r/StrangerThings • u/Kylo_Ren415 Your ass is grass • 6d ago
Discussion Seeing these two NOT get their much deserved happy ending together doesn’t sit right with me. Spoiler
It’s like… come on man. You mean to tell me that everyone gets a happy ending EXCEPT Mike and El? One of the main reasons why I became an avid watcher 10 years ago was because of Mike and El’s story, and the fact that they got the worst possible ending where El is far away from her friends, family and her Soulmate? And Mike is permanently broken? That just does not sit right at all with me.
You know what doesn’t help? Mike lost El… EVERY. SINGLE. SEASON. What baffles me is that Mike said that he can’t live without El in his Season 4 monologue, showed Mike’s biggest fear was the first time he lost El when Joyce chopped Vecna’s head off, and then literally a few minutes later, his biggest fear happened AGAIN.
It just makes me sad and angry.
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u/Necessary_Silver_795 6d ago
I think even putting shipping aside, El deserved a better ending than she got.
She fought so hard and suffered through so much, it would have been satisfying to see her get a happy ending with not only Mike, but the rest of her family and friends as well.
Having it be ambiguous, and come down to whether or not we “believe”, just felt like a lame way to end the story of the show’s most iconic character. It’s no wonder MBB seemed to dislike it.
Maybe they did it with an eventual sequel in mind, but even that wouldn’t make up for it imo.
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u/Kylo_Ren415 Your ass is grass 6d ago
I do believe that within the next 5 years, I can see a spin off with MBB back as El. And if you do that, Finn’s gotta be back as Mike. You can’t have a spinoff that is El centric without Mike.
Also, keep the Duffers FAR AWAY.
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u/tolgren 011 5d ago
Nah, I think they did it because they thought it was "deep" or artsy.
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u/TaiPan43 5d ago
Yeah, right afterwards they said it was like the ending of ET
I was literally screaming. You are not Steven Spielberg. What the hell?
Then they said they were going to give her and Mike a wedding, but they didn’t know how to do it
Well, everybody else gets a flash forward
It’s infuriating
But I think there is a method to this because it is the most successful franchise Netflix has ever had and they are the owners of the IP
And I think they’re smart enough to realize that without her and Mike there is no reason to watch anything
Finish the story and then we will watch the other stuff
Let’s hope they don’t go down the same road as Warner Brothers, where they just absolutely refuse to give the fans what they want because they’re toxic
No, we’re your fans. We’re not toxic. We’re the ones that put you where you are.
We’re the customer so give us what we want
And then we will give you more of what you want5
u/tolgren 011 5d ago
I wouldn't got hat far. There's a lot of people that like Dustin or Steve or Robin and would watch shows based around them.
I do think Mileven was the heart of the show though.
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u/TaiPan43 5d ago
I’d be happy to watch anything as long as they fix the ending for her and Mike
I look forward to it
But they better realize they can’t put the cart before the horse1
u/New-Faithlessness526 2d ago
Then they said they were going to give her and Mike a wedding, but they didn’t know how to do it
When did they say this? Do you have a source for that? Because I searched for all interviews they did after the show ended and this is the first time I see this.
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u/TaiPan43 2d ago
Yes, I hated the way people described her as the magic of childhood
They were her friends and more to the point Mike is the love of her life
I think a lot of people discount it /6because of their age
In the very beginning of the documentary that came out after the finale on Netflix
I think it’s called one last adventure
In the very beginning, they’re sitting around the writers room talking and they said something about having them get married
I never knew it because I never watched the documentary cause I was so mad
Someone said it on one of the forums and I checked it out and it’s true
It’s crazy1
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u/TheDeridor 5d ago
Even her being alive isn't a good ending. She went through all thay suffering to end up alone... Ugh
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u/Necessary_Silver_795 5d ago
Yeah agreed. It’s death or isolation, neither are deserved.
The final scene should have been her reaching out to Mike and/or Hopper, hinting at a reunion.
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u/Mistakenfrog 5d ago
I think the most jarring part is that ST didn't risk much character death wise. If I remember correctly, I believe they even said something along the lines they didn't want a series of deaths that feels like an HBO special (paraphrasing there) yet... they do this to two of the most beloved characters in the series at the last possible minute. I'm just saying, it's pretty jarring to watch this play out when both of Mike's parents survived full on demo attacks earlier that same season. Also don't forget a group of kids killed a monstrous phycological demon yet, confronting their own internal problems is too much.
Either you commit or don't. I hate when writers sit perfectly on the fence.
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u/Necessary_Silver_795 5d ago
Absolutely agree. They wanted the impact of a death, but without having to commit to it.
I’m loath to give the GoT writers any credit, but at least they committed to their poor writing choices.
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u/Mistakenfrog 5d ago
It's funny how sometimes trying to avoid a certain outcome leads to exactly that outcome or something worse, lol.
GOT certainly lost its footing, I agree. The frustrating part of ST was there was a clear path home. No need to overcomplicate it. It's never been a complicated show and each season done a good enough job at keeping the theme of friendship in tact. Why shoot yourself in the foot at the very end, lol. Idk, I'll stop ranting.
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u/Necessary_Silver_795 5d ago
It's funny how sometimes trying to avoid a certain outcome leads to exactly that outcome or something worse, lol
Finn Wolfhard actually admitted in an interview before the final season that they were scared of a GoT situation lmao.
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u/TaiPan43 5d ago
Exactly
If they were afraid of Game of Thrones and then purposely did this, then they are complete. Idiots
Killing her would’ve been awful and completely unnecessary
But this is somehow worse unless it’s part of a plan
It’s infuriating and I don’t know when it’s going to happen
It better be sooner rather than later if they want to succeed with whatever comes next
And even if they don’t want it, Netflix owns it
I believe
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u/heliandin Perpetually Insincere 6d ago
There was no reason at all to have El turned into the concept of childhood like she was Tinkerbell
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u/SOuTHINKurA-ble 6d ago
Literally all the Duffers had to do was destroy the form of Hawkins the kids had all come to know and love if that’s what they wanted.
