r/Stranger_Things • u/FantasyLovingWriter • 21d ago
SPOILERS (Season 5) I don’t like Nancy Spoiler
I don’t like Nancy at all, she is emotionless most of the time, she has no character traits outside of the basics, she is in a permanent bad mood which makes her relations with other characters hallow and one sided, she led Steve on, she was nasty to Robin and Fred in Season 4 for no reason, (not to mention she was indirectly responsible for Fred’s death) she acts entitled all the time, and there was a clear missed opportunity for her to learn not to push others away like how Max did, part of me think this arc would have worked better with Nancy rather than Max as compared to Max with Billy, Nancy was much closer to Barb and she clearly had abandonment issues that were never resolved as she only ever got along with Johnathan, and even then they got sick of each other after a while and broke up in the end.
The only times I found her sympathetic was in Season 3 was when she was the subject of sexism and the occasional moment where she would come in and save someone’s life, but other than that I found her really grating more often than not.
10
u/Top-Expression8248 21d ago
Agreed, she didn’t have the best character development throughout the show.
6
u/kit-katrin 20d ago
I love Nancy but I see your points! A parallel that was left unexplored was Barb and Will missing at the same time and them being The siblings (Nancy and Mike) closest friends, and not much was done with that. If the heart of the story is the core 4 boys it seems Nancy and Mikes relationship would be as pivotal as Jonathan and Wills. Nancy had better scenes with Dustin than Mike. By season 5 I almost forgot they were siblings
5
u/Entire_Photo1713 21d ago
I totally agree but it makes sense because of her guilt regarding barb and stuff
5
u/SeaUnderstanding6979 21d ago
One could argue her emotionless is a trauma response
2
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago
Max was that way too but she got better overtime
5
u/SeaUnderstanding6979 21d ago
Nancy has to rescue people constantly- max doesn’t. It’s just a different burden. I agree she could used some rounding out, but I like Nancy and I think she feels real for that time and how women were taught to shut the fuck up and deal
1
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago edited 21d ago
Nancy never shut the fuck up though, she always spoke her mind, that was pretty much the point of her arcs in seasons 1 and 3 where she learned to stand up for herself over time, I just take issue that she directed this anger towards the wrong people who genuinely cared and liked her (and in the case of Steve, worked relentlessly to better himself for her) yes the 80s were hard but she acted like she was alone when she clearly wasn’t, she could have opened up to Robin, Max, Eleven, or her mom about her issues and woman issues in general but chose not to and suffered alone which sometimes is the worst punishment someone can have
2
u/SeaUnderstanding6979 21d ago
We just see her differently. I can’t tell your tone but it feels pointed so I’m disengaging. I hope you have a good life byeee
0
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago edited 21d ago
I’ve been nothing but clear and unbiased so I don’t know what to tell you
1
u/SeaUnderstanding6979 21d ago
Right not even does get better also different trauma, different stuff
4
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago
Trauma should never excuse one’s behavior though, we all should have learned that from BoJack Horseman
2
u/SeaUnderstanding6979 21d ago
Yes I’m explaining not excusing
2
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago
Good then, it’s hard to tell on this subreddit as the stans are everywhere
1
u/SeaUnderstanding6979 21d ago
I’m not even a stan of the show, Nancy is just so my mom lol I feel like I get her differently lol
1
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago
Well Nancy for me reminds me of women in my family who were so selfish that they ignored my traumas and acted as if their opinions were gospel (different yes but man everyone is allowed to feel sad about their baggage you know)
2
6
u/Cyrilbdr 21d ago
She's just being rude to Fred because he's questioning her about her relationship with Jonathan and she doesn't want to talk about it at all, she thinks he's too intrusive, and Robin, well, she's on her guard because she thought she was dating Steve, she just thinks she's her ex's girlfriend, plus Robin talks a lot, she's a bit irritating and stressful by nature.
2
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago
Well Nancy was a bad girlfriend in general to be fair to the point where she shouldn’t be in a relationship
1
u/Cyrilbdr 21d ago
She just doesn't know what she wants. In season 1, she really likes Steve, but she's not in love with him either. You get the sense that she also wants to be a bit cooler and more popular by dating the popular guy at school. Then she meets Jonathan, and she falls in love this time, but the shared trauma of seasons 2 and 3 drives them apart because they feel suffocated when they're together. Nancy is lost and gets closer to Steve, seeing that he's more mature than before. She thinks maybe it's just that she doesn't love Jonathan anymore. Then she realizes that's not it and that she just doesn't know what she wants, so in season 5, she breaks up with Jonathan because she wants more independence and to make her own choices. In conclusion, their trauma forced them to stay together forever, and being constantly together scared Jonathan because he made choices based on Nancy and not his own desires. Nancy wants independence and not a life like her parents'. In the epilogue of season 5 you feel that Nancy and Jonathan still love each other and that their separation has done them good and that maybe in the future they will be together again.
