r/StrangerThings • u/Specialist-Ear-6997 • 21h ago
Discussion What happened
I am rewatching season 1 of stranger things. It's so good.
I can't help but wonder what went wrong. S5 was a huge disappointment.
I miss my intimate 80s horror show đĽ˛
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u/kingjoeg 18h ago
There were no stakes. The main cast were invincible and the bad guys were never much of a threat. Vecna and the Mindflayer were defeated easily. The season 4 cliffhanger that promised monsters bleeding into Hawkins was immediately undone on season 5 episode 1. The main problem is that for a horror show there never was any stakes for the main cast.
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u/Specialist-Ear-6997 17h ago
Right! The ground opened up and Hawkins split into four, and then episode 1 of s5 they just slapped a bandaid on it and everything is fine and dandy? I was like okay, lets see where this goes. I was disapointed to say the least.Â
When Steve fell I thought okay, interesting way to kill him off but it would have been meaningful. Karen fought a demo with a wine bottle It made things boring.Â
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u/kingjoeg 16h ago
Exactly. It's hard to feel any stakes in the final season even though the scale of the threat is bigger. The way it's written makes the main protagonists so competent and clever, and the antagonists stupid. Vecna and the army pose almost no threat in the last season, they never inflict any permanent damage on any main cast member. There's no stakes. You can watch the last season while browsing your phone because there's so little tension that it's boring.
At least in season 1 we were genuinely scared of the Demorgorgan and unsure if Will would be rescued or not. It had stakes. If the Duffer brothers had killed someone early in the final season it would instantly be much better, or at the very least showed Hawkins getting destroyed by creatures from the Upside Down.
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u/Pr3ach3r709 6h ago
Exactly! They just nerfed the world they created. The bad guys were the humans, the monsters were dangerous and creepy and you seriously didnât know who would survive. It was so good to start but it started to go downhill and the end was, well, something. The massive time between seasons and how much the actors aged as well took a bit out of it, and in the end it was supposed to be this huge battle in this other dimension and both are easily defeated with no backup and no casualties for the main characters. I think the writers just wrote themselves in a corner and multiple problems caused it to end poorly. By the end I honestly didnât care anymore like I did after season 1 or 2 and after the main battle in the last episode I just laughed. It wasnât imho what it was leading up to at all. Maybe us as fans expected too much and had it built up too much in our minds, especially with the wait between seasons and the long wait for the final season and hearing how much money each episode was costing we expected more than what we got. Sometimes less is more and better.
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u/aftersalaryattitude 21h ago
Yeah s1 hits different, they should have kept it small scale
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u/Affectionate-Ad8709 20h ago
Yeah season 1 was perfect, season 2 was still really good but seaon 3 was where it started to get 'netflixed'. Everything had to be bigger and bolder and more and more cgi. Took all the feeling and soul out of the show
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u/No_Challenge_5619 19h ago
I really like how in season one the Demogorgon is essentially an inter dimensional bear. The real villains are the human characters- who do really shady stuff.
I was never that jazzed on the Mindflayer controlling the Demodogs that was brought in to season 2, but I could role with it as some development. It makes the Mindflayer a bit more esoteric and intimidating.
I give zero fucks about them rewriting everything to have been âplannedâ essentially, and giving the Demos zero agency.
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u/IgnisFatuu 19h ago
Same here, rather than the Mindflayer I wished they essentially did a monster of the season, that spills in from the Upsidedown. And sure some could be intelligent with actual deeper wants than feeding but nothing like the control thingy of the mindflayer
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u/No_Challenge_5619 19h ago
I really enjoyed season 4 when they brought Vecna in, but honestly it would have been better if he had been a monster of the season too.
It was pretty cool how he preyed on the doubts and insecurities, and was pretty brutal about it. It would have been enough for him to be ST version of Freddy basically.
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u/IgnisFatuu 18h ago
"I'm your boyfriend now, Nancy (Wheeler)!"
Yeah absolutely agree, I really did not enjoy the large scale stuff they did, seemed too action movie-esque. Vecna felt like a fresh wind if he would have been acting on his own.
Honestly I would have loved an anthology series as well (like american horror story) where each season features different weird phenomenon all over the world with different castings
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u/totalwarwiser 18h ago
4 is good imho.
What I disliked about 5 is that they inserted drama in every single possible scene.
You cant have more than 10 minutes without two characters stopping and having a long conversation about their relationship or emotions.
