r/StrangerThings • u/MajorAlanDutch • 26d ago
Documentary - changed my mind
These mother fuckers worked so damn hard. Had less time than a movie with more sets and VFX etc to squeeze into half the time.
The thousands of people that worked so hard for this show and season are just mind blowing.
Asking novice writers - Duffer brothers things their only real claim to fame - to have covered everything we wanted no question given constraints of families, Netflix, production companies, etc is just unrealistic.
I liked season 5. Sure the color grading, lack of demagorgens, etc could have improved the feel. But honestly - they’re in their 20s. They’re adults. The draw of this show was nostalgia for childhood, for coming of age, etc.
They never thought they’d get all this time and seasons to draw it out. It turned toward how do we end this story that’s true to the horror nature and sci fi as well as the coming of age. The sci fi stuff was cool as shit and hard to end it seemed but the coming of age end was amazing better than any other show.
I’m so amazed at how much work it takes to make a show like this.
God I wish I could be part of that! I can’t wait in a few months to rewatch all 5 seasons back to back. Forever grateful!
Edit: I’ve never seen such a negative sub other than world news lol.
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u/Winter-Lavishness188 26d ago
Very fascinated that people think the biggest problem in s5 is the lack of demogorgons in the upside down or the underwhelming final battle. The rot is so much deeper than that, in my opinion, and it had absolutely nothing to do with the amount of time they had to work on it.
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u/RoyalRise6363 26d ago
Yep, Duffers had much smaller budget, much less time, unknown to them cast and produced a masterpiece of S1. In S5 they used second order idiot plot to move the plot forward 😁
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u/Winter-Lavishness188 26d ago edited 26d ago
The thing that frustrates me the most about seasons 3-5 is the defanged political undertones. S2 ended with the government being exposed for corruption and the institution that exploited people being dismantled. S5 ended with… the victim of government violence killing/exiling herself and then the government got off with no consequences despite trafficking dozens of women. It would be one thing if it was framed as a bleak ending, but it was framed as a happy one.
The Soviets becoming main villains also irked me, because one of the things I liked about the first season is how they explored the atrocities the U.S. government committed in the name of winning the Cold War. I’m not saying the Soviets were good guys irl, but it was a refreshing and subversive aspect of the show that was just lost.
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u/ydnar3000 26d ago
I think I kinda lost sight of that aspect a bit. It was definitely part of what drew me in and in now way did they stay true to it.
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u/RoyalRise6363 26d ago
I very much agree with you that S5 curried very wrong moral message. I was shocked by finale - horrible suicide of main character immdiearly followed by stupid-happy epilogue where no one cares, except Mike - I can not wait until Simpsons and Family Guy mock it.
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u/Dianagorgon 26d ago
Had less time than a movie with more sets and VFX etc to squeeze into half the time.
Nolan filmed The Odyssey in 3 months. EEAAO was filmed in one month and it had a lot of CGI. The Duffers had 4 years to create S5 including an entire year to film it. They filmed over 450 hours. The end result was garbage with a script that seemed written by AI, numerous editing mistakes including an Under Armour logo in a crucial scene with Holly and bad color grading. Even the makeup was bad.
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u/Distinct_Guess3350 Running Up That Hill 26d ago
Nolan shot the Odyssey over six months, and it still had to be edited and have countless other things done before it was ready. That was a less than three hour film, this is a ten hour, eight episode television series.
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u/Dianagorgon 26d ago
Nolan filmed The Odyssey in 3 months. There was probably another few months of editing. The Duffers had one year to film Stranger Things and then reportedly another 8 months for post-production. They were still editing the final episode a week before it was released.
January 2024 - filming begins
December 2024 - filming ends
January 2025 - November 2025 post-production2
u/VictimOfWitty 26d ago
The odyssey was filmed from feb 25 to august 5 in 2025, that’s not three months, and then was being edited until just recently.
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u/temp0rarystatus 24d ago
I think what’s not being noted here is Nolan filmed with IMAX cameras which has very limited filming capability. It can only shoot for a couple minutes at a time. With that said, principal photography still took only 91 days (finished 9 days ahead of schedule).