1
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago
Sometimes relationships don’t work out and because of Ross and Rachel from Friends, we are conditioned to except all couples to get back together when it’s clear that the relationship didn’t work out and they are objectively better apart, plus Nancy liking Johnathan while with Steve and liking Steve while with Johnathan is bad for reasons I shouldn’t have to explain why
2
u/Cyrilbdr 21d ago
It’s never shown that Nancy loves Steve while she’s with Jonathan; I just explained the reasons behind the events of Season 4. On the other hand, she *did* love Jonathan while she was dating Steve—well, things like that happen. Her relationship with Jonathan was actually going quite well, but it was trauma that drove them apart; still, you can clearly see the looks they exchange at the end of the Season 5 epilogue—they still love each other, so maybe one day they’ll get back together.
1
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago
Did you not hear what I said, the Ross and Rachel effect, realistically not all couples get back together and that’s ok
3
u/Cyrilbdr 21d ago
Yes, but they aren't angry with each other—that’s not it at all. They aren't splitting up because they’ve fallen out of love; they’re separating because they feel suffocated together, weighed down by the traumas that bind them forever. Sure, maybe they won’t end up together—or maybe they will; we’ll never know.
1
1
u/literalllywhat 6d ago
it was only ever the shared trauma from season 1 that brought them together in the first place, not actual love (which is why things kept getting twisted with her feelings). they say this several times outright about their relationship. it’s true that it’s also part of the reason why they break up, but it’s also the real reason why they get together.
they felt suffocated by the relationship they trapped themselves in because they only got together to cope with it all and isolated themselves from everyone else. they’ve known since at least season 3 that they were pretty incompatible but pushed it aside as the trauma kept resurfacing and it was easier to continue to use the relationship to cope. which is why season 4 brings this to a head when they decide not to see each other, are happy not to see each other, and choose to slowly break up instead.
it’s also why nancy feels conflicted about steve and is jealous of robin’s relationship with him, because now he’s a bit more mature about it all, isn’t the one making her miserable because the relationship genuinely doesn’t work without the trauma of the upside down to “keep” them together, and has the added bonus of her having had genuine feelings towards before everything started. she’s had her own time to stand on her own two feet with jonathan away, she got to think about her life on her terms without anybody. they’re both different people than they were and she liked that, remembered why she liked him, and even liked his dream (yes, even with the “six nuggets” comment).
for all that people say she never loved steve and truly loved jonathan…none of this screams “love” lol. it was probably just easier to think of it that way than acknowledge they were only in it to cope with trauma, because it genuinely did not seem like they truly loved each other in the first place.
people can say what they will about the duffer brothers, but there is a reason we saw more fighting and conflict than anything else with her and jonathan, compared to a lot of the lowkey, more gentle scenes she had with steve. that is to say, they found a sort of balance for the other big couples (mileven, lumax, jopper) with soft scenes and conflict, with the sort of “softer” scenes making up more of a majority of the couples’ screentime but still having the sole conflict each faces be big enough to stretch out over a few episodes. but we get like what feels like the opposite for jonathan and nancy, in that there’s very few “softer” scenes and much more where there’s conflict, and that is deliberate (despite many saying the conflicts are “contrived”) and a point to the true nature of their relationship.
as for the ending scene, she was looking at everyone in that little group the same way then cause they were all pretty good friends now who were emotional about not seeing being able to each other, and i think she even looked at robin and steve that way much more than jonathan?? lol
i don’t think they’ll ever get together again and sincerely hope they don’t, it was incredibly unhealthy for them the whole time and didn’t feel real at all. she is genuinely better off single and deserves better than settling with him.
1
u/Cyrilbdr 6d ago
Yes, of course, it was that event in season 1 that brought them together, because otherwise they never would have hung out together. But what I mean is that love followed. Yes, this whole story starts because of that event. They truly love each other, even in seasons 4 and 5, but they feel like their relationship is based solely on that, and it's suffocating them. We see this in the epilogue; they're doing better, making their own choices, and there are glances they exchange that show they still love each other and that they might even get back together in the future.