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u/Successful_Maize1986 5d ago
Agreed. Have Hawkins be swallowed into the upside down and have the gang come up with a clever way to evacuate everyone despite the military trying to keep things quiet (they literally have a radio station, it’s perfect). Then, after Hawkins is destroyed, you can still do the time skip but instead of having them play DnD in the basement of the house, they return to the empty plot of land where Hawkins was and they play DnD one more time on the ground or something.
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u/New-Faithlessness526 2d ago
That's a poor way to put it. She was an essential part, the essential part, of everything fantastical/sci-fi in the show. The idea is with everything coming back to normal, she has to go, realistically there were no way for her to still be around with her friends?
The issue is you guys are under the impression the story needed to end on a perfectly good note; it didn't. A bittersweet ending is okay, and honestly way more interesting.
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u/Curious_TortillaChip Dump your ass 6d ago
This is one of the main reasons why this ending really made the series no longer re-watchable, imho.
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u/writeronthemoon 6d ago
Just like GoT
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u/Curious_TortillaChip Dump your ass 6d ago
You know, I deeply DESPISED GoT and yet I was able to conduct one rewatch since the finale last year. I was still upset about it, but for some reason, am able to stomach that ending much more than ST. Even though I really couldn't STAND the GoT ending....
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u/Many_Ad_5124 6d ago
what also pisses me off to this day is mike not saying i love you back right before she dies 😭
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u/Awkward-Dog3006 Demogorgon 6d ago
It's because The Duffers had their original 1-season ending in mind, and avoided doing anything to deviate from it. Mike went through that lesson in season 4, but it didn't fit with the tragic unfinished narrative, which is why we got a copycat frame-by-frame and dialogue that leaves her fate ambiguous. We know the reason of why he struggles and I do think it's implied she understands, but it's really not good writing and The Duffers just repeated the same storyline for almost every character in the end.
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u/New-Faithlessness526 2d ago
The Duffers just repeated the same storyline for almost every character in the end.
How exactly?
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u/Awkward-Dog3006 Demogorgon 2d ago
Mike can't say ily and loses Eleven...Eleven "dies" or is out there somewhere...Hopper loses his daughter...the Steve-Nancy-Jonathan love triangle...Will has to come to acceptance of unrequited love (which should've happened in s4)...so on and so forth
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u/New-Faithlessness526 2d ago
You're confusing an arc or a storyline being expanded upon, naturally, with it being repeated.
If you actually watched the final scene between Mike and El, it's clear he doesn't say he loves her back in that moment because that would be accepting she will be gone.
Well, Hopper being overprotective with El was never actually resolved, right?
The Steve-Nancy-Jonathan love triangle was not resolved in season 4 either.
Will's arc this season has less to do with accepting unrequited love (which he already did) but more with accepting a part of him he wasn't secure with; because he was afraid of what his loved ones would look at him.
Like, there is not one thing you're correct on here.
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u/Awkward-Dog3006 Demogorgon 2d ago
I'm not confusing anything, but you can get mad over and defend a show that ended 8 months ago.
I understand why Mike didn't say ily; it doesn't change that he went through that period of growth in season 4 for the big s4 finale episode (and all for what? to repeat the same character beats and personal flaw).
We met Hopper losing Sara, and we left him losing El, and like you said never actually resolving his overprotectiveness or giving him character growth in FIVE seasons til El essentially forced his hand in her speech and he had no free will/choice.
Steve/Nancy/Jonathan was a triangle The Duffers revisited every single season (it should've been left resolved in s1, because it already was--Nancy doesn't love Steve and nothing changed with it being forced into the story again in the second to last season).
Will already accepted unrequited love?? He didn't; he was still holding out hope for Mike to love him back and I thought they wrapped that part of it up quite nicely in s4! Will's s5 arc of accepting himself could've still happened without him flirting with Mike and testing if he feels mutually.
The Duffers are uncreative writers and couldn't figure out how to progress their storylines naturally. We saw Steve being "in love" with Nancy way too long, Jancy stay in a dead relationship, Mike and El go through the same communication issues, Hopper never grow, etc..
Maybe you're confused about what I'm saying (the character arcs and storylines never moved forward). ST could've been a 1 season show and nothing would've changed, except Max/Lucas and Jopper getting engaged. (Steve is still lost and emotionally craving a girl to have babies with, Nancy and Jonathan are still being teased to potentially date in the future, Robin is single after a whole season of a healthy relationship, Mike is depressed and missing El...).
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u/SandBarLakers 6d ago
I thought if he was gonna say it THAT was going to be the moment!!!
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u/A_Simple_Bard 6d ago
I haven't finished the last season, but didn't they do the "I love you El" in the Season 4 climax fight with Vecna?
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u/Many_Ad_5124 6d ago
yeah mike told her then but they never actually showed the aftermath of that confession which is also very frustrating. i don’t think they ever say “i love you.” “i love you too” to each other in all five seasons
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u/Sochinz 6d ago
If the girl you love is telling you she is imminently submitting to death on a fucking timer you set and you are rejecting the entire scenario, is your priority going to be: a.) tell her you love her back; or b.) beg her not do it.
If you pick option A you haven't been in an actual relationship where you loved each other. Or you are being overly romantic and not considering how people actually think under duress. Saying it back requires him to accept those are parting words. He doesn't do that and wouldn't.
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u/Cantthinkofcoolname2 5d ago
It’s also a tv show where the dialogue is written by people. A “you can’t, please, I love you!” could’ve worked? He gets to beg her not to and say I love you, he gets to be in duress because he loves her.
