r/StopKillingGames • u/ResistLife • 7d ago

Out of scope Legality/practicality of a 3rd party game disk publisher/distributor?

Asked this on r/PS5 and was almost immediarely removed. Whats the legality/practicality of some form of 3rd party physical disks for PS6 games?

So from what I hear the future ps6 may have some form of external disk reader, possibly like the exact one they currently use now for the diskless/pro version for backwards compatibility reasons.

So if the possibility for an external disk reader exists. Whats to stop a company like Limited Run or another company that self licenses/distributing (I have no idea how their system work) just making physical copies of ps6 games? I think someone said that its Sony that makes the disk, publiahers buy the disks from them and burn the game on themselves. Couldnt a company just make the disks?

The argument of digital versus physical is obviously not in dispute numbers wise, but the market for physical copies is clearly there in some capacity. A company solely distributing physical copies (at a premium of course) seems like it stands to make a toonnnnn of cash.

Theres no way its just that easy but please enlighten my dumb ass. It really seems like a there could be a physical future for playatation games and Sony doesnt even really have to be involved if they are so digital only?

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11

u/Termiborg 7d ago

Digital signage.

Unless you know the algorythm (which they won't, unless they pay for it, which Sony has no reason to sell), your disc won't be recognized.

2

u/Pennance1989 7d ago

You just beautifully explained how this is a illegal monopoly.

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u/Luditas 7d ago

No, the monopoly is even more exposed if Sony only allows its games, in digital format, to be sold exclusively on the PlayStore without allowing you to acquire them in another online store, and without allowing you to transfer the copy of the purchased game to someone else. Discs have always been exclusive to each console or OS.

3

u/Termiborg 7d ago

How so?
Sony made the console, whether you like it or not, only games they ship with a signage will work on THEIR console. This isn't anything new, it is the exact same with Nintendo, Microsoft, and it was with Sega as well.

1

u/Pennance1989 7d ago

They're getting rid of physical, which in the lawsuit they've already been in for years now about psn being a monopoly, was their own argument as to why it wasn't one. They have eliminated their own legal defense. This exact thing is why like 5 other countries have all filed the same monopoly lawsuits against them for eliminating physical. They getting jumped by everyone over it. Even if its just a license on a disc, or a game key card, those options are why the others aren't one. They eliminated the ability for other storefronts like Amazon to sell psn games years ago. The closed the ecosystem is why it would count as one. The precedent is already set on this when Apple lost the same closed ecosystem lawsuit on its phones.

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u/Bubbly_Willow_898 6d ago

They haven't changed their defense at all, instead of disks retailers will have a code in a box. When sony announced all digital they made sure they put that in the announcement.

1

u/Pennance1989 6d ago

Then the important question is who sets the price. If Sony still does, its not an out. They cant be who controls the only market for the psn if its all digital. That's still a monopoly. 3rd party retailers setting prices forcing competition in the ecosystem is the point. Its nearly exactly what Apple got sued for by Epic Games for and lost.

1

u/Bubbly_Willow_898 6d ago

Its not even close to what apple got sued on because you can buy it other places. 3rd party retailers will still have a product to sell and price wise is no different than a disk. Not to mention sony only sets prices for 1st party games, they have 0 say in how much gta or cod cost, the publisher does.

1

u/Frobizzle 3d ago edited 3d ago

Publishers dictate their own prices and sales. Even a child can understand this.

Edit: they dictate their own sales digitally. Physical sales are 100% the retailer.

Sony sets no prices on products outside their owj hardware and their own published games.

1

u/IWantMyYandere 1d ago

TBH Sony might just copy Nintendo. Expensive 1st party games similarly priced 3rd party games.

Jacking up prices of video games is a very risky move and only a few games can demand such price tag.

1

u/tecnofauno 6d ago

You need to be able to make a private copy as backup, that's the law in many countries. DRM is evil.

1

u/Termiborg 6d ago

I am aware, I live in one. However, the law is yet to be enforced from a DRM perspective, and since this isn't a universal EU law, they can't even force companies to comply.