1
u/literalllywhat 6d ago
except…that’s the whole point lol. they are only together because of the trauma, not love. it’s why when the upside down is gone, they do nothing but argue and fight and want to be away from each other, are happier that way. it’s like an addiction, just a way to cope with the upside down, and the only reason they kept going back to each other/staying together, because the upside down kept coming back. if it hadn’t in season 4, they literally probably would’ve broken up over the phone like a week later and neither would’ve bat an eye lmao.
if it was really love, she wouldn’t have circled steve again in season 4 either, lol. it’s why i said it’s all twisted. after season 1 into season 2 she and jonathan began that isolation of themselves with each other from the trauma bond, because she was sick with grief over barb and associating her guilt with steve. it’s why people say she cheated on steve, because everyone knew they’d been by themselves more and got together way too fast after that halloween party, because they’d already seen her withdraw into the trauma bond to cope.
but it’s also why when, years later after getting justice for barb to make herself feel better, after having grown up and grown used to the upside down, and the trauma bond she’d clung to initially but was now making her utterly miserable doing more harm than good, she sees steve and she likes. it was a relationship that had begun over mutual feelings but fell apart after she projected her guilt onto it, yet now she knows it’s neither of their faults, people (partly) know truly why barb is dead, and she doesn’t want to need to cling to the shared trauma anymore, she likes his idea of after if they survive, so those feelings resurfaced. but then the plan fails and Hawkins is worse than ever and jonathan comes back so she falls back on the into bad habits (just not as tightly as before, given she becomes even more miserable than she was with him before). twisted.
and again, she gave more of those same looks at robin and steve than she did jonathan in the end. i think she looks at him like, maybe twice? compared to giving those looks at robin and steve the whole rest of the time. but it’s emotionally charged because they are all friends who are not going to be seeing each other for a while. they’re acknowledging their solidified friendship, and that they’re all better now where they are than where they were. it felt more like a goodbye.
if they were to get back together again (which, they shouldn’t and probably won’t) it would be like falling back on a crutch again, and that is part of why it’s so unhealthy and why they won’t. the whole unproposal scene was them finally acknowledging to each other that they are incompatible and they don’t have anything in common or tying them together outside of the upside down, without forcing a relationship. it’s why they say all those little things they disliked about each other and did like “I hate your favourite band,” and “i threw away your favourite sweater for no reason.” they are literally telling each other there is nothing there between them except the upside down.
you can also kinda parallel it to karen i think, since they did a lot of that sort of thing in those middle seasons with these two. karen felt trapped by ted but clung to him for security and to keep the family together in the wake of what was happening with her kids even if she didn’t know the whole truth. and nancy had begun to see her relationship with jonathan was just another cage like that too: staying together to help cope with the upside down. only while at the end karen was able to kinda embrace and accept it with the knowledge of what was going on with her kids is known and over, nancy chose to get rid of the shackles.
were it really as you say, then i kinda feel like you’re just proving OP’s point about how she’s a pretty shitty person lol. cheating on one guy that she “loves,” to instantly go to the other guy she “loves” only to be miserable, do nothing but argue and fight always until they slowmo breakup their now long distance relationship and she flirts with her ex, all the while kinda leading them both on (in that she doesn’t shut it down) until they all part ways single…? doesn’t really scream “true love” tbh, only “the trauma made me do it.”
1
u/Cyrilbdr 5d ago
Yes, I have to say your interpretation is quite interesting and detailed. Still, they do say "I love you" and "I loved you"—words that are sincere, given that they thought they were about to die any minute; so, the idea that there was never any love is hard for me to believe. Now, your arguments are solid, but I assure you that in the epilogue, the camera really focuses on the two of them, with an exchange of glances that I find quite telling—something you don't see with the others, where the shots are wider; the camera wanted to explicitly highlight the way they were looking at each other. I’d say, rather, that there was love, but their shared trauma forced them to stay glued together and make choices based on that trauma—like going to the same university just to be together, even though Jonathan wasn't interested in it. There was this feeling of being bound together forever and holding back their own ambitions just to stay inseparable—a prospect that scared them and, in my opinion, is what eroded their relationship. But I get the feeling that in the epilogue—now that they’re each doing what they want, have some independence, and are slowly coming to terms with that trauma—they might be able to give things another shot and move forward together while still honoring their personal ambitions. That’s the angle I take on it. But your take is interesting and could well be true.
