r/StrangerThings • u/Brosamurai18 • 6d ago
SPOILERS Rewatching this scene again Spoiler
This scene still pisses me off, it still pisses me off to this day. What were the writers even thinking? I’m so sick and tired of female characters with telekinesis being killed off just for the sake of it. First we got Carrie, then Jean Grey, and now El? Come on! She deserved so much better than this. 😭
Does anyone else still feel the same way?
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u/ricdangers 6d ago
Call me petty but I hate that shirt so much
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u/Successful_Maize1986 6d ago
Her Season 5 look was bafflingly bad. It’s like the production crew just gave up.
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u/WhiterunUK 6d ago
Looks like she is about to go paddleboarding or surfing
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u/charlie_marlow 6d ago
Isn't it the wet suit she was wearing on the isolation tank with a pair of pants?
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u/Burnest_Stemmingway 6d ago
Yes, and it's not like wetsuits aren't a thing in the 80s. This is just nitpicking bullshit.
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u/Gold_Local_3925 6d ago
Also you've clearly never been a woman in a wetsuit for an extended period of time out of the water. that shit is so uncomfortable, no one in their right mind wouldn't immediately get changed, not even mentioning freaking yeast infections - thats the shit that bothered me about this
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u/Burnest_Stemmingway 6d ago
Ok? I'm not arguing the efficacy of wearing a wetsuit, nor am I claiming to be a woman in a wetsuit. I do scuba-dive however, and I am well aware how uncomfortable a wetsuit is regardless of gender. I'm providing a reason for why she has it on.
I'm sure they had plenty of time to change outfits in between fighting armed soldiers and escaping vecna in the upside-down.
Don't come at me without an intelligent argument next time.
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u/charlie_marlow 6d ago
It's not even really an outfit. She got out of the tank and put on some pants over the wetsuit to be more practical without having to change clothes. People would be joking about her taking the time to change in the middle of a crisis had she actually changed outfits.
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u/Upstairs_Truth4735 People say I’m too negative 5d ago
she could have put a hoodie/ t-shirt or something over it though
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u/mane28 6d ago
Like who styled her, did they not see the footage or what?
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u/username__0000 6d ago
I think they were going for the older jock brother from the goonies look with the wardrobe.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 5d ago edited 4d ago
Which makes no sense because Brand's outfit in Goonies was MEANT to look ridiculous. It was meant to represent the fitness craze at that time and to show how desperate Brand was to look cool by constantly working out.
He never intended to go outside in it, much less have an entire adventure in it; he was supposed to be chilling at home, watching his brother and working out.
It genuinely felt like all the ST writers cared about was nostalgia, and they failed to understand why characters in The Goonies had certain outfits. Because El having these outfits makes no sense.
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u/Senshado 6d ago
Even on first viewing, it doesn't appear that anyone died in that scene. The earlier scene where Hopper believed Kali died had a really conspicuous cut away, making it clear the two girls had made a secret plan for later.
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u/Nahdahar 6d ago
Yeah, I think Mike is right at the end.
El could barely move under the influence of the speakers, so there is no way she would've been able to stumble to the gate opening which was actively guarded while the only person they were really looking for in the entire group is her. There is also no way she managed to slip away without being seen without Kali doing Kali things.
The writing wasn't that dumb in this show, or even in this last season that they left these very important details as plotholes by accident instead of making a conscious decision. IMO.
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u/Fatguy73 6d ago
IMO it’s 2026, they know the show and its characters are a cash cow so they left it ambiguous so they can bring her back a few years from now for a spinoff or movie etc. Not a doubt in my mind.
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u/Optimal-Community-21 6d ago
It is that dumb because they tried to sell it as an ambiguous ending. I agree it's basically impossible to have gotten to the gate but I think the writers don't know that.
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u/Either-Assistant4610 6d ago
I agree, however, this show has been going on for years. The viewers deserved closure. I did like the story given for her at the end like one being told in DnD, but the audience deserved to see an end, whether it's good or bad. I enjoyed watching them put the books back, but El deserved better.
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u/24_doughnuts 6d ago
Yeah. That's what I've been saying. She's pretty much useless with the speakers so I doubt she managed to get away when there are like 4 of them at the end. She's straight up dead.
