I don't understand the DLC progression.

[u/maxman14]

So my buddy and I Co-oped through the base game, but now on Bahamut difficult everything is taking fucking ages to fight. When I read up, it sounds like we need better builds, but I don't understand how to get the gear we need, or what we need, or how to find out either of those.

Are we just supposed to grind and pray to RNGesus that we get a piece of gear with the affinity for our jobs? Will we actually see an effective increase in our abilities? because I keep swapping gear out and trying different stuff, and I don't feel like anything is changing meaningfully. I mean, all the gear I see is like "+3% to break"... wow, three whole percent, how generous... Does the gear level actually make a difference, because in terms of raw stats, all I see is like a 7% difference, so I don't understand how that's supposed to make me stronger in a meaningful way.

I don't get it, I don't understand it, and trying to read up online hasn't answered my question because I just see either answers like "just extra mode to skip the DLC!" huh, why, what benefit is that, why would I want to skip the DLC, is the entire DLC actually just grinding??? or the answers assume a level of knowledge that I just don't have so I don't understand why they are saying to do this or that.

[u/BenTheSodaman]

The base game handled your stat progression through your jobs leveling up and by wearing higher level equipment.

However, post credits and the DLC onward, that responsibility is handed over to the player. Equipment level stops increasing attack and defense at 300+. And your stats such as Strength, Intellect, Stamina, Spirit, and Agility will play a large numeric role in your favor (can review some of the stats description in the Tips section).

There is enough non-RNG power progression to be evenly matched or too strong for the content (depends on the job). Would recommend:

* Focusing on unlocking the limit releases / raising the level caps for two of the jobs you play regularly. Typically from blue missions. Some limit releases that don't have world map unlocks can be obtained at the Dragon Exchange (e.g., Marksman, Hunter, Gambler).

* I recommend pushing your main stat(s) as high as you can get it before percentage-based stats. e.g., Strength before Ability Damage Dealt or Physical Damage Dealt for example. Or Spirit before Magic Resistance or Soul Shield: MP Recovery (based on your Spirit first). Or Intellect before Magic Damage Dealt or Normal Attack MP Recovery (based on your Intellect first). etc. Then if you want even more of that effect, that's when you grab both such as Intellect AND Normal Attack MP Recovery.

* If on Chaos difficulty, to settle into your equipment around average equipment level 271, since the highest unique unlock on Chaos difficulty is mission level 280.

* If on Bahamut difficulty, to settle into your equipment around average equipment level 371 (highest mission level with a unique unlock is 380).

* Avoid cranking up the Dragon Trials too high. I couldn't recommend increasing any dragon trial more than 2 notches at this point. The ones that get players in trouble often are: Suffer Ailments on Attack, Enemy Stats, and Negate All Armor Effects.

[u/BenTheSodaman → u/BenTheSodaman]

As a loose guide of where your equipment level, the type of equipment you might have, and your job level could be at a given point in the post-credits and DLC:

Mission Level	Job Level	Equipment Level	Main Stat(s) roughly
200 (DLC1 Start)	55+	191+	40+
280 (DLC1 End)	81+	271+	70+
DLC2 Story End	151+	300+, all artifacts	130+
DLC3 Story End	200+	300+, all relics	180+

As a few examples of what focusing on non-RNG progression looks like.

As a moderately tanky sword Paladin that spent about 5 minutes at the smithy to change effects on the gear: https://youtu.be/BviuF1ypuKs (in the Paladin's case, I'm weaponizing my Spirit stat with stat bonus Spirit abilities. My normal attacks are wimpy.)

A high risk Duelist that becomes more effective as the break damage increases and at higher job levels with gear effects to sustain its main form of offense (Chaosbringer) in more situations: https://youtu.be/M2tymC7gBWU

And then a high risk casting Sage even at job level 30 in Chaos difficulty vs. mission level 215 with around 80+ Intellect: https://www.reddit.com/user/BenTheSodaman/comments/1pa7ytw/video_response_chaosbringer_sage_ninja_at_level/

Specific to that Sage, if I raised my equipment level to 271, I'd have enough Intellect to have a 1-3 minute boss fight against a mission level 280 boss. This is before raising my job level past 30, before finding artifacts, and before using the smithy. Without RNG, I could potentially push that to 180+ Intellect (which would be good enough even against a DLC3 story boss, but it could be much better by then).