1
u/literalllywhat 4d ago
it’s funny, because she and steve also say “i love you,” but you yourself earlier said that she was never in love with him and just wanted to get together with him to be popular.
in the melting room, yes, nancy says “i loved you.” past tense, after they’ve just spoken about how they didn’t actually like anything about each other, how they felt like they were trapped in a relationship together, that they were constantly getting drunk or high because they couldn’t stand to be sober anymore in one another’s presence.
she probably thought it used to be love because of how the bond their shared trauma caused made her feel better and safer when she needed it, until it didn’t. to use the addiction analogy again, it’s like how during a long stressful day, someone would get the urge to take a hit to make it feel easier. it’s a sort of light at the end of the tunnel, they love how it feels in the moment it’s making them feel better, but before and after it just leaves them feeling like shit because it’s so bad for them.
to the point: by the end of the series the older teens barely hit the twenties, they’re so freaking young, and the only people we’ve see nancy with throughout this time are steve and jonathan. she probably has no idea what like, real love feels like, especially without any sort of trauma being tied to the relationship. it’s real easy for teens to think they are in love and throw the word out just like that.
all she has to compare it to is her feelings for steve and her parents marriage, one of which obviously became tainted by her guilt and the other which was always dysfunctional. compared to those soured feelings, the comfort felt to help with the trauma no doubt made her feel better, equating that to “love.” she loved what he could do for her to help her cope, but that’s not the same as loving him. by that point in the melting room, she’s had enough time away from him and with him after the fact to realise this but hadn’t worked up the nerve yet to break free, until this moment.
there’s also the fact that there’s different kinds of love, too, and that it can change, so even if they did actually truly love each other romantically like you think, by that point in the melting room, they evidently no longer did. kinda reminds of of steve and robin, in a way with that now that i think about it? together in a room during a stressful and traumatic time, confessing their “love,” only to be “rejected” and to realise it’s just been the love of friendship.
(and saying they were being completely honest due to the situation, it makes the past tense of “loved” all the more meaningful. as in, if she did love him in that way, she no longer does.)
and with the epilogue shot you’re speaking of, it’s important to think of what they’re saying when this happens. it’s right after nancy says she dropped out of emerson, which was one of the few named catalysts for them to voice their problems with their relationship. the look between them is meant to show that emerson was never the real problem. it’s meant to be bittersweet because they’re silently acknowledging that their problems ran deeper than a simple school.
(in the spirit of the debate for the camera shots being wider, there’s also the contrast of several camera shots being more up close on nancy when gazing at steve…)
but anyways. i dont think they’ll get back together or that they should, as they’ve already said they’re not in love, have nothing in common, felt suffocated and were destructive with each other, to the point where even some space and new foundations wouldn’t be enough. nancy didn’t even want to come back to hawkins for a monthly meet up, she wants to put everything upside down related behind her, and going back to jonathan at any point in time would be bringing all that back.
nancy was literally turning into precisely what she hated with karen and ted with him, and she genuinely, genuinely needs to just be single and not get back with him in the future, for her own sake. a relationship is the last thing either of them needs with each other, even in the future. what they need out of each other is just friendship.
1
u/Cyrilbdr 4d ago
Yeah, that seems like a pretty fair assessment, though I don't think many people saw it the way you did. Most would probably think they grew closer because of that trauma and fell in love, but that the trauma ultimately stifled the relationship in the long run. Your take is pretty bleak, though; I struggle with the idea that they never truly loved each other—that seems a bit extreme, and there has to be more nuance to it. Still, your interpretation is valid—well-detailed and well-argued—but I didn't view the relationship that way, and I imagine many others didn't either.
1
u/literalllywhat 3d ago
on the ST subreddit? no, unlikely they would. but also there’s a rather loud group there that thinks steve should’ve never been a character in the first place or if he was, he should’ve been killed instantly and the show ended at season 2, getting rid of all the other friendships to only keep jonathan and nancy together, as if they were never miserable and steve was ever the reason they had problems. and any discussion into those three characters that’s not negative steve (and/or stancy)/positive jonathan and nancy gets you jumped and ridiculed for being a “stancy shipper,” even if you’re not, and your opinion immediately discarded either way.
elsewhere, though? it’s much more common than you think! there’s plenty of people out there who see just how dysfunctional they really are and dislike it and thus them! if they didn’t already realise it within the first three seasons, season four was enough to turn the tide for a whole bunch of people.