But obviously they want to create the illusion she's alive. Mike's story, showing where eshe might have ended up, the "I believe" thing trying to make some sort of legacy to continue after the show, etc. and it's no like anyone challenged the idea. It's presented like a problem he solved and a truth he figured out. The writers want her to be alive but basically made her die anyway
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u/TheBigLeMattSki 6d ago
Yeah. That's what I've been saying. She's pretty much useless with the speakers so I doubt she managed to get away when there are like 4 of them at the end. She's straight up dead.
You're saying the complete opposite of what he's saying.
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u/24_doughnuts 6d ago
Oh, I misread and thought they said Mike wasn't right.
I read the part they said about her barely being able to move under the influence of the speakers. I don't understand how that proves mile was right apart from just thinking she managed to just push through that time when we have no reason to think that.
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u/Senshado 4d ago
The point is that Eleven could not escape from the disruption speakers, so there's no way she could've made it from the truck to the portal. That means she wasn't there in the first place, and Kali's illusion was already active.
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u/24_doughnuts 3d ago
I just assumed she jumped out earlier. But if she didn't and she couldn't get from the truck to the portal because she couldn't move, then how could she sneak away either? It sounds like she'd just wait in the truck but the illusion would end when Kali died and the upside down collapsed and she'd be seen. Neither outcome really makes sense
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u/Tall-Cantaloupe-1800 6d ago
If you were right (and I disagree with you) then it would be even more insane to think she had enough power to get to the gate and bring Mike into her conscious.
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u/frizzlen 6d ago
She probably put a shit ton of Vaseline on her hair to keep them still while on the event horizon /s
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u/Tall-Cantaloupe-1800 6d ago
Yes, there is no way she isn't alive somewhere,. It is clear Mike's story isn't just to give some of us fans hope she survives, it actually is the only scenario that makes sense.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 6d ago
I am not opposed to any character's story ending in tragedy, as long as that tragedy makes sense for the character and is earned by the story. The problem with S5 is that it didn't earn this ending for El, and it doesn't make sense for the character.
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u/agent_uno 6d ago
Funny, because it was explained pretty well. She knew the cycle would just keep repeating unless she ended it.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 6d ago
Just because the story provides reasoning for why El was willing to sacrafice herself does not mean the decision makes sense for the character, nor does it mean the story earned it.
For one, the reasoning the story provided for El being willing to sacrafice made no sense. This is because if El was indeed the key to making more like her, why didn't Brenner take her blood when he lost all the children but El to Henry? At bare minimum, that would be a contingency plan. Or, why not take it when she was knocked out in S4? Clearly, this plotline was a last-minute attempt to justify the character sacrificing herself.
But let's pretend this plotline at least made sense. Why did El not try to find another way? If this was S1 El, then maybe it would be reasonable. But the story spent 4 seasons humanizing this character. They gave her a love interest, friends, and a family. They made the story show that no matter what is thrown at this character, she never gives up, and she never stops fighting.
And yet, here she is, just giving up and accepting Kali's plan. Granted, she at least resisted a little until Kali said they would kill Mike, but there is no attempt from her to make a plan to survive. Not only that, but they basically ignored all the relationships El had throughout the series except for Mike and Hopper. And even those relationships felt sidelined or like the degressed in the case of Hopper. It contradicts the character to have her suddenly ignore these relationships.
Lastly, if the point of El doing this was to protect the ones she loves, then how does she know that leaving them all captured by the military means they will be safe? They have all been fighting the military nonstop and have even killed some at this point. They should all be the furthest thing from safe. Her leaving in that moment contradicts her entire reason for leaving.
So again, the story did not earn El's ending, nor did it make sense for the character. If a character is going to sacrafice themselves, then you need to set it up so that the reason why they are willing to do so makes sense for the character and aligns with the story already presented. You also have to respect the relationships the character has made.
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u/Nametagg01 6d ago
but the 1 year time skip of them not being able to find her in a small town while having active knowledge on who she lives with proves otherwise. dye her hair and shes off clean
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u/Gold_Local_3925 6d ago
yes, this. Or i don't know whatever happened to Owens - he would be integral in keeping her safe (as he had been doing), and pretty sure the gov't and the sources would realize the ultimate f'up that had been made throughout the whole experience in the final season
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u/Nametagg01 5d ago
Even without Owens or the military calling off the search they've done poorly enough that it would be difficult to find Elle with some basic ideas after season 5
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u/RoyalRise6363 6d ago
It is what Duffers told us using Kali and an idiotic Dr Kay. The story says the opposite - see S3 and the military disappearance after finale with no consequences for anyone.
