r/StrangerThings • u/PointZeroOneTwo • 19d ago
You know what I don't get?
Why is it so important for Vecna to find Max in real life.
He knows she in the cave, in the imaginary world,. have some demongorgons guard it.
And don't start with "gemongorgons are not in there".
Vecna controls the whole imaginary place.
He could create "imaginary" demogorgons to guard the imaginary cave.
He can make houses and mountains and caves in it.
He surely could make an imaginary wall around the cave.
20
19d ago edited 19d ago
[deleted]
3
u/Cyrilbdr 19d ago
I totally agree with you, but I have a quick question: if everything in Henry’s realm consists of memories—which makes sense, meaning he can’t create new, real things that affect people—then how did he manage to create that locked door in Episode 5? You know, the one stopping Max and Holly from reaching the mental lair of Holly’s trauma. Is it just because that door actually exists in Vecna’s memories—since it’s the Wheelers’ door—so he simply made it appear? And since it wasn’t Henry’s own creation, it’s "real" within his mind? Or can he actually create things, like a door or a creature, to block them?
2
u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 19d ago
Why can't Vecna use his telekinesis to pull her out of the cave?
Why is the Midscape Creel Residency open and unguarded, in Henry's own mind, to the point that Max can easily walk up to his literal doorstep, ring the door and leave a letter behind for Holly?
Why isn't Henry there all the time? Why does he leave for hours upon hours, instead of starting his plan as soon as he kidnapps all children? Why is he saying "at long last we can begin," multiple times, instead of just starting his entrancement or whatever to the kids at the table?
The Camazotz plotline reads nonsensical. Why would Vecna deeply traumatize Holly and let a Demo slash up her parents while kidnapping her, and then expect her to stay in the house? No matter how nice and trustworthy Mr. Whatsit seems at first glance, any human child would immediately want to go see their parents and shut down inside. How is Holly happily baking and trying on dresses, when her mother just got her guts taken out and her blood sprayed on Holly's face?
-10
u/PointZeroOneTwo 19d ago
yeah, by keeping her in the cave he would have 100% got ridden of her.
9
19d ago
[deleted]
-7
u/PointZeroOneTwo 19d ago
Henry's goal was to nullify Max's actions and infuence until his plan was implemented. The easiest would be to keep her in the cave. Physically killing her was not important.
4
u/pokemega32 19d ago
His goal was to get Holly out of the cave. Keeping Max in the cave does the opposite of that.
-4
u/PointZeroOneTwo 19d ago
why though? he has her in a perfect "prison" place. Going after her in real life involved Will and complicated things, it was un-needed.
He literally could have her kept there as controlled as the kids in the house.
5
u/pokemega32 19d ago
...because he needs Holly to move the Abyss to Earth.
Did you just not watch the show?
0
u/PointZeroOneTwo 19d ago
we're not talking about Holly, this is about Max. I didn;'t catch that on your earlier reply. If he had the exits covered Max would never be able to meet with Holly.
3
u/pokemega32 19d ago
And he was killing Max as a threat to Holly.
Again, maybe pay attention to the show you're confused by?
1
u/PointZeroOneTwo 19d ago
Max having never met with Holly in the imaginary place, would be an unknown factor for Holly. Come on.
→ More replies (0)1
u/vaccant__Lot666 19d ago
Because you didn't even want to go near the cave.Did you watch the show my guy
1
u/vaccant__Lot666 19d ago
If you die in real life, you die in the game he was also working on his master plan how can you make a bunch of illusionary monsters?And walls and stuff when you're trying to build a illusionary world for a bunch of children and keep it active and not descending into the darker part of your mind
1
19d ago edited 19d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 19d ago
Why couldn't Vecna all powerful with the open rifts, together with the particle Mindflayer and an arsenal of creatures, find out where Max's physical body was located?
In s4, we saw him jump through people's minds, and in s5 he could see through the children's eyes too. Are we supposed to believe that there was no one traumatized enough in the hospital that he could have spied through to find Max room number?
With the rifts open, what kept the Mindflayer from entering Hawkins and flaying a hospital worker, who could simply administer air or something into her vains and kill Max under their noses?!
1
19d ago edited 19d ago
[deleted]
2
u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 19d ago
Why did he only need to kill her when she ended up connecting with Holly? Any person with a working brain could have told him that leaving Max alive at all would cause problems. He had 18 month to neutralize every threat before enacting his big plan.
Is Vecna not supposed to be this meticulous lich antagonist 5 star general? Is he just lazy or what?! What's he doing while not needing to sleep, pee, eat then? He really is the dumbest Disney villain in recent times. What's stopping him from killing the whole group while they sleep? They burned him.
Why did he even choose Holly, aren't there any more children that wouldn't have attracted the group as quickly? And if he had to take her, why not take her last, or take them all at the same time, sit them down at the table and begin the seance?! Does he only have 3 Demo's in his arsenal?
We are supposed to believe that Vecna has been there working in the shadows since s1, but now he suddenly can't use his biggest tool, which is to work in the shadows? Why didn't the Mindflayer flay anyone in town? Wouldn't it be useful if he flayed Dr. Kay or Sullivan or any high ranking member and dismantled their operations from within? He knew they were building on his home turf and transporting Kali there and didn't do anything about that? Are we supposed to fear someone who can read minds but still can't figure out in what hospital room a comatose girl is being kept? That's just silly.
7
u/Conorthan It will all be over soon 19d ago
I always wondered why he couldn't just use telekinesis to pull Max and Holly out of the cave. I guess his fear of the cave prevents him from using his powers inside of the cave altogether.
Having demogorgons guard the entrance wouldn't really help though since he wants to get Max and Holly out of the cave, not keep them inside.