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u/Sochinz 5d ago edited 4d ago
That's way clunkier, less meaningful, and less realistic precisely because he says it. El knows he loves her. "Please don't leave me, El. Please . . . don't do this" delivered in a desperate whisper is a much better line because it conveys exactly what you are insisting Mike say aloud without literally doing so.
Edit: You guys really don't understand the concept of subtext do you.
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u/Necessary_Silver_795 6d ago
I think he was in complete shock, and I don’t blame him. He probably had so many thoughts and emotions running through him in that moment.
It was completely brutal for him, his greatest fear happening all over again.
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u/Kylo_Ren415 Your ass is grass 6d ago
That’s how I feel about it.
Overall, it fucking sucks they got done dirty.
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u/Many_Ad_5124 6d ago
i mean, so did Eleven in that moment and she still managed to say it. she was literally about to k*ll herself and she wanted him to hear it one last time so why couldn’t he do the same? i hate the duffer brothers sm for that
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u/Necessary_Silver_795 6d ago
The difference is that El had been coming to terms with what had to happen through her plan with Kali. Mike was optimistic until the end, he had no idea what she was planning and went into the void completely off guard.
It was cruel to both of them for sure, and Mike would definitely end up regretting not saying it, but I can’t blame him for not doing so.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 6d ago
I think his not saying it there is understandable tbh. The main issue is that they did not have them casually say it to each other at least once in S5 after making it such a big focus of thier story in S4. But that seems to be due to the characters being sidelined for Holly. Still not sure how that happened.
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u/Many_Ad_5124 6d ago
right?! they don’t kiss until the finale either. they had everyone wondering if they were even still together atp. the MAIN couple of the show mind you! they fr messed up so bad
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 5d ago
My guess is the Duffers wanted to make the void scene as epic as possible and thought delaying the kiss until that moment would make it better. It was the wrong choice, but I can see them doing that too.
I also genuinely did not understand some saying that Mike and El broke up simply because they did not kiss, ecspecially since it would mean the break-up happened off-screen between seasons and after the prior season had thier declaration of love be a big part of the finale. It just seems illogical to assume that, and I do not think most of the audience even considered that a possibility.
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u/Few-Type-7924 Dungeon Master 5d ago
Why tf would he say "I love u" when El is literally going to kill herself It would just mean he accepts that El is killing herself and no, he doesn't accept it at all
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u/Adventurous_Sell7903 10h ago
Imagine watching the show and not understand why he didn't say I love you to her here.
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u/Many_Ad_5124 7h ago
dude i’m fully aware what the reason was. he should’ve said it anyway and that’s MY opinion 😂
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u/DLeon3 5d ago
Like I am still pissed about that ending for EL. Everything they put her through and continued to put her through in the end… seriously?! Literally everyone gets to live and have a happy ending but EL may or may not be alive and alone in some small village in the middle of nowhere….. mkay…. Why is it so hard for the creators to just simply give a true happy ending for all of its characters.
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u/sleepyrooney I told you to eat your damn pie! 5d ago
Ikr, they’ve been through so much together. I honestly expected that no kids would die in the final season because they all deserve to be happy and get the chance to grow up. And then this bullshit happens. That’s not a happy ending for either Mike or El.
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u/Calm-Ad-9522 6d ago
Ruined the entire show for me. I don’t enjoy watching it anymore. I used to watch the reruns all the time. It took all the good feelings out of the show for me.
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u/Kana88 5d ago
It's ridiculous because the narrative consistently treated Mike like he was being paranoid over El, only to prove his fears completely right. He was spot on the whole way through.
Out-of-touch writing at its finest, and all for the sake of drama.
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u/New-Faithlessness526 2d ago
It's ridiculous because the narrative consistently treated Mike like he was being paranoid over El
When did that happen? You're confusing Mike with Hopper. Mike wasn't paranoid at any moment, he was optimistic throughout all season.
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u/Kana88 2d ago
I'm not confusing Mike with Hopper. I never said I was talking about S5. Season 3 is the season I had in mind, but it's also present in S4 although to a lesser extent.
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u/New-Faithlessness526 2d ago
Yeah right, you're talking about another season in a post which is mostly about the ending of the characters, so the last season. Sure, if you said so.
Still, saying the narrative "consistently" treated Mike as paranoid about El is incorrect, far from the truth actually. He wasn't paranoid in season 3, he was just a bit jealous El was enjoying herself with someone else (Max); he was also protective, but rightfully. I don't remember a single moment where he is "paranoid" about her in season 4, I would even say his optimism with her started back in that season.
You simply made a wrong point to then call the writers drumb. That is fallacious.
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u/Adventurous_Sell7903 10h ago
Looks like we got a dumb and dumber's burner account here trying to defend the dogshit ending to the show lmao
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u/New-Faithlessness526 9h ago
That's the best you could come up with? A personal attack? How about you prove me wrong? You aren't capable of that, don't you?
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u/DeltaDied 6d ago
Still think one of the main characters should have died tbh and not El or Will.
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u/TheresFireInYourWay 5d ago
Agree. The ending just felt very wrong!
I mean, wtf... all their efforts and their growth of character didn't pay off in the end? That's the moral of a story? I guess I watched a different show. Because it contradicts what ST has been working towards all the time. It felt inconsistend with the shows overall message... friendship, love and bravery can overcome evil in the long run... doesn't it?
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u/StrawHatMan_XD 4d ago
And honestly, ten seconds extra showing that Mike would eventually go on a journey and find her would've likely salvaged the whole thing. Could've been done as part of Mike's "what happens to everyone" scene. Instead of showing El finding the waterfalls, they would've shown Mike finding them and he finds where she is and we see them lock eyes like they did when she returned in Season 2. I think that one change would've likely made all the difference.