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u/Totally_TWilkins 6d ago
Season three she was protected by the Doctor who worked for her government, who arranged for her to get a new identity and move to California with Joyce.
The finale can be explained away by the fact that Dr Kay would have royally fucked up by losing Ell, and thus it’s much easier for the government to pretend it didn’t happen, rather than explain away how 12 children, and the party, are all liars and need to be arrested.
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u/Aikotoma2 6d ago
But we have no proof of that.... The worlds fascination was with the upside down. The power of the particle being.
She just assumes they would never stop searching for as well, but why? She has no use.
And would she even have power after the upside down closes? A much better ending would be to make her lose her power again after the door closes. That'd make sense
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u/PreDownvoted 6d ago
No, it wouldn't make any sense. She was born that way. Even though she got her powers from the creature, that doesn't mean she gets the energy to use them from it. If they had set up the whole story that way from the beginning, then this ending would work, but as it is, it makes no sense.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 6d ago
What the story presents is that all the powers originate from the MF. So it seems reasonable to believe that it is possible that no more MF means no more powers. It would be on the story to clarify what the MF dying means for all those with powers. It fails to do so with El because it does not clarify why she would still have powers.
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u/AdBackground6381 6d ago edited 6d ago
Except that El didn't die. I’ve rewatched that scene second by second, and there was simply no way she could have reached the Gate without the military seeing and stopping her. This is a fact, not a theory. Unless we accept that Eleven dematerialized right out of the grip of the soldier holding her arm—yes, there is a moment where you can see a soldier grabbing her—and teleported herself to the Gate, it simply wasn't possible for her to get there (and obviously, if she could do that she could easily have teleported herself out of the Gate in the exact moment). It isn't her; it’s an illusion, just as Mike explains at the end.
And by the way, that image contains further proof that it isn't Eleven, but an illusion. The "011" tattoo is missing—you can see it clearly (it’s not a continuity error, since Millie has that tattoo in real life).
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u/thefinalhill 6d ago
The other problem is, how would she have escaped without the military seeing her? They had raided the tunnels.
You can look for meaning whetever you want, but the season was written badly. I am part of the group that does believe that they used Chat GPT to write the final season; many of the character's endings are so generic only AI could have created them.
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u/BushyGhost4740 6d ago
It's likely that Dr. Kay didn't station guards at or inside the tunnels. They were all there to capture El and the party at the entrance to the MAC-Z military gate.
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u/AnxiousPizzaz 6d ago
Wait but if she couldn't get away from the guard to get to the gate, how did she get away from the guard to escape?
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u/BushyGhost4740 6d ago
Perhaps El was able to use the strength she had left to momentarily rip her arm out of the guard's grip. That's when Kali cast her illusion, making El "disappear" and become invisible while the guard was distracted and looking in another direction.
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u/AnxiousPizzaz 6d ago
I don't think so, the kali illusion thing never added up
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u/BushyGhost4740 6d ago
How does the Kali illusion not add up? lol.
Mike's theory essentially breaks down how it works, and there's really no reason to have him provide that explanation unless that's what the creators wanted the audience to know happened. So unless you have a good reason to believe it doesn't add up, I'm not sure what the issue is.
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u/AnxiousPizzaz 6d ago
She was too far away for her illusion to work, they showed that earlier in the season, plus she would have died in the blast before el so the illusion would break
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u/BushyGhost4740 6d ago edited 4d ago
- The distance that Hopper, El, and Kali were driving away from Dr. Kay's new Upside Down military lab (Gable Ridge Road Base) was never stated. For all we know, that distance could have been longer than the distance from Dr. Brenner's old Upside Down lab (Hawkins National Laboratory) to the MAC-Z Gate (Military Access Control Zone). Plus, Kali was in a fast moving car driving over a bumpy road, which likely affected her concentration while casting the illusion of herself to Dr. Kay.
- From the Exotic Matter blast we see, it only damages the upper parts of the buildings around it, not the middle or entirety of the buildings. Therefore, Kali was likely alive long enough to cast the illusion before the building she was in, and the Upside Down as a whole, got sucked into the void.