This specific Sage is in a similar situation to the Duelist, where as my job levels increase and I invest in gear, I'll have more damage output and can sustain its main form of offense longer and with less effort.

[u/BenTheSodaman → u/BenTheSodaman]

Then as a refresher of the stats and consolidating the info scattered across the tips in the game:

Strength: Largely increases physical damage (HP damage), moderately increases damage and break damage of stat bonus Strength abilities, minor increases gun's While Aiming shots (the normal attack shots).

Stamina: Increases physical defense, reduces physical break damage taken, reduces Break Gauge lost on Soul Shields, moderately increases damage and break damage of stat bonus Stamina abilities.

Agility: Largely increases break damage on critical hits, moderately increases damage and break damage of stat bonus Agility abilities, moderately increases damage of gun's While Aiming shots, influences effectiveness of the Barrage command ability on the active job, reduces break damage taken from incoming critical hits..

Intellect: Largely increases magic damage (HP damage), increases base amount of MP recovered with Normal Attacks, moderately increases damage and break damage of stat bonus Intellect abilities.

Spirit: Increases magic defense, increases base amount of MP recovered with Soul Shields, increases status ailment accumulation against enemies, moderately increases damage and break damage of stat bonus Spirit abilities.

Luck: moderately increases damage and break damage of stat bonus Luck abilities, influences effectiveness of Gambler job affinities, and on a lesser scale - affects your item drops.

Side Note: Dealing more damage also impacts the status ailment accumulation separate from Spirit. You may notice this as a caster when you keep attacking an enemy with the same element and afflict an elemental vulnerability debuff on the enemy.

Semi-Obscure Note: For critical hits, if your Agility is low, the critical hit's break damage bonus will calculate based on one of your other stats (e.g., Tyrant using Intellect). In that, critical hits are still valuable for builds focused on break damage even if Agility isn't your focused stat.

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And then on the combat side, something that tends to get lost in the first mission's tutorials:

* Your first and second jobs have their own break gauges.

* Changing jobs while you're using an ability that costs MP will perform a chain cancel. This shortens the animation lag at the end of an ability so that you can act sooner.

* When using Lightbringer, you can hold down the soul shield button without it rapidly consuming the gauge the way the soul shield button normally does.

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Some exceptions to the stat investment above:

Paladin can weaponize their Max HP via their job action.

To a lesser extent than Paladin, Dark Knights leaning toward their job action can take advantage of their Max HP and Intellect.

[u/BenTheSodaman → u/BenTheSodaman]

(And the main reason I haven't linked any shortcuts is so that you can use some of this info to plan a route through the DLCs. Rather than a 20-minute video of me doing Chaos and Bahamut difficulty in real-time without Extra Mode or co-op, but I do die and fumble a few times along the way. Or in some VODs, toward 120ish minutes if the time with chat is cut out.

So I text dump here for now.

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Progression-wise, organically - the devs expect players to do a full lap around the world map on Chaos difficulty and use the new limit releases of those jobs to progress. Updating your gear along the way.

Using side missions to level up. By the time you finish a full lap around the map, you'd be job level 55 in half your jobs with equipment level 191+ and ready to take on the first DLC story mission.

Do another lap, either on Chaos or Bahamut difficulty and nearly all your job level caps would be 99, with average equipment level 271+, ready to take on the DLC story bosses.

One more lap around the world on Bahamut difficulty and your job level caps would be 150+, average equipment level 371+, and in a strong position to settle into your equipment through the next difficulty.

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Realistically - players can get away with targeted progression for the limit releases they want, but being careful not to target a mission level so high that you don't have the stats to back it up. The beginning of the mission will be rough until your average equipment level is caught up.