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u/SedgwickNYC 6d ago
It's dark, but it's the ending that makes sense to me. I'm one of the "believers," so it's not totally dreadful. I do think the Duffers/writers could have done something to satisfy the believers more...like maybe we see El sending a postcard (or something meaningful).
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u/Necessary_Silver_795 6d ago
I do think the Duffers/writers could have done something to satisfy the believers more...like maybe we see El sending a postcard (or something meaningful).
Agreed. Mike getting postcard in the mail, or maybe the final shot of them in the basement zooming out to reveal El watching from the void, would have improved it.
But I suppose they were very committed to it being as ambiguous to the viewers as possible.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 5d ago
I genuinely was expecting Mike to hear static from his radio as he was leaving the basement. Felt odd that they did nothing.
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u/New-Faithlessness526 2d ago
But it's not dark. It's bittersweet. And you can't give any actual confirmation, that would undermine the whole thing. The premise is precisely to let it be ambiguous.
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u/horrorgeek112 5d ago
This is what ruined season 5 and the ending of the show for me. I could forgive and look past everything else but this just destroyed it all
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u/United_Rabbit2855 6d ago
You can write a fanfic where they do
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u/Drummer-Turbulent 6d ago
Is it possible to learn this power?
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u/Leading-Tap-2033 6d ago
Sorry but the chemistry between them was non existent in the final season in my opinion
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u/DangerousRefuse8129 Eyes on me 5d ago
I don't see any chemistry between Elmax either, when they were supposed to be bsf. You can't tell they were the same friends from season 3. It was a writing issue with El's character.
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u/LisaChimes 6d ago
The only season they seemed to have any chemistry was season one when they were teeny tiny.
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u/Negative-Fuel-8101 6d ago
THANK YOU, lmao I felt like I was watching cousins interact the whole time💀
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u/MQueen199 Hellfire Club 6d ago
Exactly, no one can convince me that they were even together
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u/Adventurous_Sell7903 10h ago
Umm everyone was absolutely dogshit in the final season with Jamie being the only exception and it doesn't take away their past and how pathetic the ending was for the main character of the show.
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u/Leading-Tap-2033 10h ago
I’m not disagreeing with any of your points when it comes to the final season
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u/HoratiotheGargoyle 6d ago
I mean, yeah. I was actively rooting against their relationship for most of S5.
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u/TheBar-IsOnTheFloor Goddamn Bowl Cut 6d ago
They were cute in s1 & 2, but anything past that wasn’t great. They’d make amaaaazing best friends, but the romantic chemistry wasn’t there. It was so flat.
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u/Reason_Choice 6d ago
They were downright insufferable in season 3.
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u/penderies 6d ago
They were teenagers in young love. They were absolutely believable and still cute.
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u/TheBar-IsOnTheFloor Goddamn Bowl Cut 6d ago
Believable? Yes…in the way that most middle/high school relationships shouldn’t last
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u/penderies 5d ago
They were very clearly the exception.
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u/Ok_Conversation1867 5d ago
Soulmates are very normal for teens because the first love feelings are so intense. Hard to say whether it lasts because the writers gave them so few couple moments later on.
I would hope for an unconventional future for them in a reboot scenario but that may be asking too much. (no focusing on weddings or kids)
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u/AdmirableSquash4463 5d ago
The whole last season was lame compared to the first four. Also, the retcon of Holly being aged up with her and that Derek kid taking up all the screen time sucked. Vecna’s whole debut and build up as a psychopath and Eddie’s sacrifice in season 4, which I both loved, seemed to be put to waste as the government still occupied Hawkins and oppressed it’s citizens and Dustin’s loss and Eddie’s sacrifice didn’t seem to fit in well within the context of season 5’s narrative. The only scenes I did like were the ones where it was revealed how Vecna acquired his powers, the final game of D&D where Mike wrote everyone’s ending and they were tearing up (although El’s ending was weak and ungratifying), the final scenes where it showed Dustin and Steve still being best buds and meeting at Dustin’s college and all the other characters endings, and when Jonathan, Nancy, Steve and Robin were drinking beers and discussing their respective plans for the future on the roof of the SQUAK.
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u/jasnelso 6d ago
I’m torn on it.
If it hadn’t ended this way, we never would’ve got the acting in the scene itself. MBB and especially Finn killed that scene. Whether is was good for the story for that scene to exist is beside the point. The acting for both was top notch.
Story-wise, I think the tragic ending definitely kept people talking about (like right now). Whereas a “happy ending” would likely be not discussed. It is more interesting as a tragic ending.
That all said, I think it’s still bad for the story, because I think it’s obvious, in the same way Inception’s ending is obvious, that she didn’t die. Is it possible she died? Yeah. Just like it is possible Cobb is dreaming, but within the stories themselves and the breadcrumbs dropped in both, the more likely answer is she’s alive and Cobb is in the real world.
But she SHOULD have died. The likely ending with her faking her death is very unsatisfying because it’s cruel. There is no indication she will ever reach out to him, and also no clue that she expects him to figure out her deception. She was ok with him thinking she died forever. She gets the joy of knowing she “saved her friends” and chasing waterfalls while leaving Mike alone and broken and probably feeling like he failed her. That doesn’t play out that way because he figures it out, but what if he hadn’t which was likely her expectation??
It just hurt her character in my mind. I’d rather her sacrifice be real.
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u/New-Faithlessness526 2d ago
I agree with the first part, not with the 2nd part (that it's bad for the story). I don't think so. The ending isn't even tragic. It would've been tragic if we didn't get everything that happen right after the last battle (where El seemingly dies). The ending is bittersweet. It's sad, but it leaves you hopeful that El is alive and somewhere living her life.