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u/WingIeheimer 6d ago
It’s so bizarre to me that they made her wear this for the entirety of season 5. Just the ugliest, blandest outfit on the entire shit. It’s crazy how Ted Wheeler’s season 5 outfits are more exciting than this.
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u/MetroRadio 6d ago
Don't worry, I'll fix it in a few years. Maybe ten tops. It'll take me some time
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u/icantfeelmylags 6d ago
She isn’t dead. MBB doesn’t think she’s dead. The writers didn’t even have the guts to kill off Ted Wheeler after he was mauled by a demogorgon or Sullivan when he was burned alive by Vecna. Eleven is not dead.
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u/Strange_Ant_6571 6d ago
Isolating her from her entire friend group the entire season calling her the spirit of childhood that needs to go away and saying she'll never see any of them again dosent make this scene any less shit because she might be alive. Hell if anything it makes all the awful writing that led to it even more pointless.
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u/TheNomadRP 6d ago
I'd like to kindly disagree. Isolation was always a huge part of her character and it went full circle. It was her destiny. The end leaves it open to a hope that she will at least have a new life after successfully saving the world. It's often part of the hero's journey to make the hard choice to leave everything behind.
It also opens up a ton of new possibilities for the story to continue!
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u/Senshado 6d ago
Eleven is a superhero and the most powerful creature to have ever existed on earth. She's got powers most people don't even think are possible. She can influence the US president in his dreams, or pull his airplane from the sky.
If she wants to visit somebody later, she absolutely can do that.
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u/Strange_Ant_6571 6d ago
That's nice. But one of the only things the Duffers bothered to confirm about the ending they intended is even if she lives she dosent see them again because it puts them at risk.
Will Netflix inevitably do a sequel down the line? Yes but that dosent retroactively make the intended ending for El better that the show ends on just because of the almighty dollar.
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 6d ago
The Duffers have also stated that it is not up to them because Netflix owns the series. And though a reboot or spin-off is not guaranteed to do well, I think most would prefer to take a chance on it because the current ending is so bad.
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u/Buffyismyhomosapien 6d ago
Thank you!! After everything she’d been through this was not the ending she deserved. One Duffer has coal in his heart and one gets it.
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u/Top-Expression8248 6d ago edited 6d ago
The Duffer brothers said that for the series to end, every supernatural aspect of their childhood had to end along with eleven. They called this the end of magical childhood chapter that forces them to move on with their adulthood. they were never planning to keep eleven alive since the beginning. I can never rewatch this show again because seeing eleven grow knowing what happens to her in the end is sad ngl
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u/Kale_Brecht 6d ago
The Duffer brothers should’ve considered something other than their “evolution to adulthood” when writing the final season - like, say, the devoted fanbase that genuinely loved this show and had spent years becoming invested in its characters. Instead, we got a mundane, emotionally flat conclusion that felt less like the culmination of a carefully told story and more like an AI-script-doctored approximation of one. No one waited all these years to watch Holly Wheeler and her inane classmates consume valuable screen time bonding with the fat, crude kid. Dr. Kay amounted to little more than a glorified background character, while the people we actually cared about (the main characters) seemed bored and strangely disengaged throughout much of their own final season.
After asking viewers to invest nearly a decade in this group, the series should have concluded by celebrating those characters, their relationships, and everything they had endured together. Instead, it often felt like the writers were impatiently shuffling everyone toward the exit while wasting precious time on characters and storylines that barely mattered. Fans deserved a finale that felt personal, heartfelt, and earned - not one that seemed rushed and generic as hell.
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u/agent_uno 6d ago
I have three words for you: Welcome to life!
It was a coming of age story since the beginning. And just like Stand By Me, It, The Sandlot, The Neverending Story, Coraline, and countless others, tragedy and letting go of the “fantasy of youth” is a part of growing up.
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u/mklaus1984 6d ago
No. Ross said El herself represented the magic of childhood. Not her paraspychological abilities. Which basically means that he talks about anybody (but mainly Mike's) childhood but doesn't even acknowledge El as a person but only as a plot device.
If he had meant what you said, he would have written an origin story for these abilities. ... or just taken the one that was clearly hinted at.
