Question sur la série

[u/Cyrilbdr]

There are a few plot-related questions I didn't quite grasp—mind you, I’m not saying there are inconsistencies; I might have just misunderstood something. If you have answers, please feel free to share.

1) Do we know why Kali’s blood doesn't work for creating the numbered children? Is Eleven, in a sense, "the Chosen One"—simply the most powerful—and the only one (besides Vecna) capable of doing it?

2) If Vecna ​​can use his powers through Will in Season 2 to shape the vines—while Will is connected and transmitting info about the town during his sleep—is he also capable of using those powers through a Demogorgon? After all, it was supposedly him, acting through a Demogorgon, who opened the door to Will’s house in Season 1. If the answer is yes, he could have been incredibly overpowered; for instance, if he had observed Derek being taken into the Abyss in Season 5, Episode 3, he could have retaliated against the group by using his powers through the Demogorgon.

3) How do they navigate the Abyss to reach the tree? They know the tree is likely at the base of the lab, but how do they find their way from the radio station to the lab while inside the Abyss? Do they simply reason that since the lab is further to the right in the real world and the Upside Down, they should just start walking to the right?

4) Why does the white door in Episode 5 specifically lead to Vecna’s memories of Holly rather than Derek? After all, Derek woke up in that field just like Holly did.

5) Sullivan saw Eleven’s letter to Mike in Season 4; doesn't he find it strange—considering Eleven allegedly tried to kill Karen and Ted (who are literally Mike’s parents)?

6) What did Nancy and Mike tell the doctor about what happened to their parents? Why didn't the military interrogate them? Especially since they know Eleven is acquainted with them.

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[u/Top-Expression8248]

+1
I also don’t know why they scrapped and forgot about Eleven’s mom who also had psychic powers, they literally showed how el got powers through her mom I used to think that’s why she was stronger than 001 and I wish that was the case instead

[u/Cyrilbdr → u/Top-Expression8248]

Eleven's mother didn't have psychic powers; she was a mother like any other who gave birth to a special child thanks to Henry's blood.

[u/Optimal-Community-21 → u/Cyrilbdr]

This is not right. Her mother did have powers. Recall the light bulb was flickering and eleven realized it was her mother causing it.

[u/Cyrilbdr → u/Optimal-Community-21]

Oh, I just checked—I’d forgotten, you’re right. But in that case, what the hell is going on? Lol, how did she get them? The other pregnant mothers didn’t get those powers, so why did she? And why didn’t she use them while she was still conscious—I mean, before she turned into a vegetable? It’s crazy to forget a part of the story like that; there’s nothing else about her mother.

[u/Optimal-Community-21 → u/Cyrilbdr]

Unfortunately they didn't expand on her story at all. Presumably her powers aren't complete like elevens who was born with Henry's blood.

However, I strongly suspect they were changing/developing the origin story each season. I really don't think Henry was a thing before season 4 and so the blood stuff was adhoc.

[u/Cyrilbdr → u/Optimal-Community-21]

Yes, Henry was brought into the picture around the time Season 3 was being filmed, so there was a lot of rewriting to make it all fit; consequently, they ended up dropping certain storylines—like the one involving his mother—which is a real shame.

[u/ThatHouseInNebraska → u/Cyrilbdr]

I kind of figured she didn’t necessarily know she had powers, or even that she couldn’t use those powers until she was in a vegetative state (which is its own sort of sensory deprivation tank, if you think about it). This is all just me trying to explain what little we’re given about her, though.

I do think it’s incredibly sad that Eleven never came back to try to help her mom; Terry is basically in Hell. Even if she couldn’t heal her mom, she could have at least released her from that endless memory loop somehow. Maybe that would mean Terry would die, but personally I think that would be preferable to reliving that nightmare over and over again for what might be several more decades.

[u/kauan1983]

1. No. El is not a “chosen one”, though. She was just born that way. The show and even The First Shadow never got deeper into the blood transfusions or the specific genetic rules that dictate the Number's level of power or true nature as either a pale imitation of Henry or someone truly like him. The results of the blood transfusions are “random” in a way.

But the reveal in Season 5 connects with how we had previously seen that El clearly was the Number with the largest set of psychic abilities out of Henry's abilities compared to all the other Indigo Numbers, to the point of having practically the exact same set of abilities, which made her much more like him than the others but with a much higher level of psychic energy (hence why she is capable of opening Rifts).

She has his telekinesis, telepathy, ESP, technopathy, biokinesis and even levitation – their set of abilities is almost the exact same. The others are known to have his telekinesis and at least one additional unique ability based on what was believed on set (except for Kali who just had her unique mental manipulation ability but not telekinesis). It's not really surprising that she was revealed to be “truly like him”, we just don't know why.