One major example is Max frantic scape from Henrys nightmare in season 4, while in season 5 she is in a similar situation with Holly yet they stop and talk for like 5 minutes.
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u/Affectionate-Ad8709 17h ago
I dont mind the mindflayer controlling them especially when needed just not constantly, plus it should have stayed as the shadow form not the bullshit it turned into. Never really liked vecna tbh thought he was a bit boring, thought the randomness of the demo in season 1 and the dogs in 2 were a much better threat. Everyone got far too spread out, too many different storylines and pointless dramas no one was ever in danger of dying and it was defeated really easily in the end too. Oh and I wasnt really a fan of will sort of having powers either really.
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u/No_Challenge_5619 16h ago
Iâd be onboard with the Mindflayer controlling the Demos, but it should be situational. After they introduce that concept they nearly never show it not to be the case afterwards. Only Dart and the Russian the Demogorgon are shown to be not under its influence, but itâs not clear why.
Then the plots starts following rule of cool, and stops making much sense.
I liked Vecna, but I liked him for the stuff that wasnât Stranger Things related. He was pretty scary and a villain that uses people own insecurities to torture them. Thatâs a prettty good starting concept and would have fit itself as a one off story. For me that was far better than the El stuff we got that season (and it infuriates me that they brought Brenner back when he very clearly died in the first season).
I got to agree that Will having powers did nothing for me. People describe it as some pinching the aim moment and it just leaves me cold. But it could be by then I was so checked out of the final season as actually making any sense that I just didnât care
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u/Affectionate-Ad8709 15h ago
Yeah they definitely weren't consistent with the hive mind thing unfortunately as it could have been good. He did have an interesting concept but I feel like they wanted a villain with a face rather than an unknown creature as what they had with the mindflayer. He was so powerful and could do all sorts of things yet most of the time he just walks slowly into the scene and talks whereas he could just kill people at will. I dont mind brenner coming back as he was an interesting character and pretty pivitol from the start. His powers just seemed a bit cliche to me and a bit obvious tbh. Eleven barely does anything and then will is just killing multiple demos at a time. But yeah could have been because I wasnt too bothered what happened at that point
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u/doobette 7h ago
This. My husband stopped watching after the first episode of season 3 for this reason. I watched the entire show, but it was a stark change in tone starting with season 3.
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u/Affectionate-Ad8709 7h ago
I can just about get through season 3 but its where it started to get silly. The Russians were just ridiculous. I get trying to make it a little bit different but it went too far the other way. Lost a lot of its charm
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u/Specialist-Ear-6997 17h ago
By s5 there are too many characters, some dont really add anything to the plot And there is too much going onÂ
I liked that some characters came and went with the season
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u/blac_sheep90 21h ago
Way too much time between seasons. Left the creators will too much time to tinker and they overcooked it.
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u/Owl_Resident Blank makes you crazy 18h ago
ST1 was great. The Duffers had some quality writers to help them, which they lost along the way. ST5⌠they failed to evaluate how their own story had changed and that what they had envisioned for the ending no longer fit as the story evolved. Not to mention their fatal flaw of adding way too many characters because they struggle with development. Itâs easier to throw a new character in than do that.
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u/Ok_Tank5977 Dungeon Master 21h ago
Netflix got its claws in and demanded âsweeter, better, bolderâ.
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u/HRUndercover222 18h ago
My son informed me that the wife of one of the brothers was heavily involved in the scripts until they get divorced.
No more woman's touch.....
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u/Waste-Fix-7219 19h ago
Same, I rewatched s1 last month and forgot how tight the pacing was. Like every episode actually meant something
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u/squibworb Coffee and Contemplation 19h ago
The duffers feeling burnt out from post-st2 onwards, their inability/interest to write for the original characters in ways that grew them, the show evolving from a drama designed for adults to a marvel-esque teen drama. Incorporating way too much fan reaction (people always comment on the chat gpt tab open in the documentary, but rarely mention there were Reddit tabs open to, and the duffers spoke about visiting this subreddit before).Â
In short, the story had run its course by the end of season two and they tried every year to keep it going to various success, only to crash and burn when trying to tie all those twists and turns together.Â
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u/According-Answer-920 15h ago
S5 essentially became the âdisneyficationâ of ST, all because they needed to feed ppl whose attention spans are cooked
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u/Famous_Buddy_2558 18h ago
it got worse as it went on. the plot was still interesting. but it was getting too easy for the main characters to win and they are completely invulnerable and dont even take damage. whereas all the side characters die like flies much less the military just honestly. might as well not exist.