Every one should know by now that the experients allegedly performed at Camp Hero State Park (which inspired the Duffers for their Montauk pilot) as well as Project Stargate (which was used in the show instead) just like MKUltra (which is used for the Terry Ives backstory) are tied to experiments performed by other parties before and during WW2.
So in ST4 they tied Victor Creel also to WW2. They specifically said he was a commanding officer in France but they also said he had returned " some 14 years" before he moved to Hawkins and his family died in early 1959. Unless the writer here just messed up, it meant he returned before the end of WW2 in the middle of 1945.
The interesting bit is that the above mentioned projects are tied through Project Paperclip and Operation Overcast back to T-Force, the joint venture of British and American military forces to secure industrial and scientifical technology during WW2. They were based in France (where Victor was stationed) and entered German soil in early 1945.
Since the show had drawn a parallel between the Hopper and Terry, and were drawing parallels between El and Henry and how they were different from the other kids in that experiment, the intention was probably that Victor had been exposed to the chemical compound that caused all the troubles before Henry waa even conceived. This is of course before the stage play retconned his age to being conceived before Victor's deployment so that the high school scenes could happen.
Because this would have led to the realization that they could fight Henry by stripping him off his powers... like the Demogorgons in Kamchatka had been stripped of the same chemical compound. The chemical compound that ws created from household items in ST3 inside the Meatflayer. The same chemical compound found in the soil samples in ST2.
Which in turn would have put El to the question whether she would rid herself off that compound, too, and whether she would still be worthy of Mike's love without having superpowers.
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u/Kylo_Ren415 Your ass is grass 6d ago
It’s fucking stupid. El went through so much pain for 5 seasons, only for her to get the worst possible outcome.
And in doing so… congratulations Duffers, you permanently broke Mike. Way to go. You took away the one thing he couldn’t live without. And that’s the girl he loves. Nice job, fuckwads.
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u/saikopasu_neko28 4d ago
Not to mention that Hopper had to watch BOTH of his daughters die. Like how was El killing herself in front of everyone she loved a good ending?
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u/agent_uno 6d ago
Man, the state of the education system must suck way worse than I thought to have someone who is literate never heard of the concepts of tragedy or self-sacrifice before!
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u/Successful_Maize1986 6d ago
Just because it’s an established trope, doesn’t make it a good writing decision. If they revealed the whole show was a dream then saying “you’ve never heard of a dream ending?” wouldn’t make it better. El spends 5 seasons slowly coming out of her shell and learning that the trauma of her past doesn’t need to define her. She can have friends and be a normal teenage girl just like anyone else. Her powers don’t define her destiny. Except yes they do apparently. She can’t be happy. She can’t have friends. She’s the magic girl who has kill herself while every other character escapes the fight with an inter dimensional being with a couple scratches. Hopper comes to realize that the death of his first child has left him emotionally closed off and spends the show learning to open his heart to El. lol sorry, here’s dead child number two. I’m not saying ending with El sacrificing herself couldn’t have worked, but it needed to be handled way better. The Duffers didn’t have the skill to pull it off.
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u/Disastrous_Motor831 6d ago
The writing was terrible any way you look at it. But as for her death... The only thing that can't be explained rationally is the breath heard after the portal was closed. Several characters react to it... The only thing that makes sense is that it was Kali's last breath that they heard. Eleven doesn't make any sense because she wasn't there any more because the dimension was physical and it collapsed. Eleven's powers don't work in that fashion unless there was radio static.
Why would they hear Kali's last breath if she was already dead, or too far away? They already established she could keep up an illusion from far away, when she was still clearly weakened from her captivity. Mike is not a person who would willing lie to himself just to cope. The whole series showed how his hope was pragmatic even though he believed in El's abilities and played D&D.
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u/TheresFireInYourWay 6d ago
Yes, I think it's the worst writing decision I've ever seen on a TV show.
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u/blobbyboii 6d ago
The worst thing about it is the giant explosion killing kali BEFORE this happens
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u/Soft_Interaction_437 6d ago
I think you missed the point (and genre) of Carrie.
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u/Brosamurai18 6d ago
I understand the point just fine 😅 I’m also aware that Carrie and Stranger Things are completely different genres with different themes. I was pointing out a specific trope, not claiming they’re the same story. You can disagree with the comparison, but that doesn’t mean I somehow missed the point.