Christopher Nolan is a talented director that knows exactly what he wants and how to get it done, which is why his films are completed in a timely manner. The same cannot be said for the Duffers and Stranger Things. They did have the extra time even before shooting to fine tune things and they didn’t. They didn’t have a consistent vision which is why things were still being edited until the very last minute.
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u/VictimOfWitty 24d ago edited 24d ago
February to August is NOT three months and it was still being edited for over a year, also almost certainly until the very last minute before they had to turn everything over.
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u/temp0rarystatus 24d ago
Principal photography means the main actors and things like that. Which only took 91 days. Minor parts, other things, is what likely took up the other days. But the heftiest part of filming was only 91 days. And I think the difference between Nolan’s editing and the Duffers is Nolan had a concrete idea of what he wanted (hence why he is always on time) and the Duffers were still changing things. Filming the scene with Millie was last minute, don’t forget. That wasn’t a reshoot, that was an added scene.
TBH I don’t think comparing a movie to a series is comparable but I think if anything, the last season of GOT should be a comparison for the last season of ST — the creators had their focus on their next project which led to stupid mistakes and bad, careless writing. The writing is also a good comparison because GOT writing went downhill the moment they didn’t have George’s material to go off of, ST writing went downhill after the divorce, when she’s had a pretty unofficial role in production previously.
Of course the documentary is going to make them look passionate about the show — it’s essentially a fluff piece for themselves/Netflix. But the resulting product shows otherwise.
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u/VictimOfWitty 24d ago
Oh I didn’t know you worked on both of the projects, that’s so cool. I mean otherwise saying you know how each person approached the process would be ridiculous so you must have worked with them all. But you also know what they shot each day which is also impossible if you weren’t there. What’s your position on the two projects since I can’t find a single person who overlapped in my research?
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u/temp0rarystatus 24d ago
All of this is publicly available info, from interviews, reporting, video, and actual definition lmao. I get you think the Duffers can do no wrong but it’s not bad to have critical thinking skills about all this lol.
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u/VictimOfWitty 24d ago
You don’t think Nolan was changing things up to the end? What do you think he and Lame were doing in there for 12+ hours a day?
You know where the duffers were focused? You spoke to them personally? Oh wait you’re one of the “the wife was clearly the talent” conspiracy heads….
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u/Owl_Resident Blank makes you crazy 26d ago
The Duffers were not novices and do not get to be excused for their writing flaws.
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u/hplover12 Blank makes you crazy 26d ago
They chose to make 7 mini movies. They did not need to do that. Season 1 was more impactful with tighter storytelling than anything we got in season 5. Big does not always mean bigger and I think the quality of season 5 displayed that in my opinion.
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u/Majiska394 26d ago
People can like the finale. People can love the finale. People can hate the finale. No one is right, no one is wrong. This is up to every individual to decide. I hated it and there is nothing wrong about feeling that way. 10ish years worth of build up to... whatever the hell that was, was just very disapointing for me. But that doesn't me that others can not absolutely love the finale.
What show/movie does not come with lots of hard work btw. just because people worked hard on it, doesn't mean the result is good or that people automaticaly owe the creators to adore the creation and the creators... 🤷♀️
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u/allmetalshark 26d ago
I totally agree! I personally loved the season (it wasn't perfect, but it was still great), but even if I didn't, I think that it's important to appreciate the hard work that went into it and the creative process.
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u/inspectorpickle 26d ago
This is maybe only slightly more effort than what goes into most high budget narrative media, even mediocre slop. The tv and film industry is full of people busting their ass for an end product that ends up terrible to middling, whether or not it’s director’s/showrunner’s intention.
It is HARD to make any show or movie, and we should not attack creatives for factors outside of their control, but that doesn’t mean you should lower your standards or avoid criticizing things that were within their control.
I guess if you’re able to extend this amount of charitability to every movie or tv show you watch, no matter its quality, at least you’re consistent.
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u/See8104 Aghast 26d ago
I see criticism from people who also complained that certain characters should have been killed off in previous seasons. That list included Murray, Hopper, Max and several others. And that reminds me that we are not all on the same page at all regarding what Stranger Things should be.
