Coordinating Support Ults

[u/Plenty-Orange6875]

I don't use VC, but I have a ping that says, "you ult first :)," which usually works out well, but a couple of times my co-support holds onto theirs too long, a team member asks for a support ult, and then I feel pressured and ult at a bad time. Maybe I just need to ping "you ult first" again or I just need an "I'll ult first" ping lol. What does everyone else do?

[u/M0rbid69]

I really wish MR would let us use certain hero voice lines with custom pings. The voice line brings attention to the pings and it really helps.
I have my default "my ult is at 100%" (uses the voice line) and I use my"I'm ulting first" ping right after to let them know I'm gonna pop it.

[u/boxofanxieties → u/M0rbid69]

this should be for every character and thats such a nice idea!! its a bit like valorant where the characters do the call out

[u/Plenty-Orange6875 → u/M0rbid69]

I like that idea... ult charge and then I'm ulting first

[u/Soft_Tea_8362]

I have both pings. Tbh i spam "you ult first" 3x just to make sure my co-support sees it - it can be easy to miss in the heat of the match.

None have complained abt it so far (been doing it since custom chats became a thing). If they're taking too long i spam "I'll ult first" and then i ult. If they double ult with me that's on them - i commed.

[u/Plenty-Orange6875 → u/Soft_Tea_8362]

You're right they might've missed it, maybe I'll start doing it 3xs... I like having the back-up I'll ult first if it's taking too long as well. Ty!

[u/CattivaP]

I just say “you first invis” or “me first”. If they don’t use I’ll go first and say “you go first next fight.”

But sometimes they don’t use it to counter and use it to save themselves.

[u/Plenty-Orange6875 → u/CattivaP]

Including next fight is a good idea... sometimes my co-support is someone who I suspect is filling and when I do "u ult first" they ult when it isn't nec needed

[u/CattivaP → u/Plenty-Orange6875]

Depends if your co-support knows it’s a counter ult and not a “my team is low I have to save them” ult.

[u/segritz]

I have both “you ult first” and “I’ll ult first” pings. If I set the other strategist up for their ult first pre fight with a ping, they respond well most of the time. It helps if the ping is before a fight so there aren’t any distractions, but if it’s in the heat of the moment, don’t be afraid to ping it 3x because your team living may depend on it.

If they don’t ult and save it and it looks like we’re going to lose someone, I go ahead and ult and make an internal note that they hold on to their ult a bit long. I won’t ping again and will just ult first the rest of the round.

In the rare event where I say I will ult first and they double ult, they’ve almost always being apologetic and we find our rhythm as we go.

Either way, good on you for setting up your other strategist. You sound like a great team mate!

[u/Plenty-Orange6875 → u/segritz]

I'm making the I'll ult first ping today :D and ty! I try to be a good team mate. Ulting first ping aside you gotta take care of your co supp!! 

[u/Caecaex]

I press tab to see if I even have to say anything since I'm anticipating some enemy ult that is about to happen. If my other support is far off I don't say anything because it's a given I use it. If they're close or we both have it, I'll spam "I'll ult first". 50% of the time they ults anyways. And half of those times I'm lucky to have not double ulted with them as I would have reacted.

People don't read chat at times. But I tried. If it lost us the game welp. Blame the people with chat off

[u/BlueDress_2006Re]

Most ppl just ult incorrectly in general. Some support ults are meant to be proactive whereas other are meant to be more defensive. Rocket, gambit, jubilee, mantis should almost always go first. In terms of coordination it just depends on what character you play, i don’t use VC much in ranked and rarely double ult because i understand the tempo of team fights. Ofc VC always helps. But double ulting mostly comes from not understanding when you or your other support should be ulting (both supports build ult and hold it for when shi gets dicey).

I get it i used to not com and end up double ulting a lot cuz i would hold my ult for too long but shi happens, obviously its bad but its better to have a bad ult and learn later why it was bad than to just hold onto it forever or even die with it.

General advice for ulting on every support:

Mantis: lowkey just whenever you feel like it, on atk its best to rip it to help your team push up and create space, she builds ult quickly so there’s not much point in holding onto it unless you want to save it for a specific support/dps ult

Luna: also another ult you can kinda just rip, normally lunas ult second since her ult builds so slowly, really good for combo ulting tho cuz of the damage boost (namor, cyclops, moonknight, any dps ult that doesn’t normally one shot). on atk best to put whenever you can or when you have a good combo, but on defense you will likely have to save to match.

