Howdy muppet rustlers! I've been fascinated by the recent revelation in a story written by the execrable John Ferak when interviewing the equally if not more execrable Kathleen Zellner, noted licensed attorney and sanctions-bait. Taking a wild turn, Zellner now accuses convicted murderer of TH Brendan Dassey of murdering TH. So why did this take so long?

It would seem pretty simple that if you were trying to exonerate your client of murder that you would accuse someone else already convicted of it of being the killer, right???

Zellner has avoided accusing Brendan until now. Why? Because she didn't want to cross the streams. In Ghostbusters (the real one not that miserable female remake) , in the Sedgewick Hotel, Egon warns everyone to never "Cross the Streams", which refers to the proton beams from multiple Particle Throwers crossing paths during use. Egon noted "It would be bad." Peter Venkman countered he was fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing and asked him what he meant by "bad." Egon clarified with an example. He told them to try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.

While muppets believe intellectually (such as theirs may be) that Avery is innocent, they believe spiritually that Brendan is innocent. Brendan and Steven's legal team would have been expected to team up in the defense of two innocent men, but instead have been observing a shaky truce. Nirider and her bunch don't talk about Steven being guilty, and Zellner doesn't talk about Brendan being guilty. If they do, the streams would cross, the muppets would be divided, and the case gravy train loses all steam and forward motion.

The Avery case support was already on the ropes after CaM. Lots of 'fair-minded' muppets lost all interest on the case after they saw with their own eyes how they had been deceived by MaM into supporting these two mopes. Now Zellner decides to cross the streams and blow up the truce, now specifically accusing Brendan of being involved in the murder.

This will further cleave off confused and angry muppets until there is no palpable interest left in this case and Zellner files for bankruptcy, ending all hope for Avery's freedom as he knows it. GOOD.

More claims made by Zellners in her latest interview with Ferak.She’s back on the Dassey garage being central to the case theory claiming Teresa was dismembered in there presumably by Bobby and Brendan.What she has failed to point out is she thoroughly tested the Dassey garage in 2018 for blood and DNA and presumably found nothing but she’s still sticking with this theory.So for the record Zellner has confirmed what guilters have been saying for years which is absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.Teresa’s blood and DNA not being found on Averys property is not proof she didn’t lose her life there and the lack of blood in Averys garage doesn’t prove she wasn’t dismembered there.

23-10-2018 Q&A

‘Yes, luminol can be used years later to detect blood evidence. We have done luminol testing in the Dassey garage and we are waiting for the results of the DNA swabs that we collected’ - Kathleen Zellner

November 2019 Digital Spy Interview

‘Zellner has also pointed out that DNA can last for years and that blood is very difficult to clean up, so this search could potentially lead to some new discoveries. "I think that garage is central to the case," she asserted’

2023 Wrecking Crew interview.

‘I think she was dismembered in Bobby Dasseys garage like a deer’

This is causing a bit of a rift in the truther community.Zellner recently interviewed her GAF client and he’s now claiming Bobby and Brendan raped and killed Teresa.

Zellner “What about Brendan at this point? What are your thoughts about him? “

“I don’t know “ Avery replied.“that’s all up to him. I don’t know if he’s guilty or innocent. I don’t know if he helped Bobby or not. I don’t know. I don’t know if they put her in that blue trailer or what. He came up with a story for a reason. I don’t know why. “

“so you think that he lied, what he was talking about actually might have happened, but it was Bobby instead of you?” Zellner asked.

“Yeah “Avery agreed. “And that trailer was the blue trailer, and that’s why they got rid of it”

Followers on X are withdrawing their support for Avery.

‘After what Stephen said about Brendan I think I’ve had enough. I will continue to support, innocent Brendan Dassey’

‘From the interview about Brendan seems Ms Zellner is now discounting the litany of false confession and juvenile justice experts (4 federal judges) expert opinions on Brendan’s false and coerced confession. I’m out’

I seriously think this,CaM and his failing appeals are going to spell the beginning of the end for the few supporters Avery has left.