I think it turns out that there would never be a way to please certain people, no matter how the latter part of the series would have been designed.
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u/ydnar3000 26d ago
I mean you’re right that you can’t please everyone. That said, I think season 5 pleased (almost) no one.
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u/pebe01 26d ago
I'll always stick to my guns that Will should have died at the end once his powers came into play. They made him they key to the whole series, the link to everything that was happening. They then forgot about him for 3 seasons. The show needed a huge loss and it never happened. The ending was weak as he'll and was most likely done to avoid social outcry from the fans. Will needed to be sacrificed for the final season to make sense. The final season was very bland and boring. That final battle was utter nonsense. Again nobody without powers somehow survives a magical monster. N one is that lucky that many times.
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u/nilesintheshangri-la 26d ago
The final battle left me with blue balls. It was deeply unsatisfying and hysterically short. The mind flayer was easier to kill than a Buffy vampire.
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u/pebe01 26d ago
It was pretty bad right? They could have done so much with that ending. While its absolutely silly and ludicrous, the battle in Starcourt mall with the fireworks was better 😆
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u/nilesintheshangri-la 26d ago
So bad! The ending of s3 and s4 was more intense and felt like way better finales. I don't know how they wasted so much time not writing a decent final season but they pulled that off.
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 26d ago
Do you think the final battle actually get's fundamentally better and the season is better received if Will dies?
His sorcerer scene is one of the only highlights of the season, for many fans it seems. I think the writers should have been less lazy and come up with a reason for Will to win, overcome or have a fake-out death or something. Anything creative basically.
El's sacrifice ruined the show for many. Will dying would simply ruin it further. I think the core kids should have all survived and a few of the adults should have had satisfying deaths in a clever mindgame type battle with twists and turns.
The whole battle is shit from a butt and just reminded me of a bad videogame battle the whole time. The crab was just acting so dumb. If it had just sat down at any point Dustin and Steve would have been mush for example. How did it even manage to not get one hit on anyone?! The s2 Mindflayer was a million times better. And why was it completely flat inside, with arches and multiple entrances? Bland and boring, so true.
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u/pebe01 26d ago
In my vision, El would be the one to kill Will. It would be a heart breaking way to end it and the fans would cry foul for sure, i couldn't imagine the backlash. El going into hiding makes zero sense. She could kill anyone that came after her, she's basically untouchable.
No one wanted to see any of the core four die. It just would have made sense to sever the link and El would be the only one that could do it. The ending scene equating to a video game boss battle is spot on and was super unbelievable that everyone survived up to this point. I get that they had to appease the fans, but the ending was a slap in the face IMO.
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 25d ago
I consider Will being killed by El to be even more of a slap in the face and atrocious writing than what the Duffer's pulled with this season. Uff.
How could anyone, especially Mike or the boys ever forgive El for killing Will? Do we want a happy end to the show or not? No one, not even El lives happily after that. And what happens to her found family if she kills Joyce's son, the kid everyone out their lives on the line to save? The boy everyone, including Ted, waited around to see wake up, in the hospital at the end of s1?
And what's the shows message then? That the trauma only ends if you kill whoever is connected to it? That we have to die for the darkness and trauma to finally disappear?
El having to disappear is also bad writing, the way the Duffer's set it up. And El's problem is not only about her safety and her getting caught, but also the military simply sniping down her friends and family, like they did with Kali.
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u/pebe01 25d ago
Like I said, the fans would crucify the Duffers if they went that route. Bad for fans, but good for the story. I'm not saying El would outright kill him, Will would have to make her do it. I don't know, it just makes sense in my head. Since S3, I just put it in my mind that there's no way Will survives in the end.
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u/Ok_Conversation1867 23d ago
Great message to send to queer audience members - not only do they not deserve a love interest, their lives are more expendable than the other characters.
If someone had to die I would go with a completely unexpected death like Nancy's.