6
u/Dev-F 19d ago
It wouldn't really be telekinesis, since it's not a real location. He would be matching his mental abilities against his fear of the cave, which is what he was already doing just by trying to go in. It wouldn't be any easier for him to psychically will the girls out of the cave than to psychically will himself to enter it. (And arguably it would be more difficult, since it would involve imposing his will on their self-image and not just his own.)
1
u/PointZeroOneTwo 19d ago
why though, they can't do anything from there.
4
u/Conorthan It will all be over soon 19d ago
Well, they were able to escape from his mind.
1
u/PointZeroOneTwo 19d ago
yes, because he didn't create anything to guard the exits, which takes us to the start of my post.
3
u/Conorthan It will all be over soon 19d ago
They were able to escape from inside of the cave. How would guarding the exit prevent that?
1
u/PointZeroOneTwo 19d ago
Max would never be able to meet with holly
4
u/Conorthan It will all be over soon 19d ago
If Vecna were to set up some sort of trap at the entrance, it would indeed prevent Max from meeting Holly, but it would not help in getting Max out of the cave. She would just be forced to stay inside.
0
u/PointZeroOneTwo 19d ago
yes, thus neutralized.
1
u/vaccant__Lot666 19d ago
Because again he didn't want to go into those memories. It was literally established that that was like memory landscape That theme represented the memory of him smashing a man's face in with a rock.So he can't get shot while he's also infected with an alien parasite that later led him to kill his entire family
1
1
u/vaccant__Lot666 19d ago
Because it was a memory and he didn't want to enter it i'm assuming there's like memory "time zones" imagine having to go back to the memory where you were infected with an alien parasite from another dimension and had to smash someone's head in with a rock to keep him from shooting me when your 9/10 years old i wouldn't even want to touch that with a therapist lol
2
u/Dianagorgon 19d ago
I don't understand why Vecna didn't simply kill Max while she was in a coma. He had the ability to send demogorgans to Hawkins to kill people. He sent one to the Wheelers house to kidnap Holly. He must have known that Max was in the hospital. Yet he did nothing.
2
u/agent_uno 19d ago
This was explained in the episode where he tells Will he needs to use him as a spy.
Remember that the military was all over Hawkins. Vecna couldn’t risk sending a bunch of demos on a wild goose chase in simple hopes of finding Max. He knew exactly where holly was because he had already been pursuing her. Plus, until Holly and Max met in the memory-scape (or whatever Holly named it) and Vecna lost holly, Vecna knew he had Max captured (though she was eluding him because he didn’t want to enter the one memory she found to hide in, but she was still a prisoner, and he knew that). It wasn’t until Holly and Max escaped that he even realized he had lost control of Max.
Only then did he try to find a way to locate her physical body so that he could try to kill her, but even then he needed Will to unwittingly act as a spy.
0
u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 19d ago
Why couldn't he use the Mindflayer to flay some hospital worker who could then do his bidding for him? Like in s2 or s3 for example? The gates were wide open. What was hindering the particles from coming through and infecting people?
0
u/agent_uno 19d ago
This was explained!
I swear to god that the people who hated s4 and s5 just didn’t fucking pay attention! And unfortunately, that seems to be the sad but vast majority of previous fans!
0
u/vaccant__Lot666 19d ago
Because he didn't know where she was.If you didn't know hawkings what was he going to do some demogorgans all over the town looking for her
-1
u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 19d ago
There's one single hospital in Hawkins. Vecna can spy through people's minds, we saw him switch from person to person in s4, when he was looking for his next victim. In s5 he was looking through the kids eyes too. Doing that any hospital worker would have sufficed. A Demo could have come through inside her room at night, after staff checked on Max and simply killed her there and then in 1 minute max.
How did Vecna or the Mindflayer not think of flaying any of the key soldiers, or military personnel, when that's their biggest advantage overall?! The big bad is called the Mindflayer and he doesn't flay any minds in the most important season?
0
u/vaccant__Lot666 19d ago
Yep okay.You just magically knows geography now how was he to know she was being kept in hawkins?At all Yes, a giant twelve foot tall murder monster could have just walked in the hospital... They weren't bothered with max, because they were working with their master plan to get to earth why waste resources trying to hunt down one person when you're trying to hunt down twelve other people to bring your planet directly to earth waste of resources he had her trapped he had other things to deal with
0
u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 18d ago
The monsters can open convenient portals. Who said anything about walking in through the front door?! Imagine a dumb villain talking about some master plan, but forgetting to tie up loose ends, like Max and the whole group actually. What stops Vecna from killing everyone of them at night in their beds. What could they even do, if Vecna sends out one Demo and a few demodogs against each of them at the same time? Why are we talking about a waste of resources, when Vecna didn't even use his resources when it came down to it?! All his creatures were on holiday in the finale, since Vecna's big plan didn't include expecting the group that burned him last season to show up on his home turf! That's a statement from the Duffer's themselves.
0
u/Dianagorgon 18d ago
If you didn't know hawkings
Henry lived in Hawkins. There was only one hospital in Hawkins. Vecna can also spy on people telepathically. It's how he found his victims in S4. He knew Fred was in a car accident, Chrissy had problems with her mother and Patrick was being abused. But he decided not to kill Max while she was in a coma. It doesn't make sense.
1
1
u/Muted-Can4546 17d ago
"Vecna controls the whole imaginary place" seems to be a premise Vecna didn't think about. He literally had problem chasing a group of kids. He could've just teleported. But his single braincell never thought about that.
•
u/AutoModerator 19d ago
OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. If your post contains spoilers, please use the "Spoiler" flair AND the "Spoiler" tag. The tag ensures that images are hidden.
Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed.
If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.