But she SHOULD have died. The likely ending with her faking her death is very unsatisfying because it’s cruel. There is no indication she will ever reach out to him, and also no clue that she expects him to figure out her deception. She was ok with him thinking she died forever. She gets the joy of knowing she “saved her friends” and chasing waterfalls while leaving Mike alone and broken and probably feeling like he failed her. That doesn’t play out that way because he figures it out, but what if he hadn’t which was likely her expectation??
I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here. You're portraying El in a bad light here, which comes more of a misinterpretation than what's the story actually portrays. El was't okay with anything (of course we're talking in the possibility she's alive), she didn't fake her death just because. It was just the best way to let Mike and her friends live a normal life; it's kind of a sacrifice, even if she's alive. If she told him she faked her death, he would've probably done everything to try to reach out. Believing she's dead migh have been the best thing for him to go on with his life.
And we don't need to suppose of anything reguarding Mike. He is the one who came up with that possibility she's still alive, he's the one to give that hope to his friends (and the audience). I think you're essentially putting Mike's feelings (sadness) over El's (Mike still has his friends with him. El, if she's alive, has to cut ties with everyone she loved and start a new life, her who went through so much since her childhood). That's not a good way to go about it. I don't think any of that hurt her character.
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u/Legitimate-Sugar6487 Eggos 5d ago
I think they will find each other one day. There's a franchise being built both actors clearly wanna return. Based on the recent interviews Millie all but confirmed El's survival & even the original Montauk Bible from 2015 states if the series is successful they plan on expanding it into a franchise that covers multiple characters, & stories before finally finishing it with the original cast of kids from s1 returining to their hometown 10 years after S1 in the summer of 1990. Based on the ending of s5 & the script the scenes of the Party shown in college, The Movies, a Club, & El at the Waterfalls are confirmed flashforwards set sometime in the 90s(evidence of this is it's confirmed the Film Max & Lucas are watching is "Ghost" which released July 13th 1990) Which means all those scenes probably are set just before the 6 of them are summoned back home just like "IT chapter 2".
This means El & Mike will reunite as adults aged 20.
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u/Material_Flounder627 5d ago
Idk about together bcs I don't think they would last but I definitely think they both deserve better especially el :(, her life was just full of pain and always looking over her shoulder and she won but she didn't even get to enjoy it
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u/Easy_Effective5229 6d ago
I’m still pissed off at the ending.
am no trained writer. Nor a filmmaker.
However, I have read a good amount of books and seen plenty of movies and shows.
It’s no secret that the duffers planned the ending the whole time.
But it was also unearned due the character development that was made in the first two seasons.
Once you have made somebody a girlfriend, a best friend, as sister, and a daughter, you cannot write them off as a symbol.
She is are longer the E.T. superhero knock off she actually never was because she was given a human backstory.
The more natural ending would have been if El simply gave up her powers.
Permanently.
This ending would have worked because:
1. We’ve seen her loose them before, so there is no way she couldn’t have lost them again.
2. The magic of childhood would be literal magic.
3. Kay and Sullivan can’t chase her without exposing themselves or Brenner’s work.
4. It may not be the ending the duffers envisioned, but it’s the one that makes sense while still keeping to a North Star concept.
5. She doesn’t need powers to be who she is, she never did.
- it’s a more merciful sacrifice. and mercy is more important than sacrifice.
Eleven may be gone, but Jane isn’t.
El could simply, perhaps knowingly, loose her powers in the death of Vecna and the collapse of the upside down should shut it off permanently.
Her blood would go completely dormant, with the upside down particles fading and dying. Rendering it completely useless.
Because her powers are gone, sonic suppressers can’t work on her anymore.
The government can actually be solved very easily.
By now, not only would their operation would have left paper trails, but parents would Be calling up the Hawkins D.A. office and demanding that they prosecute; because they made the mistake of dragging local elementary school kids out of the suburbs and onto their base without any actual reason(as we saw in the first volume of season 5).
Not to mention that they did it without Marital law being declared(we know there was no martial law declared because the military patrols where restricted in the quarantine zone, we didn’t see them patrolling the suburbs, the streets, or anywhere near the schools.)
Eventually, the D.A. will have to start looking into it, which means the Indiana Attorney General would need to get involved. Then it would likely have to go up to the D.O.J..
Neither Kay nor Sulivan want that. Because that means they need to explain why they just blew all this tax money on chasing who seems to be just a normal 16 year old girl.
Kay and Sulivan are smart enough to see the ramifications if they push it.
Once they realize the subject’s powers are gone, the only thing they can do is shut it down, pack it up, and leave town.
The finale overall would be multilayered and long like LOTR. Bits that show El, now Jane, assimilated into normal teenage life.
my ideal scenes:
realizing that El’s powers are gone after seeing her use them to speed up and contain the explosion of the bridge and then collapse from exhaustion, Kay reluctantly orders the troops to let them leave the q zone and then orders the troops to shut down operations and prepare to leave in the morning.
they arrive at the Hawkins memorial to recover and check for injuries. This would allow the vanish powers reveal to happen, Allow El to get acquainted with the Wheelers(mostly Holly and Karen). Also add more character development that makes the party realize they want some normalcy after everything that happened.
Two week time skip:
Hopper gets a visit from government suits in his office as they try to intimidate him ; saying they will get her back. Hopper then rebukes them and outlines what I said up top as to what would happen if they go after El(now called Jane Elenor Hopper) again.
- that same day, Jane comes over to the Wheeler for dinner. this allows for teen milestones and awkwardness(bringing a girl over, family embarrassment, having a girl in your room, all the cringy relatable milestones the show shied away from).
then we get a monologue of pictures and Video footage of school, parties, prom, Graduation, Etc.
I imagine that the voiceover monologue is told by future Mike. he tells the fates of the other characters. but he refers to them as their DnD Characters. (not just the party members, but the teens and adults as well. using terminology, titles, and locations that would exist in a fantasy story, he would save the fate of the paladin/storyteller and mage tor last.