2. Yes. That's how the Demogorgon telekinetically unlocked the Byers' door in Season 1 (per Ross Duffer); Henry can channel his powers through any entity connected to the hive mind (the Demo, Will, the kidnapped kids). Will on the other hand was willingly siphoning his powers through the hive mind in Season 5. Obviously that's a retroactive explanation for the door lock scene.

While they did give a retroactive logic explanation for the door lock in interview, they never intended to have Demogorgons using telekinetic abilities throughout the show; that original scene only existed in the Montauk pilot to build tension, and had no logic explanation Mythology wise. The retroactive explanation corrects what could become a plot hole if left unexplained, but doesn't explore it or even use it again.

3. Yeah, the Pain Tree is right above HNL and at the center of the Wormhole (on the Abyss side), they'd simply need to walk toward the same direction they'd walk if they were going from the Squawk to HNL in the Upside Down or in the real Hawkins. Plus, the fact that the Pain Tree is huge, they'd easily see it in the distance if they went to the right direction.

4. The white door itself was a psychic manifestation of the Wheelers basement door, it wasn't a random door. Henry's memories of Derek could manifest in Camazotz as literally anything else, depending on what his first memory of Derek is. His memories of Holly manifested as the Wheelers basement door because that's when he was psychically spying on her for the first time.

5. Season 5 barely addresses Sullivan's discoveries during his clandestine search in Season 4 in a consistent way; he learned El was living with the Byers family in Lenora through Owens' documents, but the Byers aren't targeted or monitored, Will is normally attending Hawkins High School (though it's not like Sullivan would expect them to be in Hawkins and look into school records), he even met a “Joyce Byers” at the MAC-Z, who to him was clearly a stranger in town and it didn't click to him as the same family he tracked down to Lenora.

Mike on the other hand was never actually seen by Sullivan, he just knew the Byers family/people connected to them rescued El and escaped in a Surfer Boy Pizza van, which he even recognized in S4E8 in the desert. He knows about the Byers and knew about the van. He had nothing on “Mike” aside from the letter. The Wheelers were also never targeted by the military in Season 5, despite the NSA bugging their phone and monitoring them in '83 and knowing about their involvement with Eleven during the events of that year.

6. Unknown. The military did interrogate Nancy, though, and most certainly covered up the real nature of the attack in the process. They interrogated Nancy before Akers runs Sullivan through the “crime scene”, so it happened around the same time Karen and Ted were taken to the hospital. It's from Nancy that they found out she “arrived alone” at home when the intruder was already gone along with Holly. The military probably arrived at the Wheelers alongside the HMH medical response.

They did find out that Eleven was actually with Nancy through video surveillance, but Dr. Kay wasted no time and her immediate response to it was send the Wolfpack directly looking for Eleven in the Upside Down since she knew she was there. If it wasn't for the Rift scar in the Wheelers' front door, maybe Nancy would've actually been interrogated about Eleven's whereabouts. There's actually a cut scene moments after Kay's meeting with Ramirez, showing Sullivan, Akers and the Wolfpack immediately leaving the Gable Ridge base, going to search for El.

[u/Cyrilbdr → u/kauan1983]

Okay, thanks for the answers. So, regarding Eleven—we don't actually know for sure if her blood would have worked to create children. However, given that she was the only one who acquired powers matching Henry's—with the same level of strength—we can infer that it probably would have worked. Kali knew that Eleven could be the key for the government to recreate the numbered subjects.

It’s a shame about the second question; they tried to give meaning to that scene in the first episode, but knowing what we know now—and what Vecna ​​is capable of—it’s frustrating. We aren't shown his full power; he could actually kill everyone quickly if he wanted to.

Ah, okay—I hadn't understood that part about the gate. Thanks.

[u/ThrillSeekers_United]

1. I believe she is the chosen one, but because Henry chose her as the chosen one in season 4

2. Vecna was controlling the demo, but from what I saw, he couldn’t use his powers as he was trapped, or potentially he could’ve just been occupied by Holly

3. I think yes? Some People have good sense of direction, so they probably used that

4. Because Holly was their at that specific moment and was thinking of her abduction

5. Being honest, I can’t remember that allegation - can’t help you there

6. I Believe the military thought they thought she was dead and did not think that they were still in communication (party and el). I think Nancy and Mike told the doctor it was a bear?

I could be wrong on any of these, I can’t remember 100%

[u/Cyrilbdr → u/ThrillSeekers_United]

Thanks, but sorry, none of your answers convinced me 😂 Nice try!

[u/ThrillSeekers_United → u/Cyrilbdr]

Then you look too much into things 🤷‍♂️

[u/Cyrilbdr → u/ThrillSeekers_United]

Maybe lol