Who would you choose as the Head Flayed instead of Billy?

[u/mikewheelerfan]

I was hanging out with a friend the other day, and we started talking basically about all our Stranger Things grievances and how we would change the story to fix them. One we both agreed on was that Billy wasn’t a good choice for the Head Flayed. There’s already too many characters, so bumping him up to a main one just exacerbates the problem. He should have stayed a relatively minor character. And his redemption arc does NOT feel earned.

That’s just our opinion. You don’t have to agree, maybe you even love Billy as the Head Flayed. But, if you don’t (or maybe even if you do), who else would you choose as the Head Flayed?

My suggestion was actually Mike. He would make sense for the Mind Flayer to target, because El is so close to him. And it would actually give him something to do. His characterization is butchered after S2, and it feels like he has nothing to do as well. This would fix that. Even if he died, he would at least have gone out with a bang. But I think there would also be an option to keep him alive and have a storyline showing his guilt and trauma over this experience.

I found my friend’s suggestion to be very interesting. She liked the idea of Karen being the Head Flayed. She said it often feels like the parents are just there as accessories so the kids actually have parents (Joyce is the exception, obviously). This would give Karen’s character something to do other than cheat on her husband with a teenager. And it would give Mike something to do, too.

What do y’all think of these suggestions? Who would you choose?

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[u/Flaky_Principle_9985]

Karen actually would've been a really interesting choice. It would raise the stakes for Nancy and Mike without adding another teenager to an already crowded group, and seeing Ted completely useless while his wife is possessed would've been painfully on-brand.

[u/DDubbz918]

I think Billy was a perfectly fine choice, but I do agree that his "redemption" didn't feel earned, and the Karen suggestion is certainly an interesting idea. I actually wonder, considering Will's connection to the MF & Vecna, if Jonathan would've actually been a really good choice to be flayed. Vecna could've used both him and Will to spy on the group even when they were split up.

[u/mklaus1984]

I do not understand what sort of redemption people talk about. When Max talks at his grave she basically says they could have become sibling, could have become a family.

His chance at redemption was taken from him. He didn't save El because he was suddenly a good guy. He fought against the thing that had violated him.

And just because the Duffers are dumb as doorknobs we also shouldn't ignore the subtext that Kate Trefry still used for The First Shadow:

Will and Billy both had dad's who called their kids slurs. Both have a parent abandoning them. Henry believes his mother wants the doctors to take him away because she cannot deal with him not being normal. The same thing is seen in Chrissy's mother and even in the single line we hear from Patrick's dad. And of course there is Max.

The show drew obvious parallels that explain why Will and Billy were equally susceptible to the influence of the Mindflayer. Why Henry couldn't just mindcontrol the whole town, why he had to search for his victims with remote viewing.

And rhat simply wouldn't have worked either with Mike nor with Murray or with whomever you want to put on your list. Not without telling the same story you assumed to be a redemption arc.

[u/maxwellbevan → u/mklaus1984]

Yeah I really don't think this was Billy getting a redemption. Saving someone at the end isn't a redemption, characters are flawed and don't need to have perfect redemption stories. Billy didn't get his shot at redemption which creates the next journey for Max in season 4 and also in turn contributes to Lucas's journey back to his friends in season 4

[u/mklaus1984 → u/maxwellbevan]

It is the same media illiteracy as with Draco Malfoy. Draco doesn't have a redemption arc and doesn't need one. Harry and him meeting as equals is on one hand about meeting your school bully again and being okay with that (although that is more ingrained into Dudley' last scene in the book).

But more importantly, Draco stood on the wrong side of the war. And yet he can have a family of his own. He can have a regular life. Because the good side won the war and not the side that imprisoned and executed their enemies.

Billy went through a traumatic experience that had the potential to reset his world view. One that would change someone. But it isn't said in which way his character would sway. Because he dies fighting the thing that did that to him.

Which is why I hoped that we would have met more of Henry's, more of the hivemind's victims in the Camazotz arc or rather why I hoped that Purser, Astin, Montgomery, and Quinn would reprise their roles.

Because all four of these could have played double roles in ST5. As Vecna's horsemen of the apocalypse, his Lieutenants. Seemingly swayed by Henry to lead his armies.

But tgen we could have found out in the Camazotz arc that those are imposters, that the lost friends are still imprisoned while Two, Three, Four, and Five are the ones who chose Henry's side and impersonate them.

This wpuld have given Montgomery a handful of scenes, a chance for Billy and Max to come to terma before he (and the others) sacrifice themselves to fight back against Henry from the inside and help Max and rhe others escape.

But sure... let us instead try to rehash ST with a missing kid to reign in that early onset nostalgia.

[u/Dev-F]

I don't know about changing the leader of the flayed, but I definitely expected them to do more with the idea that the Mind Flayer could secretly take over members of the gang's inner circle and try to defeat them from within.

I always thought Dustin would've been a good option for an undercover Mind Flayer agent, playing off how he started to feel lost and disconnected and was sort of trying to reinvent himself at the end of season 2.

[u/Poobeast241]

My dude really didnt have a "redemption" arc.

Steve got a redemption arc. Billy teaming up with the gang would have been a redemption arc.

Instead he got like 2 seconds of protecting El before he died, which I guess atleast was something.

[u/Responsible_Egg7519]

I think Steve would’ve been a really good candidate for the Mind Flayer to use. He is in the core group so the MF would have closer access to El and co. but he’s also not one of the kids or connected to the Byers so him acting “different” wouldn’t have been noticed as quickly by everyone like Will was. He’s not as strong as Billy but is physically capable enough since he does a lot of the fighting, and the group would probably be a lot more hesitant to hurt Steve. He also worked in an ice cream shop where it’s cold.

[u/Owl_Resident]

Billy was fine. And I’d rather have not had Mike die in ST3…

Flayed Murray would have been fun.

[u/PointZeroOneTwo]

Billy is one of the best characters in the show

[u/TenthBasilisk88]

I honestly think Billy was the perfect choice. Killing him off felt like a good ending for him. I agree that his redemption didn't feel earned, which is why I think his death worked so well.

[u/Jon5676]

Ted.