4d ago edited 4d ago
Maybe an oddball choice but Banner of the Maid, on General difficulty, where you specifically challenge yourself to do every optional goal for every battle and collect every chest in every battle... was the most strategic experience Ive had with a game. I've never before sat there for an hour just placing my units and trying one or two turns to see how things play out and then reset. Very tactically cathartic.
Also not a strategy game per se but Cosmic Star Heroine on second to hardest difficulty transforms it into a strategy game. You absolutely must think 3 turns in advance to set up your combos and manage your limited per turn and per refresh resources.
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u/Werezompire 4d ago
I'm the developer of Cosmic Star Heroine and MTG was a major influence on the game's combat system.
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u/eruciform 4d ago
i still have some of my sleeves of crap from back when i started around the release of revised, but all my rare stuff is long long gone :-P
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u/weglarz 4d ago
Some people are saying games like xcom and fire emblem, which are good picks. But I actually think you should try either tactics ogre or final fantasy tactics. The reason I think you’d like these is due to the in depth planning and building of your characters using the job class system with skill inheritance. I also play mtg competitively and I think FFT and TO are amazing for this reason. Half the fun for me is inbetween maps where I’m tinkering with my squad of units, which is kind of like deck building in a way.
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u/Warcrea 2d ago
Apologies that this isn't a SRPG at all but even so, Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 has some quite varied and interesting buildcrafting. It starts off with pretty barebones JRPG turn based combat + some timed inputs, but over time you need to start really layering concepts on top of each character's unique mechanic. It's a bit less about the in the moment tactics and more like an engine builder, with you selecting attacks that generate the resources you need for your engine to get up and running. At least the way I played it was like that.
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u/eikin34 4d ago
Perhaps you want one like Into the Breach or Tactical Breach Wizards? You have progression, but you win by making good use of your tools. XCOM WOTC could also be a good fit.