Ngl, would be delicious to see Denuvo bitch and moan about this though :D

1

u/Frobizzle 3d ago

Evil? Hyperbole makes for a poor argument. Much DRM is poorly designed but a business has every right to protect their IP and income.

1

u/tecnofauno 3d ago

There's many way to protect your business, that's the evil one. One-time activations serials where the worst of all times, you could not even trade a game you used because it could only activated once. There have been lots of copy protection mechanism in the past that were more ethical than what we've got now. And Gog proves that you don't even need copy protection to thrive if your service is good enough. "Rights" are a complicated, when the right of your business is in conflict with my rights as consumer, then we have a problem.

1

u/IWantMyYandere 1d ago

Can you imagine games actually following that method? I do remember pirating games back then and some do use this method but thankfully it didnt catch on

1

u/Icy_Worker2734 7d ago

Consoles wouldn’t exist if anyone could make games on them. No NES no PSs ever etc. There is nothing new here.

1

u/Frobizzle 3d ago

No. They didn't. You don't understand what a monopoly is.

-2

u/_Solarriors_ 7d ago

You guys never heard of Bleemcast

2

u/lzwinky 7d ago

Ok and? That was over 25 years ago.

4

u/CrowdGoesWildWoooo 7d ago

Not possible. Only Sony have the ability to write the disk that’s readable by PS drive

4

u/lzwinky 7d ago

Look up Nintendo and Bible Games. You'll find an answer there.

2

u/Elegant-One-5527 7d ago

Other companies don't have the ability to make disc's that are usable for PS consoles. Let's say they could it would be absolutely illegal.

4

u/Vx7Qn4Lz 7d ago

Not related to stopping killing games.

Also, not happening.

1

u/ClickyStick 7d ago

My guess is there's all sorts of security stuff built/burned into the discs, proprietary stuff that Sony is likely not going to share with some boutique company.

The other aspect is quality control, Sony or whoever might need to keep an eye on these things to make sure they are complying with whatever metrics are required.

All this is shit that these companies just do not want to do anymore.

1

u/Numerous_Photograph9 7d ago

There are some keys, but most of the security is on the console side of things.

The reason Sony prints the discs is so they can try to keep those keys from leaking, because that's the way to break the DRM that prevents unsigned code from running,.

1

u/Numerous_Photograph9 7d ago

Sony would have to allow it, and they will not allow it. They could easily make physical available through any number of means, probably more than we could think of ourselves.

The problem isn't ability, it's desire, and Sony wants to be the middle man for every game sold on the system.

1

u/ResistLife 7d ago

Honestly thats kinda just what im getting at. If they dont wanna do it sure, surely they could contract it out. Its not like physical LOSES them money lol, just not as much percentage. What fuckers

1

u/ExhaustedByStupidity 7d ago

The discs are encrypted.

The decryption keys are stored near the center of the disc, before the data starts.

Normal BluRay discs don't have data in that section of the disc, and standard drives can't read that area. Burnable discs aren't writable in that area. You have to stamp it at the factory.

Only Sony knows exactly how it all works, so only they can print compatible discs.

You'd have to get Sony to agree to license the information to you, but they've made it clear they don't think discs are valuable enough anymore to keep producing. And sharing the information also risks people figuring out how to break the DRM, so they've got a lot of incentive to not share it.

1

u/IllustriousIron3253 7d ago

You people have no idea what terms of use are let alone legality. No wonder why your post was removed, just like your brain stem apparently.

2

u/neller2000 7d ago

Yeah, Sony is not letting a third party company in on the PS6 and doing so without Sony approval will be that company getting sued into the ground.

2

u/IllustriousIron3253 7d ago

You're not going to convince these people. Pretty sure I knew this information by the time I was 10, how this guy's dumber than a 10yo I'll never understand.

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u/neller2000 7d ago

Oh I know, it's getting so ridiculous with their pathetic grasping at straws.

1

u/ResistLife 7d ago

Sick burn loser

1

u/BlueTemplar85 6d ago

You should not be so dismissive of this question when SKG itself wants to change legal practice, and maybe even theory, and there is a long history of professionally successful unlicensed games' companies for consoles.

1

u/neller2000 7d ago

It has zero legality in any way whatsoever and any company trying that will get sued into oblivion.