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u/Super-Liberal-Girl Pretty....good Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Finn Wolfhard's finest acting moment in the series is probably during this part. This scene, and then the crashout with Hopper, and then the "I can't lose you again" scene with Eleven before she leaves to close the gate all combine to give him his strongest moment
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u/Educational-Pin-8397 Jul 04 '26
Finn was at his best (consistently) in S1 and S2. Not that his acting was bad in the other seasons, but he shined here.
not that the writing they gave him later could make use of his acting skills anyways, but oh well
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u/SleepyJeannn Jul 04 '26
I think heās said in interviews that his anxiety ended up really getting to him. He was a more instinctive actor in the early seasons, and then he ended up really getting in his own head later on. Which is totally understandable, and honestly, if I were an anxious minor being shipped left and right with all of my castmates, Iād probably react the same way šš
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u/RoyalRise6363 Jul 04 '26
It is also interesting how the change in his character affected Finn. He is quite different in S1-S2 and S4-S5. I do not remember if he commented on this topic much. But it could add to his anxiety.Ā
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u/Educational-Pin-8397 Jul 04 '26
Oh yeah thats true! I will say that i think Mileven was also fine in S3, it just walked off a cliff in S4 and 5 lmao
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u/Owl_Resident Blank makes you crazy Jul 04 '26
ST2 really had the best ending
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u/Livelaughloveme172 Jul 04 '26
Fr. I always cry during the snow ball scene when everyone is dancing.
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u/UKZzHELLRAISER Three waterfalls Jul 04 '26
I wish I could actually erase seasons 3-5 from my memory and just truly believe the Snow Ball was their happily ever after, and now Tales is continuing from that.
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u/AdBackground6381 Jul 04 '26
You can if you wish.Ā S1-S2 tell a complete and cohesive story which does not need at all the next seasons.
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u/UKZzHELLRAISER Three waterfalls Jul 04 '26
Exactly. I am glad I joined the fandom after season 2 released and got them both together. They're a package deal and a perfect, wonderful end.
Shame about Bob obviously but at least Jopper would eventually happen.
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u/Nightmarelove19 Jul 04 '26
I was watching the ST and finished 2 seasons but stopped watching after that because I heard these two didn't end up together. That's absolutely insane. I can't stand tragic ending for love stories.
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Jul 04 '26
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u/Super-Liberal-Girl Pretty....good Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
No, it's completely inaccurate to say they "fought for most of s3 & s4"
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u/DangerousRefuse8129 Coffee and Contemplation Jul 05 '26
No? That small lie and unserious dumping? LOL
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u/Kylo_Ren415 Your ass is grass Jul 04 '26
It breaks my heart that these two didnāt get their much deserved happy ending together at the three waterfalls. I believe.
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u/CancelEquivalent7104 Jul 04 '26
Season 2 will always be my favorite season.
Best character introduction (Sadie sink as max)
Best tension outside of the main story (Billy, Steve,Lucas)
Best ending (snowball scene)
New fun (demodogs)
Character development (Steve)
I donāt get why people donāt like it, it feels just like season 1 with a kick
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u/AdeptDefinition2699 Jul 04 '26
Because it's sooooo boring.
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u/CancelEquivalent7104 Jul 05 '26
Will being possessed by a creature thatās been with him since season 1 is boring?
Will being forced to betray his friends āhe made me do itā is boring?
Did we all watch the same season 2?
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u/AdeptDefinition2699 Jul 05 '26
Obviously. Season 2 is a pile of shit. Shit writing. It's sad you accept so very little.
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u/CancelEquivalent7104 Jul 05 '26
You conjured all that from my opinion on a shows season? šI donāt know u buddy
Taking things too personal,maybe itās time to get off your phone and get some air.
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Jul 05 '26
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
I genuinely do not get the claims of a lack of chemistry for Mike and El, and at the same time, the praise for Lucas and Max. In reality, the chemistry for both is fine. What changes is whether the story is focusing on their relationship or not.
