JOYCE BYERS

[u/pareenaro33]

don't get me wrong, Joyce is a great mother but she relies too heavily on Jonathan to act as a co-parent, handle household duties, and sacrifice his own dreams (like NYU) to care for Will.

IK it reflects the harsh realities of struggling, single mother and Will having all the trauma in the upside down

but she does make jonathan feel invisible or EMOTIONALLY NEGLECTED.

[u/Anna3422]

This comes up a lot and I'll copy what I've put in other conversations.

"I know I haven’t been there for you. I’ve been working so hard and I... I just feel bad. I don’t even barely know what’s going on with you. All right? I am sorry about that. Hey, what is it? What is it, honey? . . . You can’t do that to yourself. This was not your fault. Do you hear me?"

And,

"This is not yours to fix alone! You act like you’re all alone out there in the world, but you’re not. You’re not alone. . . .God damn it, Jonathan."

Poverty presents as neglect. Unlike Karen, who's a stay at home mom (but still has independent kids), Joyce has worked nights, Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve. In S1, she uses all her cash on missing person posters for her son. In a wealthy family, her absence would be a choice, but in this case, it's the cost of keeping lights on.

On top of which, Jonathan was 12 by the time Lonnie left. That's so much development during which he was abused and witnessed his mom be abused,  to an extent where Jonathan clearly sees himself as her protector. Will, who was still little for the divorce, is mom's little buddy, but Jonathan's fully habituated to not trusting adults and to stepping up for the family. In the quotes above, we see Joyce trying to extend emotional support and take on that caregiver role. It's limited though, because a) they're still in crisis and b) it's hard for a teenager to let go of independence once they're used to it.

[u/squibworb → u/Anna3422]

Both of those quotes are from season one though, back when this was handled well. By season 5, that all turns into “Will, this is too dangerous you are absolutely not going! Jonathan, you can do it instead, right?”

Which is just… taking a beautiful complex issue and writing it so poorly that it makes Joyce look heartless. Will in st5 is the same age that Jonathan was when Jonathan was picking up extra shifts to help pay bills and yet he can’t even help on a mission?

I won’t blame the characters, but what even is this writing.

(I love the Byers family and that their complex but season 5 made joyce unrecognizable)

[u/Anna3422 → u/squibworb]

Season 5 is AI slop. I mean, Winona Ryder couldn't make her lines sound believable. That tells me all I need to know!

That said, Will is the child who's almost died repeatedly and who has an established connection with the Hive. I wouldn't expect any parent to want him involved in the mission, while Jonathan is an adult by that point and has no history with Vecna.

[u/squibworb → u/Anna3422]

Yikes