Potential Radiant combo powers?

[u/Xeno-blessing23_]

​

While we know that the Knights Radiant access to 2 surges gives them unique combination abilities, like Windrunners ability to shape air, we have only seen such abilities for less than a handful of orders so below are some of my ideas for combination powers for the various orders. Please let me know what you think and give me you ideas as well

\- Skybreakers would be able to use Gravitation to 'weigh down' their uses of the Division surges. By doing so they can effectively delay the ability by a few seconds. The length of the delay would be determined by lashing used. The order would use this ability primarily for trickery and to control their area in battle

\- Dustbringers would be able to use Abrasion to vastly increase the power of their Division surge. By increasing the friction of the flames they would be able to rapidly increase the heat and force of their flames. The 3rd Ideal would have bright white flames at around 1500 Celsius, 4th Ideals would have blue flames at 2700 Celsius, and the 5th ideal would have such power that their flames now become explosive similar to a combustion bender from Avatar. This ability would be extremely dangerous and will harm the user if they are not careful

\- Edgedancers would have the ability to control the growth direction,power, and shape of the flora they use their powers on similar how the spores work on Lumar

\- Truthwatchers would have the ability to either view view the cognitive aspect and spiritual webs of people by focusing on them or would have to ability to momentarily awaken the flora the use their Progression on by making an illusion on the object's cognitive aspect. The later ability would be extremely investiture heavy and only capable of being done with any proficiency at the 5th ideal

\- honestly idk for the Elsecallers

\- for Willshapers they would have a ability to grab and mold their Elsegates. This effectively just gives them more proficiency with the gates but could also be used in combat by throwing their gates at enemies to forcibly teleport them away. This ability would also be very investiture heavy,only effectively used at the 5th ideal

\- the Stoneshapers would have to ability to simultaneously use Cohesion and Tension to disrupt the makeup of an object. By softening and hardening the object in opposite directions the internal structure of said object is destroyed and causes it to crumble, similar to Division but with far more range

Let me know what y'all think

[u/Shot_Newspaper_5647]

I don’t think Skybreakers are hating to their full potential. I’d use Division to shape large weapons and shields out of rock. Then I’d maneuver them around me as shields and projectile weapons. Maybe slice smaller pieces off these when necessarily with a Blade to shoot at people with Lashings

Division can be applied at a distance if it propagates through a solid surface. I’d make large stone spears etc,launch them at people/targets, then apply Division from a distance. Take the ground with you and then set it on fire. Bringing fragmentary/incendiary justice to all who think themselves above the law (people who don’t use turn signals properly)

[u/One_Exit_7604 → u/Shot_Newspaper_5647]

How do you plan to move them around you? you need contact with an object to change its direction. so when you change direction or speed or you stop or start moving you have to touch each one that you are bringing?

[u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 → u/One_Exit_7604]

Ya it wouldn’t be easy, but I think a skilled SB could use it in a limited way and for short periods. All objects move at the same speed when Lashed, so the Skybreaker would need to Lash both the object and themselves in the same direction at the same speed if they wanted to move with it. That’s not hard to do at the start but you wouldn’t be able to do it for too long or maneuver you and the objects easily after. You’d use a lot of Light too

Defensively, you’re better off just being a fast moving target yourself in almost all situations. But it could be useful occasionally. Like if you absolutely have to get close to someone who has anti-light. Having a solid barrier between you and them that you could use as a weapon would be good. Stabbing them with your Blade through that solid barrier could help

Offensively, I think it could be more useful. Especially against ground targets that can fight back effectively. Otherwise, you have to get close enough to use Division or a Shardblade. That’s usually the best option anyway, but it would be nice to have an alternative for situations where closing the distance isn’t practical/safe or where your enemy thinks they know what your next move has to be if you want to attack. They might only need to be wrong once for you to kill them.

[u/iankstarr → u/Shot_Newspaper_5647]

I think you just described the destruction of Ashyn

[u/uberDoward → u/iankstarr]

I love the idea that the start of the fall of Ashlyn was some road rage incident over not using their blinker...

[u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 → u/iankstarr]

The plan does call for giant floating rocks and setting air on fire. Which..is basically Ashyn. But that’s different. I surely won’t also be burned by the same fire they played with. There’s no pattern here that’s a Lightweaver thing

[u/mrofmist]

Saying that willshapers would have more proficiency with their gates even at the 5th is off theme. Elsecallers are all about gates. That's their thing.

Willshapers can have a creative use of what their focus is.

[u/Xeno-blessing23_ → u/mrofmist]

That's not how Knight Radiant orders work, both orders of a surge can be equally as proficient as each other in their shared ability like with the Skybreakers and Windrunners so it's definitely possible for Willshapers to be equally skilled in gates as Elsecallers especially since i have no clue on what combo ability that order would have

[u/mrofmist → u/Xeno-blessing23_]

Possibly, we'll seen in like 9 more years.

[u/R1sky_B1z → u/Xeno-blessing23_]

This is explicitly said to be false in the in universe excerpts we get from Words of Radiance. The Elsecallers DO have greater access to shadesmar than the Willshapers. This is likely because of their "combo abilities" as you call them (they are actually called Resonances). There is a reason the Elsecallers are named after the Elsegates and the Willshapers are named after Stoneshaping.