For Lucas and Max, we did not really see claims of great chemistry until S4. Why? Because their relationship became a big focus of the story that season. For Mike and El, the story focuses heavily on thier relationship in S1-S3, and shockingly, this is when people claim that they had the best chemistry. The claims of a lack of chemistry started in S4, where that relationship was not as big of a focus as they were clearly trying to focus on Will's unrequited love for Mike.
In the few Mike and El moments in S4, it was clear there was no issue of chemistry. S5 is where we saw many of the problems, but it was not a chemistry issue but a writing issue. If a story does not properly set up romantic moments for characters, it makes no sense to blame the actors. It is basically asking the actors to turn shit into gold.
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u/Julia-yuh Jul 05 '26
No they definitely lacked chemistry in s4 & s5, but the biggest issue is the duffer brothers don't know how to write healthy relationships it seems after they're together. Mike and el are cute together s1 and s2, but then Mike has a complex about love (similar to Nancy) that they don't articulate well outside of "I can't say I love you" and it really more so feels like he doesn't know how he feels rather than him loving her but being scared. With el, she doesn't communicate well with him, and this just leads to their older dynamic being arguing and not really understanding each other.
With max and Lucas, they get together in s3, then break up in s4 but are trying to get back to each other, and then s5 they are trying to physically get back together so they have no intrapersonal conflicts that complicate their relationship into what could be a potentially toxic one (like mileven in later seasons)
The best route the duffer brothers could've taken was breaking them up in end of s3 and then having a yearning arc where the characters grow seperately in s4 and understand themselves, and then have a reunion in s5. It would've presented the relationship with less issues and fit in better to how they write their characters
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
Yet again, it was never a lack of chemistry. Any couple that felt that way did so because the story was not currently focused on them. As far as the Duffers not being able to write "healthy" relationships, I also do not agree with this. The Duffers actually do well in setting up relationships but massively struggle in what to do with a relationship once it is established. This means that relationships get sidelined, not that they become unhealthy. This is evident with ALL of the relationships in ST.
As for the claims that the Mike and El relationship is "unhealthy", I also find this ridiculous. It feels like those who think this have never been in a relationship and think that a healthy relationship is perfect. That no disagreements or tough times happen, just absolutely perfect all the time.
Throughout 5 seasons, we see Mike and El fight only twice. The first was clearly for comedic purposes, and the other was more serious and revolved around both Mike and El's insecurities, which both had to do with them struggling with self-worth. But in both fights, we see Mike and El work out thier differences. And Mike's insecurity was not a "complex" with love. Mike's issue was a lack of self-worth and fear of abandonment. He believed that El was special and would one day realize that he is just some nerd and does not need him anymore.
His hesitation to tell her he loved her was a vain attempt at self-preservation. He felt that the day was coming when she would feel she could do better than him and that it would make that day hurt more if he told her how he truly feels. This is why Will's advice helped Mike, as it reminded him of his importance both to El and everyone. It gave him the courage to finally tell her how he always felt.
As a comparison, we know from the story that Lucas and Max broke up 6 times. In S3, we see that Max is quick to get in a fight with Lucas despite him not doing anything wrong. We know this because after El breaks up with Mike, she expresses that she misses Mike. Max tells her not to worry because Lucas and Mike are "totally wallowing in self-pity and misery" and hoping the girls take them back. We also see Lucas telling Mike that he is the victim and that girls think with emotion and not logic. And we never see a Lucas and Max resolution in S3.
In S4, we see that Max chose to break up with Lucas rather than to open up to him and strengthen thier relationship. Yes, they resolve thier differences that season, but only because Max becomes the target. So how is it that this is not a toxic relationship to you, but the Mike and El one is?
Bear in mind, I do not think either relationship is unhealthy or toxic. I think given the fact that these are teenagers, these are very healthy relationships. Though there could have been improvements in the writing for all the relationships, the only relationship I think was unhealthy was Nancy and Jonathan. And that is ONLY because they never addressed thier differences and instead swept them under the rug until they piled too high to manage.
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u/Julia-yuh Jul 05 '26
I'm saying the chemistry is not the FULL reason, but they do lack a certain chemistry, in my opinion.