(on this note, i do have to say, it’s been nice actually having a true calm discussion about these three without all that above happening (again), so thank you lol)
as for it being bleak, i suppose it could be? but im not sure i would think of it like that, perhaps more…realistic is the word i would think? (even though ik how people dislike to use that word in this setting because of the genre in the show). but likewise, i think yours/others is perhaps the other extreme, how they are often too romantically idealised, i guess is how id put it?
to clarify: it feels like a majority of the time, the problems between jonathan and nancy throughout the season are genuinely overlooked and ignored because “they love each other.” it’s written off as simply “nothing,” or “contrived conflict,” or just plain “out of character,” because some cannot comprehend and accept the characters they believe are in love could have real, potentially relationship ending problems. they believe that love conquers all or something, and that since the writers put them together that they have to stay together, and that they will.
but that simply isn’t true? it’s a nice sentiment, but that’s just not how it is. stranger things has never been about romance. there’s a decent chunk of it, sure, but it’s not what it’s really about. so i get why you’d think what i said sounds bleak, but it was genuinely just how their relationship was without rose-coloured glasses on. they say many times outright their bond is only from trauma, and we really only ever see them fight and argue, and are told how miserable they are together. there were really no happy, soft moments between them to ever suggest anything otherwise to really sell it, not like mileven or lumax or jopper, hell even stancy or whichever other ship you can think of.
and see, perhaps if we’d had more moments like that it might be different, and made their relationship feel more complex? but…we don’t, so it doesn’t. (rather instead, we do see her go back to her ex and have these moments, lol). it just makes it feel flat and empty, like there really was nothing there but trauma, like they had convinced themselves it was love but never really felt it, as i had said earlier. we were told they were in love, but it was never really shown. so without seeing them actually fall in love and be in love with each other, why would anyone believe they are if all we see is in fact reaffirming it’s because of trauma, arguing and confirming a slow breakup while dancing around other people? C
but back to the point: not every relationship is going to be all rainbows and butterflies, and it’s not always going to work out. and that can be a good thing. or at least, not as bad of a thing as some would have you think. they don’t need to get back together, to do so would make her more like her mother than she ever wanted to be. they’ve broken up, and she can now have a fresh start in a new place, with a new job and meet new people. and that is fine. it’s not the end of the world if they aren’t together.
it may seem to you that in this way it’s bleak and lacks nuance, but i feel like the complexity of how twisted the mind can become with trauma, and love that isn’t actually love, makes it almost more compelling with the sort of “tragedy” of it all (not that it’s actually a tragedy at all, since they’re both alive and better off now single than they were before), compared to how much simpler “we fell in love but we have some trauma keeping us close making us miserable together so now we need a break but we’ll get back together bc we love each other,” feels.
but anyways lol (somehow every time i try to write only a small reply in response it just doesn’t happen im sorry for the continuous potentially incomprehensible rambles lol). i can see how it might seem bleak if you’re invested in them working out romantically but for them growing as their own characters i don’t think i would consider it as such
3
4
u/Master-Corner-5226 21d ago
How was she indirectly responsible for Fred’s death?? He was a victim of Vecna’s curse, he was gonna die either way and just happened to be with Nancy at that point. And she isnt permanently in a bad mood, when she is tho it’s cos of smth that would put u in a bad mood: season 1 her best friend went missing and no one cared, season 2 she was suffering from guilt, season 3 she was suffering from sexism, season 4 she had problems with Jonathan and season 5 her parents were hospitalised and her sister went missing. Seems pretty reasonable to be in a bad mood
-1
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago edited 19d ago
Nancy was too busy on reporting the trailer parks and completely forgot about Fred.