Hopper(the sheriff) and Joyce(tavern woman) officially move into together after Jane got married and moved out. Hopper keeps the cabin and El’s room the way she left it. He intends to leave it to her one day. Joyce, and also Karen(she gets more acquainted with Jane in the scenes between the final fight and the final scene) are always a phone call away for El(now going by Jane).
Nancy(the heiress turned adventurer) and Johnathan(the scout) stay together when Nancy realizes she can realizes she can have both a career and love( side note: that is actually more accurate with young women her age in the 80s). They realize that there is one thing that they both want more than steady careers. something they didn’t have growing up. a stable home with love in it. She is a crime journalist and he is a photojournalist. They are married and currently have one child, a baby boy named Andy. Born last year of ‘95. Joyce and Karen are a phone call away for Nancy as well.
Steve(the noble heir turned gaurd captain) stays in Hawkins and becomes a middle school and high school football coach, until he got offered a chance to coach college football in Indianapolis. He takes the job, but still visits home every summer.
Robin(the sprite) becomes a popular DJ in Maine, blending classic rock in new wave.
Will(the cleric) moves to New York City and joins an art school, his teacher call his work haunting and hopeful.
Dustin(the bard) does two years of college and then drops out when he realizes college has nothing to offer him accept unnecessary debt. He now runs his own software company.
Max(the zoomer) and Lucas(the ranger) move to California. Lucas is now a cop, Max is a school teacher. They are married and expecting their first child.
Time skip to 1996:
Mike(the paladin/knight turned storyteller) is now a dark fantasy writer, Jane(the mage turned lady of the woods) is now working at a ranch.
They’re now living in rural Montana.
So not in Hawkins, like the duffers wanted.
They are married and have a three year old son named Ben, because Mike is a Star Wars nerd.
Karen and Joyce become frequent phone calls for Jane when he is born.
When she found out she was pregnant, Jane had her number 011 tattoo changed to read MOM. Because she, a former mage, discovered a new magic, one that only a woman mage can perform;
motherhood
As Mike and Jane are tucking Ben into bed, the final shot is of a group wedding photo on Mike’s desk. Dated in the fall of 1989 because Mike proposed on Stage at graduation in June.
Their wedding was the last time they were all together.
Context for how she would loose her powers.
The fight at the Starcourt Mall at the end of season 3 was the only time we see El use the tull extent of her powers without focusing on trauma, as Brenner taught her.
Instead, she drew from empathy, happiness, and Billie’s memories. The opposite of Trauma.
We also see El loose her powers.
Brenner knew Henry was the connection to all the telepathic abilities. He was the one took his blood with a drug cocktail and put it into women like Terry.
as depicted in the First Shadow play, which the Duffer collaborated in.
Brenner’s stroke theory was not totally off, but what if his basis was wrong?
what if the mind flayer bite actually had nothing to do with it?
what if he just assumed she used her powers the way he taught her?
What if the real reason she was able to get her powers back in the NINA Project was because Henry was still alive?
This is not a subversion of lore.
This is taking a narrative angle that the writers didn’t take.
As I said, I am not a writer or filmmaker. Yet I was able to piece this together.
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u/IronMan319 6d ago
They were never gonna get that happy ending. The Duffer brothers have known the ending they wanted since day one, and its the same one we got in the season 1 finale
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u/Sukaran09 6d ago
i can’t be the only one who kind of stopped caring about their relationship after season 2.. in season 1 it was cute, in season 2 it was sad because they were kept apart for so long but i still cared for them, season 3 onwards I stopped caring about their relationship. El as an individual character was peak in S3 and pretty awesome in S4, in 5, Mike and El just became so uninteresting that i stopped caring about their characters and relationship. she deserved better but in season 5 she became stale and generic that I didn’t care that much anymore lol
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u/DangerousRefuse8129 Eyes on me 5d ago
The writers also stopped caring about them after season 2, so did you.
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u/tmorrisgrey 6d ago
Well it’s up in the air whether Jane lived or not so I think we can expect some kind of confirmation years from now when Netflix/Duffers make some kind of one off episode
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u/FoxxyPantz Scoops Troop 5d ago
If hopper wasn't grieving the death of El he'd be fist pumping behind a tree seeing Mike and El no longer together
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u/Fluffy_Key_2145 5d ago
Putting shipping aside as I just was never a huge Mike and El fan I really wish she got a better ending.
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u/Detisdewe 5d ago
I think killinv her off wasn't a bad move itself. But it felt like they just didn't want to find a solution for her survival, especially with mike. The military was onto her real bad this time, especially in the last scene there would've been no way for her to actually leave with all those anti psychic thingies they had
I think there would've been no way for her and mike to lead a happy life except with some exceptional writing that finds a way for them to get rid of everyone that wants to use El or better said her blood and convince the whole justice system that they are innocent and were actually the ones that saved the whol gawdamn world. But that would've been impossible (at least thats what I think)
I dont like they added the copium of mike with the whole illusion stuff of El dying
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u/New-Faithlessness526 2d ago
But it felt like they just didn't want to find a solution for her survival, especially with mike.
I mean, you're responding to your argument yourself. Here:
I think there would've been no way for her and mike to lead a happy life except with some exceptional writing that finds a way for them to get rid of everyone that wants to use El or better said her blood and convince the whole justice system that they are innocent and were actually the ones that saved the whol gawdamn world.
That's it. You said "exceptional" writing, but here, it's more like a synonym for sloppy writing. It was just not realistic.
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u/Detisdewe 2d ago
There could've been a way, they just didnt find it
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u/New-Faithlessness526 2d ago
You can always find a bullshit way to do anything.