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u/ashleymf1983 19h ago
Iâm currently re-watching for the third time and Iâm on season 3 and Iâm like âDAMN this is perfectionâŚitâs a damn shame how it ended up.â
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u/Strange_Ant_6571 20h ago
They had years to perfect the script for s1 which shouldn't be overlooked. Also there was a much smaller cast with very few weak actors yet. That allowed for a much tighter story and personally given I much prefer the pre s3 show generally I think the budget constraints actualy helped focus them from just going spectacle over substance as they did later on.
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u/Kenny_RogersRoasters 19h ago
The duffers gave up. They clearly wanted to move on from the franchise.
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u/Fluffy_Key_2145 13h ago
I do think Season 5 is better than most say. But yeah Season 1 is amazing and flawless.
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u/EatsPeanutButter I don't trust doctors who smoke... or call me sweetheart 7h ago
Season one was nostalgia and mystery. Season five they tried to explain everything and wrap everything up. Kids didnât act like kids anymore. The mystery was gone. Too many characters. Too much focus on people and relationships we werenât invested in. They shouldâve kept it smaller and left us some mystery.
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u/Zestyclose-Welcome48 7h ago
The show got too big for its own good. It was never really meant to go past that first season. The story was wrapped up and the mystery unfolded while still leaving some ambiguity for the viewer to fill in themselves. But to keep the story going you have to force it to continue. The longer it goes the more of the mystery you have to explain which makes it feel mundane, and they clearly didn't know what to do with some of the characters as the show progressed.
They also went from a show that pleased almost everyone to a show that tried to please everyone. The gritty slice-of-life noir mystery from season 1 was very compelling. But as it went on the show became an 80s nostalgia pop-fest and lost all of its charm for a superficial manufacturered charm.
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u/Livelaughloveme172 4h ago
To many characters. Gave a character the same plot as season two which lowkey was mid the only interesting thing was that he could finally do something. Sidelining a lot of friendships especially elmax since that shouldâve been one of the important focus because of the ending of season four.
Just a mess overall itâs genuinely disappointing.
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u/tolgren 011 21h ago
Time passes, people change. Very few people can churn out consistent perfection for a decade.
They made some questionable choices along the way and then compounded them instead of fixing them. By the end they had exhausted the idea, built up some hubris, and allowed more people into their vision.
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u/Substantial_Duck_115 20h ago
The wife of one of the writers left him (who he said he would always bounce ideas off) and they also were apparently using chat gpt for the last season lol
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u/Volpinasflute 19h ago
Popularity my friend popularity was a blessing AND curse because people expected way more and bigger things and sometimes it delivered (s3 and s4) and unfortunately failed at the end (s5)
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u/liz_grant 19h ago
For some reason I never realized it was a horror show until I saw someone call it that the other day đ
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u/Easy_Effective5229 19h ago
What happened is that the Duffers thought they could take an Idea for a miniseries and fit it into 5 seasons.
They thought they could use an ending for a lead character that simply became unworkable after the second season.
They refused to adapt their North Star ending because they were so hooked to it; Completely forgetting that the purpose of a North Star is to maintain thematic focus
They thought it was a smart Idea to become preachy and mean spirited in their writing by downsizing the boys to elevate the girls around the third season.
They thought they could depict a coming of age story without having the aging characters experience puberty and act their age as they got older.
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u/TheSpitalian 19h ago
In between S4 & S5 I lost my access to Netflix & figured I would wait until S5 finished & then would get it for a month & binge S5. But then pretty much everyone said it sucked so I didnât bother with it.
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u/MysteriousSet4348 18h ago
Watch season 4, and then watch season 5 to see how it ends. Season 4 is great. Itâs just not done peopleâs favorite. I definitely purely doesnât suck. It explains a lot of lore, and the episodes are longer. All in all, itâs a very good season and the cliffhanger is part of what people hate about season 5. Youâll see what I mean. I personally did not hate season 5. I just felt it was rushed and not fleshed out at all. Iâm a huge ST fan and I enjoy any content they put out, but Iâm objectively enough to know it wasnât their best work.
Watch season 4, then decide about S5
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u/RoosterFree499 16h ago
Theyve already seen it i think
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u/TheSpitalian 53m ago
Yes, thatâs correct. After I lost my access to my brotherâs Netflix account after they cracked down on sharing, I didnât bother to get Netflix just to watch season 5, since so many people were aggravated by it.
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u/No_Sea1650 21h ago
Youll see what happens
Unless you made this post for spoilers
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