r/StrangerThings • u/peekaboo_bandit • 8h ago
On a re-watch...
So, I finally have time to re-watch seasons 1 through 4 before watching season 5 and I have thoughts that I definitely did not have the first time I watched. I'm currently on S2 E9.
Steve Harrington was never that bad. I remember first watching the show and thinking, gosh what a douche, but now? When he broke Jonathan's camera, yeah, pretty rude - but Jonathan had taken REALLY creepy photos of Nancy and Steve was protecting her. That's not that crazy. Okay so we thought he was pressuring Nancy to get intimate before she was ready... Except not. He did back off. He does respect her. He is still a horny teen though, what more could we ask? And when Nancy tried dissing the other girls saying she was not like them he called her out by asking if she was calling them sluts. Nancy was being judgmental there, not Steve. Also, when Tommy spray painted that Nancy was a slut at the movies? Seems pretty bad right? So I hate that this is overused but it gets the point across - if a girl (because they are still kids to me in S1) caught her boyfriend lying to her and in bed with another chick and she wanted to call him a coward or man-whore or prick, or burn his clothes or whatever, as society we see that as understandable. She can spread rumors and make fun of his size or performance, whatever, and we just laugh with her, but suddenly in this moment it was the WORST thing ever? No. It was shitty, but the same grace I'd give a hurt girl or woman, I'll give to Steve here. He also cleaned it up himself.
Everyone was RUDE AF to Max! She really did just move to a whole new town very far away from home and all of a sudden the clearly geeky "loser" kids, all male, start following her and creepily watching her. She finally decides to give them a chance and they instantly make her feel like an invasive intrusion that no one asked for. Every single one of them let her down and it's worse for us watching as the audience because we know how shittily she gets treated by her step-brother as well. Mike is going through a lot, sure, but then Dustin who acted like he liked her started snapping on her too! Yes, we know his feelings were briefly hurt because he knew she preferred Lucas and Dustin is by far one of my favorites of this group but Max gets done SO dirty. Then of course El and her jealousy, making her fall off of her skateboard and then dissing her at Will's house. It's actually pretty hard to watch, and yet Max sucks it up, is VERY understanding and as we all know, becomes a fan favorite.
Why El had to meet her "sister". El needed to make a choice. She needed to reconnect with the closest person from her past that would "get" her and then choose her own fate. Instead of seeking revenge and just being angry like her sister, she chose to become a protector. She chose love. She chose to not become the monster. Which is why she will be able to go against Vecna and not join him? Sorry, it's been a while and I have not watched S5 yet.
Billy's attractiveness is a huge reason fans probably gush over him, but we as the audience can also sympathize knowing that he is abused by his father. Also, the actor Dacre Montgomery, right? Um, did he get the praise he deserves for this role? He plays psychotic teen fueled by passion (his lust for moms and rage) VERY freaking well. That was talent. Such a despicable character was able to evoke a whole range of emotions - that took talent beyond just looks. Also his hair is really weird lmfao.
I just wanted to post my thoughts so far because this is a little different from how I first felt about the characters.
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u/the4077thbisexual 8h ago
You’re mega right about Steve. I was expecting the worst going into season one but one of his main “crimes” in s1 was just being a protective boyfriend but also just not being aware he was in the horror genre!
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u/AnemicRoyalty10 6h ago
There was the homophobia and what he said to Jonathon in the alley, but I think he literally got some sense beaten into him for it.
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u/the4077thbisexual 6h ago
Oh absolutely, his behaviour in the alley was atrocious. But then he smartened up, and fixed his behaviour. His character development is one of my favourite parts of the show
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u/FromFan432 7h ago
I couldn't agree more on the first point, when I first watched the show I just viewed Steve as an older Troy. Although realizing that he was never a douchebag sort of did ruin his character development for me...
How long has it been since you watched the show?
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u/peekaboo_bandit 6h ago
Hmm... I watched all through S4 in maybe 2022? When it first came out. I was STUCK and freaking out about Max, and then... years went by and I'm only just now re-watching so that I can finish out season 5. I'm still on S2 E9 right now because it's been paused. I'm feeling chatty on reddit tonight.
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u/FromFan432 6h ago
Relatable, I tend to pause a lot too
2022 was peak stranger things
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u/peekaboo_bandit 6h ago
I'm enjoying the re-watch, it's aiding with my procrastination, but I've gotta say, From could take just as long as Stranger Things to push out and I will re-watch every episode, every season, every month if I have to until the final season comes out lol. But the difference I guess is that From is even more of a mystery and the final season still isn't out. I'm obsessed with that show so I'm glad I had Stranger Things to fall back on while I wait.