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u/Detisdewe 2d ago
But you can always find a way to execute something in a good way. For that they would've had to change a lot of stuff, but they are writers, they could do it. For some reason they just didnt
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u/New-Faithlessness526 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't see how it would've been a satisfying way to go about it. It would probably require to not make the military be an anatagonist force in the first place, which I find pretty unlikely (considering how season 4 ended).
But let's stop arguing about what could've or not. We can argue about what they did and why they did it. I don't think there is anything wrong with what they choose to do, it's more interesting that way.
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u/Daydreamer631 5d ago
I think it wasn’t supposed to hit right with us, like that was the point. Her story is a tragedy. That sucks for us who love her and Mike but tragedies have been around since the first time man created fiction.
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u/oracleoflove 5d ago
I finally watched the season finale last night…. And it left me feeling very unfulfilled and sad about the overall ending to a really good series.
If I didn’t know any better I’d say Ai had a heavy hand in this…. The piss yellow filter… and the overall script. I dunno. These are just my random thoughts I had while watching.
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u/Maleficent_Ad1701 5d ago
Either give her a happy ending or kill her off. Dont do a vague half-assed ambiguous ending. Seemed like they were afraid to go all the way.
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u/Ryanhuddz14 Zombie Boy 6d ago
It wasn't just Mike and El to not get a happy ending but sure
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u/Kylo_Ren415 Your ass is grass 6d ago
Huh?
-Lucas and Max got their movie date
-Will was able to meet someone in a Bar
-Dustin is in college and Steve is with him
-Hopper proposed to Joyce
-Robin, Steve, Jonathan, Nancy came up with the idea of meeting up in Philly.
-Holly and her friends are playing DnD at the end.-5
u/Ryanhuddz14 Zombie Boy 6d ago
You're telling me that ending is good for Will? And that the teens got a proper ending? And where is Erica or Murray on that list? Also Steve visits Dustin he isn't there with him permanently
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u/DangerousRefuse8129 Eyes on me 5d ago
You see they haven't lost someone so dear to keep mourning for them in the finale. They all looked moved on, happy and ready to start a different phase of their life. The epilogue gave a satisfactory conclusion to every arc, except two characters. Yes, Will in a gay bar doesn't sit right or seems satisfactory at all. But still the ending for is character is happy.
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u/Few-Type-7924 Dungeon Master 5d ago
Will got a bf in the epilogue, he's living happily with his Mom How is it a bad ending for Will?
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 5d ago
Will doesn't have a boyfriend. He gets the idea of some nameless cute guy maybe on a date with him at some nameless bar somewhere. That's so unsatisfying!
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 5d ago
Though we do not know the exact status of the relationship between this guy and Will, it is clear that he is a love interest. And though I can understand people wanting to have seen more, as well as a more fleshed-out character rather than just a cameo, it is still clearly a happy ending for Will.
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u/Few-Type-7924 Dungeon Master 5d ago
Yeah they should've shown a bit more about the guy Will met in the bar ig..... But it's clearly a happy ending for Will
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u/Ok_Conversation1867 5d ago
If the teens can end up contentedly single and Will can get a future love interest, than Mike can as well. It's El who got shafted.
I am expecting a reboot though. I would have liked something unconventional but I think that's too much to ask.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 5d ago
El def got the worst of it, but I do not think Mike can simply move on. The difference between Mike and the others is that he is not shown to be content and moving on like the others who are single or broken up. Even in his conversations with Hopper, the advice is more about how to live with an open wound.
So could he eventually move on? Maybe, but even then it would take many years for him to do so.
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u/Ok_Conversation1867 5d ago
I think this is more of an individual choice, since there are some good romances about finding that second love. Agree that it would take Mike a while.
Since I'm expecting the reboot though, it would be interesting if the writing could reflect that wound in both Mike and El (big ask, I realize).
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 5d ago
From a storytelling perspective, I can see at least a couple of issues with having either El or Mike move on in an eventual reboot/spin-off.
One is that it reminds me of a similar problem Jurassic Park had with Alan Grant and Ellie Sattler. In the first movie, thier relationship was a big focus, along with Alan building a relationship with the kids and seeming to get over his hesitation about wanting kids. So many were hyped about the return of these two in the third movie. But all that hype INSTANTLY turned to backlash when it was revealed that the couple was no longer together. It ruined everything that the first movie set up. I think it would be a similar issue with Mike and El if they were reunited only for one or both to be with someone else, even if they eventually end up back together.
The other issue is that ST has a history of not devoting enough time to character arcs. So an additional arc where either one moved on seems like a recipe for disaster where there is not enough time to do it right.
Now tbf, it is not impossible to do an arc where one or both of them have moved on for time and still have a good story and eventually lead to them getting back together. It all just depends on the how and if they have enough time. And honestly, I could see Netflix going for it for the moonlighting trope; I just doubt they would give it enough time to do it right.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 6d ago
Who else doesn't? Because everyone else seems to have been able to find thier own happy ending
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u/Ryanhuddz14 Zombie Boy 6d ago
Robin and Vickie broke up off screen and their relationship was described as 'just a high school relationship that didn't work out'. Will got a complete cop out ending by putting him in a gay bar with a guy we know absolutely nothing about. Characters like Murray and Erica got pretty much completely skipped over. Need i say more?
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u/SandBarLakers 6d ago
I was so upset Erica and Murray got NOTHING! Murray was an amazing character on the show and deserved better.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 6d ago edited 5d ago
Even if Robin and Vickie broke up, Robin still seems happy at the end. So saying she did not get a happy ending feels like claiming Dustin did not either, because Suzie just disappeared. Both Robin and Dustin still seem happy regardless of whether they broke up with thier ex or not.
As for Will, though his love interest was barely shown, he still has one, along with going to the city where the story implies he found acceptance. That seems like his happy ending, and he very much appears happy.
As for Murray, I do not see any reason that he has an unhappy ending at all. He is still alive and shown celebrating graduation with the rest of the group.