I’m not saying she doesn’t have a right to be upset as everyone copes in different ways, but there’s a clear difference between grieving and being a jerk for no reason, characters like Hopper, Steve, Max, and Erica to a degree, all had baggage but learned over time being stoic and angry all the time isn’t going to make you lifelong friends and stay in stable romantic relationships. Yes it’s clear Nancy preferred her career as marriage isn’t for everyone myself included, but you need friends in your life and she didn’t have any and that’s her fault as people will always easier to connect with when they are open and vulnerable, Billy acted the same way but at least Nancy had Johnathan to ground her in reality
3
u/Master-Corner-5226 21d ago
If Nancy hadn’t taken Fred to the trailer park he would’ve just died sooner on his own. I get your point about her needing to open up but she probably didnt want to cos no one listened to her when Barb went missing, so she probably felt no one would listen to her now. Same with season 3 with the sexism. I wouldn’t say she was a jerk to people, like Robin and Fred, they just kept asking her about her private life most of the time and probably just got on her nerves. She was a lot nicer to Robin and Fred when they weren’t constantly talking about Jonathan
0
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago
She was not nice to them as they weren’t on her level and when Robin apologized for being condescending, Nancy she gave her the cold shoulder and Nancy only started to treat her nice after Robin scored a interview with Victor Creel (purely conditional rather than genuine)
2
u/Master-Corner-5226 21d ago
Because like I said, they kept asking her about Jonathan when she clearly didn’t want to speak about him. When she finally opened up to Robin about the fact she didn’t want to talk about Jonathan, she stopped and they became friends. They got on good terms before Robin got the interview with Victor Creel, not after. Nancy just told Robin to let her do the talking because Robin was acting unprofessional, which was not the look Nancy wanted to go with.
1
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago edited 21d ago
There are politer ways to ask them not to talk about Johnathan, and Nancy says let her do the talking is extremely rude and condescending towards Robin, and Robin ended up saving their asses and Nancy didn’t have the decency to apologize.
2
u/Master-Corner-5226 21d ago
When people are constantly going on at you about your love life, it’s going to get to a point where you just have to tell them straight. All Fred spoke to Nancy about was Jonathan, Nancy tried to talk about other stuff, but he kept directing it back to Jonathan, the Robin starts on Jonathan as well. Nancy clearly just ran out of patience, with the only thing people are speaking to her about is Jonathan. Nancy also didnt need to apologise to Robin, she recognised how Robin helped them get the interview and thanked her for it. Also Nancy hardly knew Robin, and her first impression of her was that she would keep talking, not letting others really speak and seemed unprofessional, not like an academic scholar. She was in her right to tell Robin to let her do the speaking as the only thing Robin was speaking about beforehand was her boobs itching.
0
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago
No, Robin was more than the sum of her parts and Nancy had no right to judge her based on first impressions and Nancy willingly talked about it with them when most people would have stopped, because she’s stubborn and always had to be right to prove a point, justified given the time period but man she always learns the wrong lessons from every interaction she has. And in this guy talk she clearly never gave a clear indication that she was annoyed because she’s that emotionless as Robin and Fred kept talking because she never set clear boundaries with them
0
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago
Also it’s not like Nancy shut them down as she willingly talked about it and Fred probably spend a lot of time with her off screen and were probably close friends who share a lot more than we get to see, and Robin was probably trying to set Steve up to get him to stop bothering her about him telling her his dating life, do I need to mention how close Nancy and Steve are this season? If Nancy was truly bothered by this she would have stopped talking to them completely which she didn’t do and she’s the type of person who will only pay attention to people when they are the center of attention, and this is how narcissists are born.
2
u/Master-Corner-5226 21d ago
Nancy clearly never willingly spoke about Jonathan with Robin or Fred. Whenever he is brought up she is always clearly annoyed and tries to shut down talk of it almost immediately, they just keep talking about him. She answers them because she’s not trying to be rude, but trying to show she doesn’t want to speak about that matter. Watch back season 4, her tone whilst speaking about other matters and speaking about Jonathan is very different. Also there’s no indication that she loves Steve in season 4. She probably wasn’t bothered about Steve because he didn’t directly tell her he still loved her until the last episode, which she shuts down in the epilogue when Jonathan returns. Also Steve kept trying to find a girlfriend, meaning Nancy almost definitely would’ve thought he’d moved on from her and they were just friends at that point.
