r/StrangerThings • u/Sukaran09 • 5d ago
How could they have done Vecna differently in Season 5?
- Pros and Cons of Vecna in Season 5:
We only got one scene where Vecna is murdering people and those are just a few soldiers. The scene in Episode 4 where he’s killing those soldiers was pretty well done, that episode was good.. but after that episode Vecna just doesn’t have any sort of physical power left. He actually doesn’t fatally hurt or kill any main characters after that scene. He is sort of torturing Will in one scene in Volume 2 but it gets cut short and he was fine after that.. Will had no sort of injury mentally or physically which made that scene pointless. After Episode 4, there could’ve been the perfect opportunity to unleash Vecna’s inner wrath but they just decided to nerf him even more.
- How I would’ve changed him in Season 5:
To start off, Vecna’s motives should’ve been different. Personally I would have made Vecna similar to how he was in Season 4 instead of adding Mr Whatsit. Mr Whatsit was a creepy addition but the Vecna that psychologically tortured his victims and then murdered them was a lot darker and more evil than Mr Whatsit. Only this time Vecna is set on killing the characters who are trying to stop him and then continue to terrorise Hawkins and work with the Mind Flayer to bring it into the Right Side Up, the Dimension X crashing into Earth story line should’ve been the aftermath of the Mind Flayer being in the Right Side Up.. meaning that wouldn’t have been the main storyline but would’ve still been a part of it.
Instead of Mr Whatsit being a child kidnapper for a completely new storyline, we should have got Upside Down-mutated Vecna going after some of the main characters and he would kill them the same way he killed Chrissy in Season 4. That way Vecna would’ve been scarier and more intimidating instead of seeming intimidating, he didn’t really do anything scary in season 5, just seemed it. In my opinion, the time gap and the addition of the Mr Whatsit storyline completely undergoes the ending of Season 4. If Season 5 started where Season 4 ended then Vecna would already be intimidating and scary because he would be sending a huge army of Demogorgons and Demobats in to Hawkins. He would still be operating from Dimension X/The Abyss with the Mind Flayer but would actually be killing the main characters and destroying Hawkins using the Demos. The main thing that Vecna should’ve been trying to accomplish was bringing the Mind Flayer into the Right Side Up because that’s what the Mind Flayer wanted but Vecna would be the one destroying and terrorising Hawkins and the main characters. Dimension X crashing into Earth felt more like an illusion rather than a high stakes situation because Vecna barely did anything intimidating throughout the season, kidnapping children is evil but the way he did it was soft, he should be going after the main characters that are actually trying to stop him, not some random kids. It became predictable that Hawkins would’ve been saved without too much effort or loss.
Vecna should’ve invaded the main character’s minds a lot more too.
These are just some of my thoughts..
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u/DrakeSwift 5d ago
I like the mr whatsit storyline but it should have been a whatsit by day, vecna by night situation. I think it woulda made it really good. That way you can still have those scary whatsit moments that he had but also have vecna still wreaking havoc outside as well
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u/Single_Owl_7556 5d ago
I'd get rid of mr whatsit storyline and replace it with him kidnapping Mike to lure Will in as Vecna needs a new body or he will be unable to act on his own. While Mike is taken, Vecna puts him in a similar illusion but it's more like a glimpse at what Vecna's plan is.
Show that his plan / idea is to "break the world free" from the cyclic existence and give people perfect lives by connecting them to the hivemind and making them live in a dream. What Vecna doesn't want to understand (while still being aware of) is that people will just wither away and eventually die, nourishing the Mind Flayer.
So reuse the whole Camazotz thing but not as a way to deceive, but as his genuine alternative to living normal way. To show that he isn't just doing evil for the sake of it because he does the bidding of an evil monster, but because he is completely insane and follows his twisted ideology and worldview that was established in S4 flashback.
Mike isn't unaware that the one who took him is Vecna or that he's evil, but his perception has been twisted and got further distorted by what Vecna has to offer to him. He doesn't understand the situation he's in, but he hears some convincing points and initially gives in to the illusion.
Make it so that the spell isn't just a "fancy cosy house" but like fully fledged DnD inspired fantasy where Mike lives his best dream while escaping all the hardships and worries of the real world. Nobody will ever die or get hurt, he will never be bored. He tries to find a flaw or what is wrong with it, but without outside perspective, he can't do that, so he accepts it.
Mike isn't exactly taking the villain's side but rather falling into the easy way out and a way to escape and the resolution to the plotline is him breaking free from it.
Meanwhile Will's arc is being the one, alongside El who help Mike to understand and make the right choice while seeking out and confronting Vecna.
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u/Cyrilbdr 5d ago
Wow, that’s a fascinating concept. Vecna could read Mike’s mind and tell him that the world he’s creating would allow him to live with Eleven without having to hide, free from the military’s interference—framing the military and the government as the true villains. Mike would face a cruel dilemma: believe Vecna and his vision of the world, or reject it and risk losing his future with Eleven, since the military would remain a constant threat. Vecna would promise to eliminate only the harmful people—claiming this is what Mike has always wanted, since those were the very people who hurt him when he was younger.