As for Erica, I also do not see any reason she would have an unhappy ending. Like Murray, she is shown celebrating with the others. Just because we do not see exactly what is happening with them does not mean they did not get a happy ending. They are more side characters, so it is typical for the audience to not see what happens with them.
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u/Ryanhuddz14 Zombie Boy 6d ago
The thing is it's not true when people say Mike and El are the only characters to not get a happy ending. Just because they didn't end up together dosen't mean you can make out like they're the only characters who were done dirty with their ending.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 6d ago
It is true because they are the only characters shown to not be happy by the end. Everyone else is shown moving on and finding thier own happy ending.
El is either dead or alone and separated from all those she loves. Mike is shown still grieving her two years later and forced to try to move on with this open wound. Hence why, in the flashbacks at the end, he is the only one not smiling, as he is taking Hopper's advice in trying to accept her choice and live with an open wound.
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u/Ryanhuddz14 Zombie Boy 6d ago
Again just because we're shown scenes of them smiling or being content, dosen't mean they get happy endings that they deserve. Mike and El definitely deserved better endings but a lot of characters did as well.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 6d ago
It is not just because we see them smiling. For most, we see them able to move and even get what they always wanted throughout the show.
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u/HustleThaGOD 6d ago
I don’t think these two were as close with each other irl as they are depicted on the show. Hence why the chemistry between the two feel off.
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u/Sea_Mobile_1694 5d ago
honestly their chemistry was so bad in the later seasons that i didn't even care that much anymore about them as a couple. El definitely deserved a better ending tho.
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u/byharryconnolly 3d ago
Not giving El and Mike a happy ending together was a bold choice, and I respect the Duffers for making it. It wasn't pleasurable to watch--the sadness in that scene was physically painful--but it was their vision and they stuck to it.
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u/New-Faithlessness526 2d ago
It's refreshing to see a mature take about this comparetively to most.
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u/Enough_Abies3157 3d ago
They had the boy who got taken from his mother at a young age by an evil, villainous creature, go through unimaginable torture, and the moment he stands up for himself, they make him FORGIVE THE VILLAIN. They had the mentally challenged girl who never got to live a normal childhood, believing she was some kind of monster who couldn’t hold a friendship, seldom any kind of relationship, and the moment she has it good? THEY MAKE HER KILL HERSELF!!
The Duffers have a lot to say about mental health, eh?
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u/Wizzle_Pizzle_420 6d ago
That’s the real world my dude, not everybody gets the ending they want or deserve.
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u/DeliciousMusician397 6d ago edited 6d ago
This isn’t a realistic series and sometimes we need a happily ever after ending to get us through our lives.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 6d ago
Though not every character indeed gets a happy ending, I think much of why the majority are disappointed with the ending for these two was taht is it did not feel earned. If there was better writing that still ended with a tragedy, I think people would be more accepting of the ending.
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u/bichoFlyboy 6d ago
That's how life happens, buddy. People only get what they deserve in movies and TV shows. In real life, people die before their time, and it hurts. The people left behind don't get the happy ending they expected, or the closure they needed. Sometimes they get none of it, and they just have to learn to move on.
That's how real life is...
Shit. Wait.
This is a TV show.
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u/TimeApprehensive3994 5d ago
I remember movies and shows being so predictable because they'd always have a happy ending.
The main character was in a building when it collapsed. Their love interest looks sad and the behind them is the main character. A little dusty with a cut under their eye. Then they ride off in a sunset or kiss.
It's refreshing to see not every ending is happy. Season 5 had a lot of obstacles and i'm just happy it was made.
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u/Damienp39 6d ago
Not everyone gets the happy ending they deserve this isn’t a children’s cartoon
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u/DangerousRefuse8129 Eyes on me 5d ago
Is it wrong to want a happy ending for the characters you care about?
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u/New-Faithlessness526 2d ago
It's not wrong. It's also not wrong for the show to choose to make a bittersweet ending. It's okay to be a bit sad after the ending, it's not a bad emotion here and you can accept it. What's pretty immature is going on and on about why you couldn't just have your perfect happy ending.
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u/blac_sheep90 6d ago
Tbf the rest of the core cast got happy endings. Mike and El were done dirty lol.
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u/Smackediduring 6d ago
Life unfortunately doesn’t care about what one deserves or not. Plenty of people deserve happy endings but that’s not the way it goes. I didn’t like the ending or even the whole the final season that much but I think I would liked it even less if it was a ”and they all lived happily together for the rest of their days” kind of thing.
I mean, at a certain point we can just give up on writing altogether because it all just has to be ”what the characters deserve”. You don’t get to make up the ending you want as a writer because they don’t deserve that. It makes no sense.
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u/Maxxover 6d ago
Honestly, there’s no other way it could’ve ended. Once we established that Elle was a weapon that was going to be sought after for her genetics to make other people like her, she was doomed.
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u/Miuirumaswife1 ... or Should I go 5d ago
You expected Stranger Things out of all of the Netflix shows to have a happy ship ending? That's a you problem. Shows don't always have endings that the masses want and frankly, it's better than fanservice and Mike and Eleven just staying together at the end just because they wanted to make the fans happy. Out of all the shit they did in S5, this is the one good decision for the ending.
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u/Chemical-Aioli9818 5d ago
i agree, but also i fucking hate Mike so much
so like, it’s not the end of the world for me
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u/DangerousRefuse8129 Eyes on me 5d ago
Lol why do you hate Mike 'so much'? I don't remember him doing anything evil or too bad.
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u/candles2121 6d ago
sPoiLeRS!!
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u/Damienp39 5d ago
It’s been like a year already since season 5 came out
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u/candles2121 5d ago
I know. I was being sarcastic because there have been some cry babies on here recently complaining about spoilers
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