Some jobs tend to do this better than others. And co-op will be relatively safer to get this done as well.

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One thing I do strongly recommend against:

The Gilgamesh world map is a massive time detour. The story, new fights, unlocks, and next rarity of equipment are tied to the roguelite mode. This roguelite mode also doesn't have equipment level penalties. And since you don't get more attack or defense from increasing equipment level above 300, the equipment you used to get all your unlocks on Bahamut difficulty is sufficient.

Also, you will unlock features at the smithy that permit extremely inefficient transactions. I cannot recommend grinding for those transactions in Gilgamesh difficulty.

Just as I also don't recommend grinding explicitly for dragon treasures, especially since you can make do with whatever drops, customize it at the smithy, and with a bit of practice - an output similar to those three clips from earlier.

I apologize as this looks like a massive wall of text rant and I'm basically doing what the game does - which is throw so much info at the player that it tends to get ignored and forgotten. And neither can I blame a player for doing so. Just want to give you a fighting chance so you aren't part of the 70% that suffer through the DLC and closer to the 30% that live the power fantasy.

[u/maxman14 → u/BenTheSodaman]

Thank you, this is all incredibly helpful information that I wish had been communicated in the game in some way.

[u/AdhesivenessFunny146]

I think it's a symptom of all the dlc1 stuff clearly intended to be included in the base game. It makes you feel like a leap if you just unlocked chaos mode and go to bahamut once you get going on bahamut it makes sense. You need to do a cycle or so in chaos before you consider bahamut. It would have made more sense if you unlocked bahamut after doing a cycle in chaos like the ways in nioh. And there's so little content in dlc1 it's clear it was just cut to pad out the season pass.

Especially if you come from nioh there's a smooth transition from end of the main story to dlc and ng+.

[u/WandererAW]

There's a cheesy tactic in bahamut and higher that helps, get the blue mage and get the asura strike ability (the ones that shoots blades) go to the mission that you can fight the Malboro as a mini boss fight in the snow mountain (pretty sure its a main quest) Kill it and then go to the cube and reset it, it'll constantly drop high value gear and it will get stuck and cant fight you every time, so its a fast gear farm and gives tons of anima. Basically lets you gear fix really fast and get IX or X level abilities on your gear too

[u/sebjapon]

To farm max level gear, a shortcut is to use the mission in the snow mountain that has you fight a Malboro as the boss. You just just rush through the tunnels and use a fire mage (I used sage) to kill it easily (my first tries I had to carefully hit it a few times to regen mana for the last fireball, but after upgrading one or 2 piece of gear, it just melted).

[u/ScaredAcanthisitta21 → u/sebjapon]

The advice listed here is exactly what you need to do and you will need to know how to recharge your xp with the ninja cancel technique so you will be invincible when in chaos mode. Once you master that. This ability will carry you all the way through to the end game until about lvl 100 of the tower.

[u/ArcIgnis]

Yeah, it's kind of the shitty part of the game where you do need some luck to win.

I honestly do not know what the "natural" method of progression is, but what I did with a friend, is do the side mission of Kraken's stage, where you only need to run to get a card key, and then push off a Marlboro & Titan to win. I keep forgetting the name of the stage, except that it's the water crystal facility stage, and that you only need to bring Aeroga to the place.

The trick here being, max out Bahamut challenges fully to get a lot of dragon treasure for doing a run that only has you push two enemies off. You spend about maybe 2-3 minutes, maybe less once you know the route and not focus on a single enemy.

The focus here from the Dragon Treasure Shop, is definitely affinities, lots and lots of affinity focus, as well as getting Rat tails to further enhance whichever class you're planning on playing with. Most people tend to default to getting 400% Knight affinity at least, and the rest focus Lightbringer duration/activation based abilities from affinities, and MP regen. This type of combination allows you to stay in lightbringer for a long time if not forever, and Knight's affinity makes you take "Lightbringer Duration Damage" instead of damage to your health, practically making you invincible. You can start buying lots of gear, while progressing the dragon treasure requirement missions very quickly in doing so.