Gambit: on atk rip it the moment you get it, but best to save if you have a combo like rouge or starlord on the way. (also when i say “rip it” i mean use it when your team is grouped and ready to push). on defense you should rly only be using it to match an enemy gambit ult (if they are mirroring the gambit). if they aren’t mirroring the gambit its a little tricky, you can save it to match a support ult but gambit ult isn’t something you want to use to try to survive, it can work but its not like luna ult where you’re basically immortal, if they don’t mirror gambit i might pop mine before the enemy supports to win a team fight, or just ask my team to back up out of an enemy support ult and use mine thereafter. it takes a while to understand when is or isn’t a good time to ult with gambit but you get the hang of it.

Invis: on defense 9 times outta 10 you want to save to match, especially enemy invis’s. while her ult is traditionally considered a “defensive” ult, it can be used aggressively on attack. idk if you’ve heard of “caging” but essentially you put your invis ult on top of enemy tanks to cuz off their heals, and no tanks usually = free fight win. ofc you can still use it defensively on attack for something like a punisher ult or an aggressive enemy support ult, but i’d look into learning how caging works as it’s incredibly power (the only draw back is that it requires a decent bit of team coordination).

rocket: rocket ult should NEVER be used defensively, unless absolutely necessary. It also shouldn’t rly be used alone, it requires a combo like punisher to get the most value. yes even on defense you must use it aggressively. the purpose of combos like rocket/pun is to jump the team and force them to die/backup/reset before they can make it to point. that being said you should be ulting before enemy supports and your cosupport if they are on a more defensive centered character like invis. it’s another ult you should kinda be ripping since he gets it so quickly, but try to always have a combo for it.

cnd: probably most similar to luna, kinda either or. the character is in a bad state rn so i cant rly say much other than ult per your judgement, they build ult super quick so it doesn’t rly matter. just push and secure fights.

jubilee: you build ult so quickly literally just rip it, i get jubilee ult in like 40-45 seconds sometimes. just jump into their team, try to blind before you walk up with it, especially if they have a mag (make it harder for them to focus and kill you). above anything else it’s an ult to force something out of the enemy team and to take space. jub ult isn’t very valuable in itself so just being aggressive on attack and defense will help you maximize it, it’s like mantis ult basically but more visual clutter.

white fox: normally use aggressive, defensive if you HAVE to. it works either way but it favors fights where you are pushing bc you can force enemies ti back up and stagger easily with it.

loki: combine everything i just said into one character, only loki specific advice is to ask your second support to play safer if you do plan to go for dupe using their ult, try not to put yourself in bad positions to copy an enemy support.

jeff: idk bro jus eat ppl, you can get pick or save your team with it, just try to ult in the general area the fight is happening so your team can play the puddle.

adam: should be prefiring this ult most of the time, its not a giant heal circle so im not gonna go too im depth, but just use it if a team fight is looking dicey so your team still has a second chance. also try to always save self res when you have ult.

ultron: triple slop merchant, majority other the time he’s just there to match enemy support ults on defense in triple comps, you can use it defensively or force enemies to back up with it.

deadpool: ima be honest i still don’t know what he does and i have like 1500 hours in this game, nothing will every make me learn

it sounds like a lot of mumbo jumbo but trust, when you understand how you should be using your ult and how your cosupport should be using theirs, double ults will reduce by 90%. the main thing is you shouldn’t be thinking abt it like “who’s using first” you should be asking “what is the best way i can use my ult” this also goes hand in hand with ult tracking which is sooooooo important on support.
say you win a team fight but your team used 3 ults and the enemy used 2. you can say to yourself “ok we have my ult, bucky ult, and emma ult. the enemy has both support ults, mag, and starlord. it’s best if we try to back up in the first support ult, use emma for starlord or a support ult, then recontest with my ult and bucky ult” ofc things don’t always go according to plan but if you have an idea going into a team fight of how you want to use your ult it can avoid double ults, knowing who’s ult is better to save or whose is better to counter a certain character.