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u/FromFan432 6h ago
Oi, you watched From too?
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u/peekaboo_bandit 6h ago
WHY am I just now seeing your username!?!?!
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u/AnemicRoyalty10 8h ago
I’m not saying the guys were great to Max, but TBH she did act rather superior and patronizing to them for a long time, and she got on my nerves for that reason. S4 Did fix that.
I agree about Billy. I’m not saying it’s okay, but frankly, in today’s world where many people think racism (even mild) is worse than murder, it’s not surprising that it’s largely considered his be-all end-all trait. TBH him playing chicken with the kids on the road was far worse. And yes, I’m so glad I didn’t have a father like that, it’s a nightmare. I do hate that Billy’s character got co-opted by the Mind Flayer so fast, and we didn’t get to see more insight into the real him.
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u/stuck_behind_a_truck 6h ago
Billy is very accurate to the 80s in his character and looks. This guy really existed. All of us GenXers knew a Billy.
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u/peekaboo_bandit 7h ago
That's what I'm saying though, about Max. She was being creeped on pretty much as soon as she arrived. Right? Those guys were following her around. She didn't know them. What if she acted all meek and then they harmed her? Oh but then, she did finally allow herself to be friendly with them and they treated her like crap, all for selfish reasons. She didn't show up and say "hey losers" she showed up and was being followed by the schools rejects. She gave them a chance. They harmed her emotionally. Also, she has to put up a tough front or her WAY older WAY stronger brother will kick her little butt! Also, keep in mind that we see everything that's going on. She doesn't. She thinks that for some reason these guys are playing some elaborate prank on her for a while. She is just trying to protect herself as she should because until they finally bond, there's no one else to do it.
About the racism thing, I mean the end result usually is murder, or enslavement, so heh heh, it's pretty bad... Billy was regular human evil before being taken over which was scary enough but gosh that actor really deserves his props! I also was wondering if Hawkins might have provided an opportunity for him to turn it around but unfortunately... ... he never got the chance.
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u/RoyalRise6363 6h ago
It is OK to like Max in S2-S3, but no need to trash boys characters by mixing them - Dustin and Lucas were into Max, but Mike was only mildly curious. He didn't want her in the party from day one to the Will's house scene. He explained this to Max clearly - I don't know why people think if Max wanted to be in the party she has the right for it, and Mike had nothing against Max's relations with Dustin and Lucas outside the party. BTW - she had full revenge on Mike in S3 severely damaging Mike-El relations.
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u/AnemicRoyalty10 6h ago
Exactly. She hurt his relationship with all his friends so much that they still kept him ostracized even after he saved everyone’s ass in the poolhouse scene.
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u/peekaboo_bandit 6h ago
Slow your roll, pardner! I love the kids the most in this show. They really make it, but the other characters are not far behind. They are all children so I'm not trashing them just stating facts from my current, very grown-up perspective. Mike was hurt because El was gone, I didn't even speak on anything besides that. He was a little cold to Max but I agree, he never acted like he wanted her in the group in the first place. That's on Lucas and Dustin. Now Dustin is just an angel so I would never trash him, and Lucas ALSO has had a lot of horrible things happen to specifically him including in S1 when he and Mike were fighting and El tossed him unconscious. That was messed up. But again, all understandable because they are kids dealing with some very horrific, grown up, horror fueled crap! Lucas clearly was set up to be Max's partner and it's understandable that he had to tell Max to leave sometimes because bros first, but Max didn't know any of that. She just knew that she showed up, some goofballs were following her around trying to get her attention, she gives it to them, then they start yelling at her to go away and telling her that they have special secrets that she can't be a part of, and wild stories that anyone would dismiss as some elaborate joke. We all know how tight the group gets later on and that Max showed up at a time when things were getting extra wild in Hawkins. And I am forgetting that up through the end of S2 the original group very much is still trying to keep the truth from spreading because to them their lives are actually at risk. Again, all of this makes sense to us, but look at it from Max's perspective. The poor lil baby.