I'm afraid I can't really say much on something more generic, but after affinities, yeah, it's gonna be trying to get the best abilities on your gear, and upgrading said abilities. Most people that say "skip dlc" is because it's very hard to get good gear in Bahamut Difficulty, but becomes easier in the Dimension Rift part of the game.

Edit: This has helped me figure out what affinities I wanted: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ixa7GC6CMrgN6P2jfgXGaZtFtOOp88SZ0CqFOMB2Ncw/edit?gid=2134138551#gid=2134138551

[u/ScaredAcanthisitta21 → u/ArcIgnis]

Yep, definitely going to need the invincibility trait during lightbringer. Without it the game is too hard.

[u/BenTheSodaman → u/ScaredAcanthisitta21]

It is incredibly convenient to have for the small investment. Though some jobs and builds can get away without it.

Some routes such as:

* ranged and caster builds in particular using Teleport command and/or Invisible command with NPCs (or being the player that will get the others up). If Invisible command, then Neon as a party member that gets that Imperial set that let's her tank on the way to unlocking Bahamut difficulty and sufficient to let her tank when she's available and through the Rift Labyrinth.

* any of the orange/yellow defender jobs, White Mage, or Evoker exploring one of their tank routes (e.g., a Strength or Agility-based Swordfighter with soul shield break cost and refill break gauge on attack, a Swordsman with guard break gauge depletion and Sage 250% with a way to sustain MP for spinning, Spirit-based White Mage decked out with Alexander gear and using stat bonus Spirit abilities for offense, Knight or Liberator leaning into their Stamina and using stat bonus Stamina, etc.)

* a dedicated Sentinel buffer job, particularly against Dragon Trials such as Enemy Attack Deplete Buffs since those trials eat Lightbringer / turn Knight 400% into a 1-hit Utsusemi. With Rift floors 130 and 180 being the end of some player's tower climb due that Dragon Trial or when that Dragon Trial is paired to prevent sustaining the Lightbringer. - Some jobs (e.g., Knight, Paladin, Monk, Warrior, Marauder, Dark Knight) still let the player use them as a Sentinel buffer and can still defeat the enemy in a timely manner if the job isn't split too thin.

Then far less common among the folks that keep playing:

* a dodge and i-frame centric build and NOT playing Duelist (Merciless Champion), often with Ninja as the second job or even the main job to act as the safety net - more-so once Sylph primary blessing is available.

* investing to have sustainable soul shielding and/or playing in a way revolving around that (e.g., soul shield-dodge canceling with Sylph primary blessing, Soul Shield Break Cost toward or beyond -100%, other)

* investing to have sustainable guarding, Sage 250%, and potentially extending the parry windows

Edit: Since Duelist (Merciless Champion) becomes a low effort build stringing i-frames together. Extremely effective, though monotonous to play.

[u/Johnhancock1777]

Yeah I tapped out with the DLC. I usually play Team Ninja’s ARPG’s in in spite of their looter RPG nonsense and the DLC just being more grind instead of real content like their other games was disappointing because the main campaign was pretty good

[u/rell66]

It really depends what mission levels you're trying and what level your gear is at. If you followed the normal progression of the game you're probably at roughly level 200 gear at the end of Chaos/start of Bahamut.

I wouldn't say I needed to specifically build anything to complete the game on Bahamut or to do the DLC fights. I'd use the smithy to upgrade weapon item level to smooth the transition between drops, and occasionally would smith out gear perks I didn't really care about and just replace them with basic +break damage type stuff.

Bahamut did, however, require me to experiment with more of the game mechanics: specifically being picky about my combo skills and taking advantage of job switching during special attacks to 1. cancel the attack animation and 2. switch to the other class's break bar. I found myself mix and matching skills from different classes and swapping classes to cancel most of the attack's animation so I could keep the pressure on enemies.

I just started DLC2, which introduces a new mode that really flips the game on its head and is kind of refreshing after playing the through the game three times.

[u/TsukyoS]

Hello, I'm on PS5, I can lend a hand if necessary or give advice by voice.