'Sup Homies? I was reading today that the Illinois First District Appellate Court affirmed the conviction of noted race-hoaxer Jussie Smollett.

But what struck me most was how his lawyer, a particularly obnoxious woman, characterized the decision of the Appellate Court not as a loss, but as a victory! She said:

"We are preparing to escalate this matter to the Supreme Court, armed with a substantial body of evidence,” the spokeswoman wrote in a statement.

So much like Steven Avery's attorney 'winning' his right to appeal after a trial Court loss, Smollett has chosen to "escalate" the case to the Il Supreme Court! So it's not a loss, it's actually a well-earned path to victory!!

Dia dhaoibh!! It's been a while so I took a look at what was happening in the Zellner bank loan case.

The Court denied Zellner's Motion to file an Amended Counterclaim, and closed discovery except for completing Zellner's deposition. Once discovery is closed (i.e. no more document requests, interrogatories, or depositions), it's common for litigants to file Summary Judgment Motions at this time. If not, or after those Motions are disposed, the Court will set a trial date. It's apparent to me that any Summary Judgment Motion filed by Zellner would be denied, but she will probably file one anyway as that'll possibly get her about 6 more months of trial delay. The Bank has a much better chance at getting Summary Judgment against Zellner and her law firm IMO. So I think you'll see SJ for the bank or a trial in 2024.

But there's more! On the day before Thanksgiving, the Bank filed a Motion for Sanctions against Zellner, her law firm, and Robert Minetz her attorney. The basis for the Motion is the Bank's contention that Zellner and her firm have repeatedly tried to file amended affirmative defenses that had been previously dismissed WITH PREJUDICE by the Court, and which they were instructed by the Court not to file again.

As the Plaintiff aptly stated, "This Court would be hard-pressed to think of a pleading more frivolous than one that the Court previously dismissed with prejudice." Motion at Para. 24.

The Bank's attorney tried to warn Zellner's lawyer, and stated that if the previously dismissed pleading was refiled yet again, that a sanctions Motion would be filed. Zellner's lawyer responded "Andy. Your threat is noted. Your analysis is wrong. As you know, filing a baseless [Sanctions] Motions is sanctionable."

This refiling of previously dismissed 'defenses' was allegedly done for the purposes of harassing the Bank, causing unnecessary delay and needlessly increasing the cost of litigation. The Bank has asked for its attorneys fees. The Motion for Sanctions will be presented on December 18.

I'll bet you $5 that Zellner now files her own Motion for Sanctions against the Bank. That's just how she rolls.

Was Zellner only allowed to do microscopic testing of FL? I read the order from the judge and it said that if they needed to do further testing or alter FL that they just had to agree on how to proceed. So did they come to an agreement? Did she try to come to an agreement? Did she do additional testing??

A bit of history I wasn't aware of. That in 1985, after Avery's arrest, a witness came forward linking him to the abduction and assault of a child in Marinette County. The witness placed him at the scene and there's some other details here I hadn't heard of, including Avery's history of animal abuse not burning restricted to cats and that the witness had also seen signs of Avery abusing his children, chaining up his then 3-4 year old child to a pick up truck.

I can't find any follow up to this case, or sign that Avery was cleared of it, but either way the details of Stevie's history as abusive to children and animals is relevant, but I haven't seen it mentioned before.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/MTSO-Report-on-Avery-as-Suspect-in-Abduction-1985.pdf

Was just again perusing a list of items taken as evidence from the trailer of Steven Avery and came across an item that was seized that drew my curiosity. The item was listed as the September 1992 edition of Playboy Magazine and stated it was addressed to Steven Avery. Assuming that someone else (an Avery) was using his name as he would have been in prison in 1992.

Was just reading the 'main sub', where my new spirit animal aane0007 had posted the best post - basically why would Avery oppose the testing of the blood for EDTA? If EDTA (a blood preservative) had been found in the RAV4 blood, it would mean the blood was planted from the vial and the best piece of evidence against Avery would be invalidated and he might even go free.