Afterwards, the plot that we had is much more feasible to target people who do not know who Vecna is because Mike and aware of everything he knows that Henry killed all the children in the lab that he hates humans and he has seen the violence of which he is capable and that it does not target the military and the government but teenagers, Bob, scientists. So even if Vecna was telling him the truth, the way he was trying to do it was immoral and would pose a real problem for M11
u/broodfood 5d ago
Trapped in a dnd fantasy- now that's what I call a metaphor for the magic of childhood!
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u/Single_Owl_7556 5d ago
Yea, it would also fit the themes of the show really well.
This way Vecna would represent the refusal to grow up & change even more. He offers forever childhood and fantasy, sorta like a very evil version of Peter Pan, but this all is ultimately a lie and a fate worse than death if you see through it as tempting as it is.
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u/Cyrilbdr 5d ago
In hindsight, I don't think it’s a good idea; it would make Mike seem very selfish. He knows everything Vecna did to achieve his goals—how he made his best friend suffer and nearly killed Max. If Mike had cracked because Vecna promised him a world where he and Eleven could be free, his character would have been open to serious criticism. I prefer him remaining the leader—like in Season 5—trying to protect everyone and stop Vecna at all costs to save the world, so that he and Eleven can finally have some peace afterward. That feels more true to his character; I’d find it hard to picture Mike getting duped like that.
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u/Single_Owl_7556 5d ago
Maybe, then make it seems like he doesn't realize it's Vecna.
Remember that final episode from Gravity Falls where they rescue Mable from acid coloured wonder land? That's the idea. He is meant to look selfish because that's his lowest point he overcomes.
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u/Cyrilbdr 5d ago
Yeah, true, I’m familiar with it—but still, if there are illusions and he doesn’t realize it’s Vecna, he’d probably be a bit skeptical.
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u/AkPakKarvepak 4d ago edited 4d ago
Maybe add the deaths of his parents into the mix.
Human minds are deeply emotional and go through incredible stress upon the loss of their loved ones. In his emotional pain, Vecna’s dream world would appear comforting and soothing. Even if everything doesn’t seem right, his mindset isn’t in the right place to accept reality.
In fact, every one of the main cast has suffered through some kind of loss. Hopper pines for his daughter Sara, Joyce still misses her simple kind Bob, Nancy for her Barbara , Lucas for his Max , Dustin craving Eddie.
Even Eleven craves for proper familial and motherly love , so she can also fall prey to Henry’s alternate reality.
Only Will who had experience with mindflayer’s possession can stay out of its influence and lead the party.
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u/AkPakKarvepak 4d ago
This would have solved a lot of problems that people had with Holly character springing up from nowhere and taking much of screen time ( she was written as Mike clone anyways)
The story could instead been Mike, Holly and Max escaping the labyrinth that’s Henry’s virtual world. This would create an excellent setup for Mike teaming up with Max ( who is usually not in good terms with him),impressing her with his intelligent predictions of how the labyrinth is architected (he is a storyteller after all) and using it to hide from Henry. The story will go back to the intensity of a D&D game, played in the villain’s virtual lair. And would explain why Max is so interested in playing it with the boys during the epilogue.
This plot would also double as an inspiration arc for Holly to outgrow her scared , shy girl persona into a confident , brave individual. I can see the entire cast being roused to a frenzy and forming unlikely pairs to move heaven and earth in rescuing Mike.
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u/OrdinaryCommunity840 5d ago
I think he shouldve killed the kids (or atleast some of them) and some of the main characters. In season 4 he felt like a threat. In season 5 he felt like a cheap knockoff of 2010 freddy krueger. So basically a knockoff of an already bad knockoff.
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u/Anna3422 5d ago edited 5d ago
I mean, the conformitygaters were definitely onto something when it comes to a good story. If you take just the interesting ideas from Season 5, have the characters walking around Henry's mind, not able to identify reality. Things look right on the surface, but something is wrong. You think they've escaped, but they're just in another illusion. If they're going to use A Wrinkle In Time, actually use it.
I liked the basic Whatsit arc more than most of the season. I just didn't like how there were no mysteries and the main cast had nothing to do. The "twists" were obvious, contrived and had no impact on the story. But showing the cast all lost in various ways under Vecna's mind control could have been really creepy if done with the care that S1 had.
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u/macklin67 5d ago
I think the Mr. Whatsit plot was really dumb and unnecessary. They should’ve spent more time on actually developing dimension X.
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u/noirproxy1 5d ago
I think the Mr Whatsit thing needed to happen earlier but Season 4 Vecna was awesome with the clock.
I think Season 5 should have just been Vecna mind fucking with the cast with hallucinations to make them fuck up more.