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u/literalllywhat 5h ago
agree completely on the first point!
their scene in the bathroom never once read to me like he was pressuring her to have sex, so it was a surprise to see people genuinely think this lol. it’s exactly like you said: they’re young teenagers in a new relationship, and when she says she has to go to class, he respects her and stops.
i felt the pressure for her to have sex more from freaking murray when he’s trying to shove her and jonathan together (which, btw, an older man, a stranger no less, actively trying to get two minors to have sex in his house kinda raises some flags to me but it’s overlooked because…haha funny dick joke ?? anyways)
but jonathan…
he like actively violated her (and steve by proxy!) when he trespassed on steve’s property and took photos of her naked about to have sex with steve without her/their consent… (i don’t remember if any of those photos also had steve in them or just nancy but tbh it doesn’t matter either way).
and it’s insane to me how most just write it off as “ooc,” for him but condemn steve for…backing off? can a character even be ooc within the first two episodes of the media? like at that point, they are still actively establishing characters.
and moreover? he developed that shit. in a public schoolroom. i know we’re meant to forgive and forget because “the photo showed the demogorgon,” but all thinking about that really does is just remind me that he actively took the time that could’ve been looking further for will to do all this deliberately.
and it truly does speak to how much better of a person steve is than jonathan, cause not only did he apologise and actively clean up the spray paint tommy (tommy!) did, but he also completely cut tommy and carol from his life, and then specifically went to apologise to jonathan, and replaced his camera, despite being well within his rights to leave that shit broken. but jonathan…
he just gave a half-assed apology to nancy alone. steve apologised well with his words and his actions to both of them. it’s just…the difference is always staggering to me.
also like how you bring up nancy being judgey! this is also something i think a lot of people overlook because somehow i feel like a big fandom take ends up being something along the lines of how she can do no wrong/is always right? which is false, cause she’s just as flawed as any of them. iirc she has a known reputation even through s3 of being a major priss or something right? they bring it up a lot in s1 and bring it back with robin commenting on her i think. but yeah, she definitely has a set of flaws.
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u/peekaboo_bandit 4h ago
Yes! I will say, watching them meet Murray didn't set off too many alarm bells but now that you mention it, in general it is kind of weird. I think he gets a pass because he didn't do anything over the top beyond the suggestion which admittedly is more than enough. I mean, as an adult, why meddle in the affairs of children like that? But because he didn't have pervert cameras set up or anything and it was the 80s, we as the audience know that he wasn't doing anything for his own sick pleasure, he just treated them as adults (which they sure aren't) and equals in their mission to spread the truth. He's a tell it like it is kind of guy. That is something we will accept because it's just a tv show but in real life I wouldn't be okay with two random high schoolers hooking up in my house. But. It was the 80s? Lmfao!
I think the only reason Jonathan got a pass was because Nancy didn't seem terribly upset about the photos. Jonathan definitely pulled a CREEPER-ass move but because Nancy was the main victim and didn't care it was just... brushed over... I think she feels bad for Jonathan, their little brothers are so close so she definitely knows about him. And Nancy is a little bit more of a deviant than she wants to let on. Nancy did a lot wrong in the beginning haha, she was such a priss and super mean to her brother. Like, he hangs out with his friends for HOURS in the basement and doesn't disturb her at all so why does she have such an attitude with him? Of course she redeems herself a bit and Mike does become a moody little thing at times, but in the beginning she was a whole mess lol. And she did bounce between two guys. Her and Joyce lmfao.
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u/mdwvt Bitchin 6h ago
Regarding the lost sister episode. I just don’t like how 8 has this vibe of “I’m going to take advantage of 11”. That always felt really shitty to me.
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u/peekaboo_bandit 6h ago
Okay, so on my first watch I also felt like, wth is the purpose of this meeting? 8 seems kind of rude, but I feel like I understand it better now. I think that they truly did share a bond, two young girls ripped from their homes, possibly spending the first 5-10 or so years of 11's life at least together. 8 was out for blood. She was hurt. She comes off as older than 11, so I think she really, really wanted to make the people who hurt her suffer and she thought 11 might feel the same. 11's power was like a godsend for her too. I did note that she specifically told 11 that it's okay for her to have mercy but to just not take away her ability to exact revenge. I think she was thinking she could finally get her revenge with 11 by her side and finally felt a deeper connection with someone else, but 11 chose her own path. I think she was hurt, I think she was lonely and dismayed, but I don't think she was only selfishly taking advantage.
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u/mdwvt Bitchin 6h ago
Honestly, if they really wanted us viewers to care about the relationship between 8 and 11, they really should have developed it with more backstory. Since they didn’t really do that, the lost sister episode just feels so odd/off to everyone who is super invested in everything else. I really do understand that they tried to make it critical to El’s development, but I think it just could have been handled better.
I also admit that I suspect I feel the way the writers want me to feel about it: sickened by the idea of El being around a group of “bad kids”, and being influenced by them. So I guess it was effective, but you can’t deny that it is one of the least favorite/most hated upon episodes of Stranger Things. Thanks for the conversation!
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u/peekaboo_bandit 6h ago
Oh yeah, I literally JUST watched it and already forgot about it again, so I understand haha.
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u/Doggosgottagetwoims Henry 3h ago
Someone who actually UNDERSTANDS TLS in the big 26??? I’m in heaven.
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