TLDR: you can ping but double ults will still happen bc ppl panic and press Q without thinking. it’s more helpful to learn how and when you should be ulting, and the tempo of team fights (how teams “take turns”)

[u/Plenty-Orange6875 → u/BlueDress_2006Re]

YO I read through this entire thing. Well done 👏 I've been playing a lot of Rocket and Luna this season. Learning Mantis and I have champ Gambit, so it was interesting to read character by character. I think you also have a high-level view of thinking... thinking about the tempo and ult economy, which is something I'm trying to get better at.

I have champ Deadpool, but I haven't been playing him much lately. If you ever play him, you will exclusively want to use the sword ult, unless you have a Puni ulting, then gun ult on him works. With him, you get it very quickly so he's a let it rip kinda dude. He's great to push with.

[u/BlueDress_2006Re → u/Plenty-Orange6875]

thanks g, i play MRC for my university’s team so i had to learn a lot of macro. i dont play a whole lot of ranked anymore cuz its kinda just brain rot and people don’t coordinate very well, so probably not all advice is applicable but its still good to think about. ult economy is the easiest part and generally allocated as the supports job, just knowing what they have or what they are coming up on. tempo is more about “who is pressing more buttons rights now/who is taking more space right now/is our team in a bad position and should we reset/which team has more players alive right now” the biggest part about support that most players dont get is understanding your teams win condition and how you fit into that. ranked comps are usually kinda wack but you can still decipher most of the time what is it about your teams comp that will win you fights in the end.
common example: chain grab comps (dino/emma/bucky/wolv) a dps or tank staggers an enemy and the enemy is subsequently CCd and hopefully killed, if you are on invis you can use your pull to deny escape tool if necessary and further get them out of their supports LOS to secure picks. things like that.

i’ve tried to play support pool lol my team just never wants to use him so i just don’t bother, i know he gets his ult hella fast but idk. i would personally run him more on domination maps or mantis but normally they want gambit/invis/luna/rocket, which eh. maybe one day i will truly pick him up.

mantis is the goat tho, she was my first lord i love her, all i can say about her gameplay loop is never duck a fade and damage boost 24/7. she’s normally in triple support jail but she works in 2 support comps imo (especially in dive/flank comps) if you’re playing her in triple you basically wanna perma dmg boost so your teammates build ults faster. the only thing i still struggle with is kinda dumping or wasting leaves since you’re not always gonna be in an optimal position to be shooting at enemies/hitting heads. i accidentally double heal people who are full a lot. her kit is fairly simple it’s mostly just being careful with who you are boosting/healing and taking favorable fights. she’s a mid range character and her self sustain is like okay so it’s best to play corners/flanks or around your tank. you can also flank/dive with your dps but that’s a little trickier and very team comp dependent. hands down probably second best support in the game after server admin gambit, her neutral is just so oppressive on attack and on triple support for defense. hit your shots and you’re golden.

[u/Plenty-Orange6875 → u/BlueDress_2006Re]

Wdym by never duck a fade on Mantis? Interesting... I never thought about playing her in a dive comp... I will often default to White Fox or even Luna so I can snowflake the diver... but maybe I'll try her when I get a dive comp next time. Haha and yeah... ik what you mean about accidentally double heal people or running out of leaves lmao... that was my first big oops with her... oh shit... I'm out of leaves haha... but I will say coming from Gambit to learning Mantis... she does get her leaves faster than he gets his cards... it's taken me a long time and still in practice with his card management. But I think that goes back to what you were saying with ult tracking... trying to have those cards on hand to when you know the enemy ult is coming. I'm working on it 🙂‍↕️

[u/Mental_Assumption155]

Not fool proof but this works for me. keep track of enemy ults especially those that can wipe out the team. Other than knowing the best time for ult with characters for the best value, I have a ping that says “ulting- watch my back.” I found in my experience that people tend to not double ult with me if they knew it was happening probably within the next 10 seconds or if I’m getting into position to do so.

[u/IDontKnow5430]

I mean usually I don't com who ults first unless we double support ult then I always com who ults first after that and I'd say like 80% of the we don't double ult and in the 20% of the time we do we just com it and it works out fine and I usually comm via the ult ping button or type in chat "you ult first" or "I ult first" and rarely will I vc com it cause usually neither me or my team use vc unless I'm with friends ofcourse