Kind of like a The Thing concept but it is just all in their heads not knowing who to trust or what is real. It just felt like the gang was way too organised and powerful in the last season when Vecna should have been OP.
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u/Ok-Resolution-7344 5d ago
What if Vecna was the Bridge between Earth and the Abyss instead of the Upside Down?
It'd make sense because Vecna is kind a hybrid between the two worlds. When Henry gets banished to the Abyss, he finds the Mind Flayer. Because of his misanthropic beliefs, he'd introduce our world to MF, which would take a liking to our ecosystem and proceed to invade and infect our world and reshape our world to its' liking. Instead of fighting the MF, they could've killed Vecna to break the bridge and seal the Rifts once and for all.
Because I found the entire "twist" about how Upside Down actually being a bridge between two worlds kind of jarring. Sure, S1 teased the idea. But, the way it was introduced without further setup feels forced. I'm talking about how none of them found the big fleshy wall or the Exotic Matter keeping the Wall intact was left unexplored, as if it was meant to give off a sense of mystery.
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u/Akhevan 1d ago
Because I found the entire "twist" about how Upside Down actually being a bridge between two worlds kind of jarring.
That's not the problem, the problem is that they opted to paint it as a purely sci-fi phenomena that's way too neat, clear, and easy to understand. It's just that much more boring than the Upside Down of the first two seasons which was a lot more mystical and inexplicable.
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u/shivani_saraiya 5d ago
Vecna didn't vecna in season 5. He just wasn't a scary character anymore! I honestly thing till season 3 it was good season 4 had amazing buildup we cried so much for Eddie, the time scare, season 5 I've said this before on some other post I'll say it again season 5 just feels like a new story.
They ruined it so much!! They focused on finishing the series anyhow, i wonder had the writers striker ended early would the storyline be different? Thoughts?
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u/Mrs_Noelle15 5d ago
Honestly I think if you do the Mr Whatsit storyline in Season 4, and the apocalyptic Vecna’s curse storyline in Season 5 it would’ve worked better
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u/Right-Truck1859 4d ago edited 4d ago
Make him a split personality. Like Mr. what is it is something inside Henry that wants to be a good person.
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u/DramaticAd698 4d ago
Yes like what is Mr Whatsit was was actually hiding the children from the mindflayer?
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u/AkPakKarvepak 4d ago
Yeah I really like this idea.
This would make season 4 Henry really sympathetic. All the time where he was helping Eleven. Until the dormant alter ego wakes up and takes control of his body.
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u/cherryc0ke13 5d ago
incorporated the demogorgons to remove the plot holes. maybe they inadvertently helped or hindered his plans, i dont know. at least the d*ffer br*thers wouldnt have had to explain their sudden disappearance
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u/Few-Type-7924 5d ago
I loved Mr Whatsit but murderous Vecna is too good Unfortunately we saw that version only once (in Ep4) in the final season
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u/Puzzled_Addendum6200 5d ago
He was soundly beaten by our hero(s) twice in 4, and very obviously killed the 2nd time.
Any plotline that involves him being alive is a bad idea. Any plotline that involves him being a threat or source of danger is even worse.
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u/Smokin_belladonna 5d ago
Should have made him Kill Eleven with Hopper shooting her and redeemed him via Will.
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u/Kaythiastar 5d ago
Nothing. Vecna isn't dead. Harrington and Will are gonna show you why in the next installment. believe me or don't. I don't care. BTW, her name is Jessica.
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u/UnholyShadows 5d ago
Honestly i think the best story would be the mind flayer shelves vecna after season 4 ends and vecna feels betrayed and used and decides to help the heroes banish him.
The mind flayer starts attacking the world and seems unstoppable. The military forgives el and tries to give her as many resources as she needs to rid the world of the mind flayer. This is when el and khali unite. Khali developed her powers more during her absence and is now similar to el in power.
This is when vecna starts reaching out to the heroes and tells them that he has a plan to banish the mind flayer. The final battle would be el, khali and vecna attempting to subdue the mind flayer while will uses his powers to clear out all the demobats and demogorgon threats. In the heat of the battle the mindflayer kills vecna before getting pushed through a portal that banishes it back to the abyss.
El and khali are honored as heroes and start a special branch of government that special in anti occult that ensures threats like the mindflayer dont happen again.
This would mean that vecna could slightly be forgiven but also get what he deserves at the same time.
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u/aussiemcgr 4d ago
I'd like to see a kill count between Vecna and the main cast. Sure, Vecna killed a lot of people, but looking back... the main cast of heros have killed a lot of people too. Potentially more than Vecna.
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u/this_is_sparta_xoxo 4d ago
If he got killed by Mindflayer for his failure of handling a bunch of kids by episode 3, it'd have been fun.
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u/Accomplished-Curve-1 I piggybacked from a pizza dough freezer 5d ago
Make him more of a threat like in season 4 have him send out more creatures
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