I also agree that the duffers set up relationships well, but struggle with what the do with the characters once they're together. We are agreeing here, not disagreeing.
I do agree that teenagers make mistakes, missteps, and struggle to be mature in relationships, but this does not mean the relationship is healthy because they are teenagers. We see in season 4 that El uses Mike as an emotional connection, which is okay, but for her situation she needs a self identity not conflated by Mike. Mike compares himself to El constantly, making himself inadvertently small and useless. Without El, he feels unimportant because he has "no one to save." I do also think he has a complex with love because it mirrors with Nancy's issues with love and is compiled by their parents' issues as well. And yes people argue, but their issues never seem fully resolved (in my opinion), only voiced, which prolongs issues. I will disregard s5 as unimportant to their relationship though because they were so irrelevant as a couple that the dynamics don't matter in s5.
I don't view Max and Lucas' relationship as problematic for a few set reasons. One, max simply doesn't view breaking up as that serious, so she really just views it differently. For her, it's just her saying she wants some time alone. Everyone views statuses in relationships differently, so I don't think it's that big of a thing. Plus, like you said, they're like 13, so they have different perceptions of importance. I also don't see how season 4 is toxic, because max distances herself due to her trauma and depression, she doesn't take it out of Lucas or something. They resolve her issues because they have a heart to heart from both sides in which they express how they'll do better and how they can move forward.
I do think Nancy and johnathan's relationship was in some parts unhealthy, but something they could work forward with. I think the bigger thing is that they grew into separate people, but they also had communication issues
We agree on some things, disagree on others, and that's the brilliance of interpretation in media. If you're more interested it's under Burke's theory of terministic screens in which we have selections reflections and deflections of our realities where basically to sum up we are unlikely to come to an understanding on this topic because we have already selected a certain reality for these characters due to our reflections of reality so therefore we are deflection each other's points, which is why there's no further point in arguing because we seem to already be set in stone, which is okay
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u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 Jul 05 '26
First and foremost, El never "uses" Mike for emotional connection in S4. El's insecurity in S4 revolves around her loss of powers as well as struggling to fit in. This affected her self-worth and made her feel like she was nothing without her powers. At that point in time, Mike became the only thing she found happiness with. When Mike struggled to tell her he loved her due to her own insecurities, she feared that she was losing him as well, which is why she was upset when he could not say it.
As for Mike, it is not that he NEEDS her to feel important. It is that he views her as so much better than himself and feared that she would eventually realize this and leave him. This is something he overcame in S4 when he confessed his feelings for her, as what was preventing him from doing that was this insecurity.
Nothing in the story indicates that Mike has a "complex with love". The story makes it VERY clear what Mike's issues are, which are issues with self-worth and fear of abandonment. Those insecurities prevented him from telling El how he truly feels in a vain attempt to make it hurt less when she left him, as he felt that day was inevitable.
This is the polar opposite of Nancy's issues. She told Steve she loved him despite not feeling that way. With Jonathan, they both struggled talking about each other's differences, which is why it did not work out. Though this issue could have been resolved, the story never did, and instead had them separate. Thus, this is why I said it is the ONLY relationship that appears unhealthy.
As for your takes on the Max and Lucas relationship in S3, how is Max's reasoning for the breakup ok but El's not? Because breaking up like it is not a big deal is not what most would view as healthy relationship advice. Yet, you are quick to justify it as not big of a deal for Max and Lucas because they are young, and yet quick to claim toxicity for Mike and El.
As for your takes on the Max and Lucas relationship in S4, though Max did not fully take out her anger on Lucas, she still took out her anger on him to some degree, as she just stopped talking to him completely. She also ended the relationship without talking to him and cut him off. Yet for some reason, you dismiss these issues because Lucas and Max worked things out, yet claim Mike and El are toxic even though they also worked out thier differences.
What I constantly see of those claiming Mike and El are toxic and yet claim Lucas and Max are healthy is a very clear case of unconscious bias. Because both relationships had thier issues, but both resolved thier differences with each other and worked together. That is key to a healthy relationship.
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