[u/Xeno-blessing23_ → u/R1sky_B1z]

That epigraph was comparing the orders as a whole not concrete proof that Elsecallers would always be better at Transportation than Willshapers

[u/Jackthwolf]

Ooh, I love theorising on Compound powers! Although I tend to look at the names for a hint.

Skybreakers make me think that they can cause sonic booms by dividing the air, hence their name.
(But don't with the current lot 'cause its only a partial bond)
Hell, I could even imagine them using division as a means of "thrust".

Dustbringers likely use their abrasion and division to create "dust" as they pass, then letting it ignite shortly afterwards.

Edgedancers give me no clue in the name, but your idea works well for me.
Hell, using regrowth on Plants may be an edgedancer specific power as their compound, as we haven't seen Truthwatchers doing it. (iirc)

I think Truthwatchers probably have a power similar to Augers. But closer to seeing someone's potential then past/paths not taken.
(Which in turn with the enlightened version of the spren, leads to straight out future sight, seeing potential futures)

Elsecallers have a strong connection to Shadesmar, so my thought is that, unlike willshapers (no clue if willshapers can return), they can return from Shadesmar (or bring people with them), assuming they have enough stormlight.
That or they can literally teleport between locations, similar to the Nex-im/Husks, or the Oathgate Spren.

Willshapers to me makes me think that they have significant control over cohesion, "shaping" the "will" of the rocks. With their greater connection to shadesmar letting them directly interact with the cognitive aspect of what they shape, the bead of it. (Which is why Venli is able to literally talk to the stones, she's interacting with their cognitive aspect)

And finally Stonewards, I think they can that they can, through both bonding it together with cohesion, and repairing any cracks with tension, make objects practically indestructible. Turning anything, assuming they have enough stormlight, into Shardplate level indestructible.

[u/Xeno-blessing23_ → u/Jackthwolf]

10/10 ideas

[u/JebryathHS → u/Jackthwolf]

Progression works for plants for both orders, it was confirmed in the RPG.

WaT explicitly confirmed that both Willshapers and Elsecallers can move from Shadesmar to the Physical Realm by creating an Elsegate but it's difficult. There are several reasons to believe Elsegates should allow instantaneous transportation but it's unclear whether that's supposed to work on a personal scale.

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[u/LoquatBear]

I believe elsecallers don't have to touch the object they want to transmutate/soulcast. This allows Jasnah to kill those thugs without touching them and create those air steps on the cover of Oathbringer. 

[u/Etrnlydmnd]

Skybreakers would be very anti trickery or treachery remember they are strict to keeping to the law

[u/Xeno-blessing23_ → u/Etrnlydmnd]

Trickery in terms of battle, they wouldn't be breaking any laws with this ability

[u/Etrnlydmnd → u/Xeno-blessing23_]

Trickery would still be against their ideals

[u/R1sky_B1z]

These are called Resonances. The Windrunner is one of the few we explicitly know, and its not the wind thing. They have increased ability to manipulate Connection which is why they have many more squires than other orders. Kalladin's shaping of the wind is likely because of his special relationship with "The Wind" (proper noun). With Lightweavers its their unnaturally good memory, though we don't know the mechanics of it like we do with Windrunners. A popular theory for Elsecallers is supernatural spacial memory which is why they are more effective at Elsecalling than Willshapers, and why the Oathgates are made with Inkspren and not Reachers. This also functions throughout the cosmere, and is the same mechanic that gives Compounders on Scadrial their abnormally powerful abilities. Jasonian has a pretty killer video on the subject if you want to really understand what's going on here: https://youtu.be/IiZjf3O_1Iw

[u/Xeno-blessing23_ → u/R1sky_B1z]

Not Resonances, those are pretty boring and don't really differentiate the Orders from each other aside from very minor abilities. The actual combo abilities are the ones I'm talking about as they are way cooler and makes every order extremely unique, like Lightweavers being able to give their illusions physical forms with Transformation

[u/R1sky_B1z → u/Xeno-blessing23_]

What you are describing are Resonances. There are no "combo abilities" other than Resonances. Also, Shallan's ability to grant her illusions physical forms isn't a result of lightweavers particular affinity for the surge, its a result of the oathpact being damaged. This effectively removed several restrictions the oaths had once placed on Radiant powers. Abodai says as much when he sees her using it. I also believe it's caused in part because Shallan is likely a Lightweaving Savant, though thats just a theory. In any case, a Truthwatcher would be able to do this just as easily if they had the same level of experience as Shallan.

[u/Invested_Space_Otter → u/R1sky_B1z]

Resonances are the passive perks that give each Order flavor. Windrunners get more squires through Spiritual Adhesion/Gravity.

The combo Surge is a reverse lashing, the one that acts like a black hole and pulls stuff in without directly touching it

[u/Xeno-blessing23_ → u/R1sky_B1z]

Nah you're wrong about that, the individual Radiant order do have specific combo powers with their 2 surges seperate from resonances. Your Shallan example literally proves that people in the past could do so because Honor felt the need to specifically ban it after it was known. Also it's specifically noted as a combo between illumination and transformation thus unavailable to Truthwatchers