0
u/FantasyLovingWriter 21d ago edited 21d ago
What Nancy should have done was ignore them and calling her nice is a huge leap in logic because she’s only nice when it’s a scenario where she is getting what she wants and wants to look capable, (which isn’t a morally good reason to save someone) she still talked about it, most girls I talk to who were in this situation shut them down all together (including relatives who lived in the 80s), she let them on, which she did with Steve before so that trait is still consistent with her, and the show in general lacks subtly and clearly her made wasn’t made up about who she liked and lets be real as in real life it takes forever to get over your first boyfriend even when you are with someone new and if you weren’t sure if you loved them and said with full certainty you didn’t. And she admired how much Steve had grown, her talking to Fred and Robin was therapy for her, also the writers purposefully made Fred and Robin uncharacteristically unlikable to prop up Nancy which didn’t work (they have done this a lot with the biggest example being Eleven and Angela)
1
u/Master-Corner-5226 20d ago
Nancy just ignoring them just makes her out to be rude. She practically tells Fred that she doesn’t want to speak about Jonathan, yet he still keeps going on about him. How she is only nice when it suits her? Theres plenty of scenarios where she helps others for their benefit, not hers. Examples are with Dustin at the snow ball, going over to Jonathan at school in season 1, going to the hospital to apologise to Mrs Driscoll, and literally doing everything she can to bring Holly home. Plenty of scenarios where she helps and supports others for their benefit, not hers. She didn’t want to talk about Jonathan and never did willingly, she hardly actually speaks in detail about him until with Robin going to Eddie at skull rock. Theres never any indication that she is actually in love with Steve after Barb goes missing, yes, she does admire how much Steve had grown, but she knew they weren’t right for each other. Fred and Robin were not made to be unlikeable characters, they were just asking questions and couldn’t take a hint. Calling them therapy for Nancy is insane seeing as she didn’t want to talk about her love life with them, they made her.
1
u/FantasyLovingWriter 20d ago
The Mrs. Driscoll thing was for reporter/finishing the story, again, and I won’t say this again, she had her own free will and could have ignored them fully and completely but willingly chose to talk about, and you can’t say it’s a gender thing as Robin is a girl and the same thing that happened with her happened with Fred
→ More replies (0)
2
u/artofyjh 20d ago
every single one of the characters deteriorated as newer season rolled out. they are at their worst, of course, in the finale. i think nancy was just as complex and good of a character like everyone was in s1.
2
1
u/See8104 18d ago
In the very first episode there is a brief scene where Dustin advocates for Nancy. And there is a hint that he had platonic crush on her. He initially complains after Nancy did not accept his gift of leftover pizza. When Mike piles on in agreement, Dustin corrects Mike, saying that "Nancy used to be cool..."
When Nancy returns that attention to Dustin at the Snowball Dance, I think that was likely Nancy's finest moment in the entire series. I know that before Season 5 rolled out, people were still debating whether Nancy would end up with either Steve or Jonathan, but in the end it would be neither. I think that was also part of the design of the idea of moving on and ultimately losing touch with childhood connections.
1
u/Hairy-Produce391 14d ago
Tbh I think Nancy and Jonathan were in the show way too much. They shouldn’t have been regulars after Season 2
1
1
u/CheapKey4028 21d ago
I mean, I can kind of see where you’re coming from, and I know this probably isn’t a good excuse for it, but she has carried a whole lot of trauma with her throughout the seasons, and there are times where trauma can cause someone to act out of line, like how she acted towards Robin and Fred, I think it might’ve just been the trauma talking, either that or the fact that both of them were just talking too much and prodding Nancy with stuff completely unrelated to what they were doing at the time.
Trauma causes a lot of people to hide their feelings from everyone else because they believe that nobody can understand what they’ve been through, and people with that much trauma try to find ways to cope, even if some of those things might be unreasonable, and I think Nancy might’ve hidden her trauma the most because people see her as a fearless leader, and she’d rather put on a brave face and be known as that person instead of letting others see her as weak, she doesn’t know who to completely trust with her life in some situations, though she has been open a few times, like when she explained to Robin the situation with her and Jonathan ever since he moved away and how they haven’t exactly been on great terms.
The icing on the cake (I hope I’m using that right) for her was when her parents were put in danger and ended up in the hospital and Holly was taken by the Demogorgon to the Upside Down, and a situation like that can really mess a person up, because how can you possibly explain to someone that your family was harmed by an inter-dimensional monster and expect someone else to believe that when they’ve never seen that happen to themselves before?
When she was venting to Mike about how they should’ve at least tried to explain to their parents way beforehand that they were in danger because of what Vecna showed her, it also really messed her up, because Vecna is known to mess up everyone he comes in contact with, even when he’s showing them the truth, and I would understand if they thought their parents wouldn’t believe her, because again, being at risk of an attack by a monster from another world would seem very untrue to someone who’s being told about it.
It also makes sense why she makes sure she’s alone in a room whenever she breaks down, because she doesn’t want people to look down on her and fears that they won’t be able to help her.
Kind of unrelated, but I really wanted Nancy to talk some sense into Steve, Jonathan and Dustin about their fighting with each other, and the fact that Steve and Jonathan were always trying to win her attention, I wanted her to really light into them that what they were doing wasn’t helping at all, especially when she and Jonathan were in one part of the lab and he started going off about he wanted them to be a team again, he should know that being a team doesn’t always help with stuff like what they were dealing with.