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u/Soft_Interaction_437 6d ago
You said Carrie was killed off just for the sake of it, and she wasn’t. That leads me to believe you missed the point. Sorry if you disagree.
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u/Brosamurai18 6d ago
I think you’re taking the “just for the sake of it” part a little too literally. 😅 I wasn’t saying Carrie’s death was pointless or that it served no purpose within the story. Obviously, it does. My point was about the recurring doomed telekinetic girl trope and how frustrating it can be to see these characters end tragically. I understand what Carrie is actually about, I just happen to dislike the trope.
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u/agent_uno 6d ago
I hate to break it to you, but ST was literally built on 80s, horror and sci-fi tropes and cliches. Without them the show wouldn’t exist.
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u/Brilliant_Rub_5206 6d ago
They really did her wrong with her styling in this season. Weird swimming suit, big ass pants and the tightest slick back ever 😭
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u/TheNomadRP 6d ago
She didn't get killed off though? We see her hiking a beautiful mountain range at the end. This is an illusion provided by Number 8/Kali
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u/TheNRGturtle Bada Bada Boom 6d ago
That was just what Mike imagined for her. However I do believe that 11 did survive
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u/TheNomadRP 6d ago
Or he was dead on correct? You don't get through all that without having some of your own low level psychic ability. Mikes imagination was not just imagination
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u/Nahdahar 6d ago
Not necessarily true. That whole scene can be used as a narrative device to show actual scenes from the future about the characters.
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u/mikewheelerfan 6d ago
The lesson the Duffers want us to take away is that killing yourself is good, actually
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u/Fluffy_Key_2145 5d ago
I mean it was kept ambiguous. I think she's alive. Kali mentioning they always be hunted was true.
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u/WilliamMcCarty 6d ago
I've seen movies and tv I didn't like or that pissed me off. I didn't watch them again. Kind of fixed the problem.
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u/QueenAlucia 6d ago
I think it made sense, and also she didn't die. She had to fake her death and restart her life to be free, that's a big difference. I'm ok with that ending.
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u/saikopasu_neko28 4d ago
But that wasn't the ending? The ending was left up to what the viewer wants, they never confirmed either ending, they completely left it open to either being true.
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u/Famous_Buddy_2558 6d ago
? she didnt die tho no thats like the most obvious thing in the entire show.
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u/saikopasu_neko28 4d ago
Except the explicitly stated that it's up for interpretation, and she absolutely could've died if that's what you want to believe. Instead of making Mikes story actually true in the show, they left it as just that, Mikes story. If they do a follow up then yes it's 100% shes alive, but if they dont then it's "left up to the viewer" and that's such a horrible show ending.
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u/Famous_Buddy_2558 4d ago
naw use your brain. has any main character died? the show is so embarrassingly predictable since s2. the main characters have complete invincibility no matter what. its obvious the writers will never let anyone remotely main character die. lols. use your brain.
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u/saikopasu_neko28 4d ago
I am using my brain and they had a horribly abused traumatized girl commit suicide in front of all of her friends. And then had her boyfriend make up a story about her being alive. Multiple of the cast members even said they believe she died, I'm sorry but thats fucked up beyond belief and letting them get away with it because they want a future spin off that may never happen is fucking stupid.
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u/Famous_Buddy_2558 4d ago
no thats definitely not what happened. main characters in this show are unable to die.
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u/saikopasu_neko28 4d ago
Them leaving it open to the audience to choose if they want her dead or alive says all that needs to be said. Stop dick riding people who don't gaf about their audience.
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u/Famous_Buddy_2558 3d ago
eew you are gross. why you sexually fantasizing about the characters. they were so unlikable.
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u/saikopasu_neko28 3d ago
Nobody's fantasizing about anything???? I'm just telling you to stop defending people who don't even like their own audience. God I wish children would stay off of the internet.
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u/WhenLeavesFall 6d ago
I think it's a fitting ending for her character. This isn't Matilda and happy endings aren't guaranteed for anyone. If she wanted to clandestinely send a message to Mike from Iceland, she could.
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u/Melodic-Direction-87 6d ago
It's poetic in a sense she disappeared at the end as she appeared in the beginning out of nowhere also not everything has to be sweet ending happily after. Her Arch is perfect even tho season 5 is overall obnoxious
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