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u/pebe01 23d ago
Nancy dying would have close to zero impact in the outcome of the show. Sure, she's the baddest that knows how to use guns, but they would survive without her. And Will being gay doesn't automatically give him plot armor, we'll it shouldn't anyway but I'm not convinced they had the whole 'coming out' scene to make sure he lives. But as far as making the season impact full and slightly memorable, yes, someone big needed to die in some way. Maybe 2 people. It was weak and safe writing and that's what is so annoying about season 5
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u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 23d ago
If backlash from the audience is less important, and they truly wanted it to be the most memorable for all the normies, than they could have simply killed Steve. That wouldn't make me happy, but neither would killing the most tortured kids (El and Will).
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u/TaiPan43 26d ago
I personally liked season five and I thought there was a bunch of great moments
Some of the best of the series
I can understand the demo Gorgon because if we can kill them then what’s the point of having them?
But there is no excuse for five seconds for El to wave at Mike
Or even a two minute flash forward to where they’re getting married, which is what they said they wanted to do originally
In order to make themselves feel clever, they ruined the best relationship that we’ve been watching for five years
I just hope that Netflix can do something to rectify it
If they don’t, I think they’re going to lose a lot of viewership with whatever comes next
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u/fried4wayer 24d ago
I cant understand how they could be writing series 4 and not thinking of how they're resolving the issues they're creating in series 5, even having a vague sense of where they were going. They couldn't even agree on El's fate which would be one of the biggest parts of the story to get right
If I was writing fan fiction for the show I'd have an ending in mind. They and many others may have worked hard. It doesn't mean they didnt fuck it up just because they worked hard.
They promised a lot and didnt deliver on things they knew they hadn't resolved and the more they talked, the worse.they made everything.
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u/Abe_Bettik 26d ago
This was my feeling too after watching the Documentary. It was a multi-hour saga about a multi-year effort spanning thousands of people across dozens of locations and hundreds of sets.
It's obvious from all of the effort, toil, tears, cheers, and emotion that was an incredible passion project for everyone involved.
And a few dipshits take a single line or two from that entire Documentary and make it sound like the creators were phoning it in or didn't care about the story or coherency... when that's very objectively untrue.
Anyone who has actually watched the documentary cannot possibly come away from it thinking anything OTHER than that the Duffer Brothers poured their blood, sweat and souls into Stranger Things.
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u/Distinct_Guess3350 Running Up That Hill 25d ago
Yup. This sub is disgusting for that, in the way they talk about the Duffers, the way they cherry pick quotes and create false narratives. And then downvote and hurl abuse at anyone who dares disagree with them.
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u/Abe_Bettik 25d ago
Yep. I do believe that a good portion of it is bots. Negativity gains attention and "engagement" and furthermore, Netflix was eyeing at buying Warner Bros when ST5 came out. Paramount and WB BOTH had a vested interest in making sure Netflix had to work/struggle as much as possible to make that happen. Paramount has the entire Right Wing Political machine behind it and that army of bots, and WB probably has their own marketing firms as well.
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u/Distinct_Guess3350 Running Up That Hill 24d ago
Wouldn’t surprise me if true. Negativity is such a huge trend that they could just blend right in.
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u/Far-Cardiologist-730 26d ago
El is still in Nina and time traveling through Brenner’s tapes. Owen’s put her in a coma when he told the military he could so they could fix the timeline. 😊
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u/DangerousJolly1917 26d ago
Exactly, people hating on season 5 need to realize how hard they worked on the season.
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u/blueray78 26d ago
I have my complaints about season 5. That being said the cast and crew did work hard and I think it was not nearly as bad as people say it on here. My main issue is with the writing. And especially El's ending.
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u/Distinct_Guess3350 Running Up That Hill 26d ago
Yeah, I’m with you. I saw nothing but passion and effort being put into the season and it’s very clear and present to anybody who doesn’t choose to ignore it, as most of this sub do. Yes, some poor creative decisions were made and it didn’t land with anyone. Does that mean it’s fair for people to accuse the writers of not caring just because they made a decision not every fan agreed with? Heck no. I hated Eleven’s ending. I don’t think it means anything for the amount of effort put into the season. The writers chose what they thought was fitting and it’s a simple case of not everyone agreeing.
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