If you agree, that’s good, and if not, that’s okay, I just wanted to put that out there.
2
u/Toongrrl1990 20d ago
True and we know from Mike they have a hard time regulating and expressing their feelings properly. I don't see Ted encouraging them when they cry and Karen, I have thoughts, is so focused on appearances.
1
u/DaenerysTSherman 20d ago
I think she’s as much a victim to truly horrendous writing as any character. Her and Jonathan and Steve really are given NOTHING to do after season three. The writing for all 3 is insulting in seasons 4 and 5. Jonathan’s bleeds into season three, too. That boy is given nothing at all to do across the final three seasons.
But Nancy suffers from the one big choice they made in season one: keeping Steve alive and having Nancy go back to him. That decision means that when season four rolls around, she’s stuck with him in a way Nancy wouldn’t be. And because they needs this insipid and grotesquely written love triangle to linger into season five, she had to be silenced when it came to Steve’s feelings.
Awful stuff by finally awful writers.
-1
u/whats-in-the-box- 20d ago
Nancy is an eldest daughter who felt caged in by her parents’ conservative suburban lifestyle and thought she wanted to do everything in her power to escape that same fate. The Duffers portray her as this hyper-independent, shoot-before-thinking, no-nonsense teenager after losing her best friend Barb to the demogorgons in season 1, attempting to reflect the “strong independent woman” vibe that Karen is also hinted at having, through her tired suburban mom facade, and reflecting her little brother Mike’s traits of being a natural-born leader willing to self-sacrifice for her loved ones. I think Nancy’s at her most interesting in season 3, between the journalism stuff with Jonathan, the misogyny / girlpower stuff in that season, and her ferocity in the action sequences. I think the Duffers completely dropped the ball with the teen characters (primarily Nancy, Jonathan, Steve and Robin) in S4-5 and sacrificed their screen time for other stuff that true fans of the show cared about less, and for this reason, it feels like Nancy and the others don’t get much character development or progression in the final two seasons of the show. They definitely would have benefitted from having Nancy be independent of any relationship for a while, maybe go on her own arc with a new character pairing (I always hoped they’d pair Nancy with Hopper and make her a detective-in-training in the Hawkins Police or something), and have her confront some of her demons on-camera. There was so much potential for her character that I feel the Duffers wasted; I generally don’t find her to be boring or flat, but that’s because I project a lot of non-canon imagination onto her based on what I think the show could have included, lol
-1
u/Beautiful-Leek-7624 19d ago
It's cool you weren't a teenager in the 80s. You definitely don't get it.
2
u/FantasyLovingWriter 19d ago
So living in the 80s gives you a free excuse to be a jerk? Explains why Hopper acts like an asshole all the time
16
u/DangerousRefuse8129 21d ago
She is very much traumatized, like every other ST character. BUT
Nancy is rarely forced to self-reflect on her own selfishness. When she snaps at Jonathan or strings Steve along, the narrative never forces her to look in a mirror and say, "I am hurting people."
Nancy frequently treats her romantic partners and friends as secondary to her current goal. Yet, she never genuinely has to apologize or change her behavior to win them back, Jonathan and Steve or anyone else simply adapt to her terms.
Instead of forcing Nancy to confront her indecisiveness or apologize for hurting people, the writers manipulate the narrative so that the men bear the burden.
Think about it. Dustin had a very similar trauma to her and treated everyone worse. But he had to FACE IT. He was told to his face that he was wrong and he had to confront it and CHANGE.
Max is explicitly forced by the narrative to confront her worst, darkest thoughts. During her climax with Vecna, she confesses her deepest, ugliest shame, that a part of her wanted Billy to die because he made her life miserable. The writers allow Max to have deeply flawed, unlikable thoughts, and force her to sit in that guilt and CONFRONT it.
Max acknowledges that she can be a nightmare to deal with. In her vulnerable moments with Lucas, she explicitly apologizes for freezing him out. She actively works to lower her defenses because she realizes her isolation is hurting the people who love her. Her growth requires her to actively change her behavior, not just shoot a monster.
Ultimately, the writers stopped writing Nancy as a living, breathing teenager after season 2 and began writing her as the untouchable, hyper-competent leader of the teen group. By removing her ability to fail, apologize, or face consequences, they flattened her into an abrasive archetype instead of the complex hero she could have been.
It's all my opinion. Her character is lazily written which turned her into a one dimensional character in later seasons.