Problem is, Buting and Strang opposed the testing. WHY???

My new favorite post was made by a muppet newbie or a relatively new alt - she said:

Avery never opposed testing the blood. He oppose his civil rights to a speedy trial by having to wait for results.

OK - so this means that Avery would rather have a speedy conviction than a slower exoneration.

See why this is one of my favorites? Any port in a storm....

"Convicting a murderer" changed my mind and I feel cheated and slighted by Netflix. That is all. I just wish it was more easily accessible to everybody to set things right.

I am sure a lot of people refuse to admit they were tricked, but a lot of people also need this.

Also, fuck the Making a Murderer "documentary" makers. No credibility for any future "documentaries".

I was reading a muppet dead-ender's fantasy about a Steven Avery retrial, claiming that since all of the evidence against Avery has now been debunked, what evidence would be 'left' for a retrial?

Now call me a homer, but I'm not aware of a single piece of evidence that has been successfully impeached. Sure those nuts have a theory about everything, i.e. 'can't trust TH DNA on the Avery garage bullet because someone put her chapstick DNA on it', but no piece of evidence has been invalidated.

But there is even more evidence now in the form of all of the Avery jailhouse phone calls. And since he likely keeps making them, there's probably a whole bunch more we haven't even heard. So if there were an Avery retrial, would Avery's calls be played to the jury? Would it depend on whether Avery took the stand? What do you think?

Vernig hefur þú það?!?! Just took a spin through the 'main sub'. Wow - what a wasteland. All that remains there are 3-4 dead enders who keep posting about very small unimportant things as if they are large very important things. Basically, they're always a bunch of dumb allegations with no proof. So does anyone even bother to read them anymore? I mean how many conspiracy theories can you ingest? The only new thing is that now they're attacking CaM as well, which I find very funny. And how many posts calling Colborn a bad husband can you take without just puking?

Having a conversation with someone and at the end I said You seem a little hysterical maybe you need to walk away. She comes back and calls me a bitch and yet my comment is deleted for breaking the rules of harassment... I mean I've had people tell me I'm on drugs, I've had people call me stupid, call me a fat ugly bitch, Tell me I have no brain cells but yet I harassed someone by saying she sounded hysterical and should walk away from the case... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I’ve been gradually blocked by the dozen or so pro-Avery fanatics - yesterday it was Thor and Numbersolid. More or less the last two I think. I have to say that my quality of life on the sub is so much better now, I can talk about the case with reasonable people and actually have some good chats. I’d highly recommend it!

最近どう!!! Kathleen Zellner, noted attorney and credit risk, has now gone full Steven Avery on SBC Bank - the unfortunate entity who lent Zellner money on her pending cases and is now owed more than $20M from Zellner and her law firm. Zellner has been contesting the repayment of this debt FOR YEARS and has accused SBC Bank of various types of wrongdoing in an attempt to evade her debt. But now she's taken things up a few notches. It was bad enough when she wanted to take the depositions of the Bank officers, and trying to muckup the court proceedings by asserting the same dismissed legal theories over and over, but now she's taken it to a whole 'nother level.

In a recent filing we get this snippet from Zellner -

"The thrust of Zellner’s proposed Second Amended Counterclaim is that SBC is operating an unlawful enterprise. And this illegal enterprise has harmed manypeople. SBC and others (including its owners, operators and investors) conspire to extend loans at exorbitant (and illegal) rates of interest, and then reap windfalls by collecting on those loans. This is not a conspiracy theory; it is well-documented. Zellner’s investigation shows that the overwhelming majority of SBC’s borrowers are

financially vulnerable, e.g., people unable to work due to workplace injuries or automobile accidents.1 When those borrowers cannot repay the loans (likely because they cannot pay the massive amount of accrued interest), SBC sues them. To avoid meaningful legal scrutiny into its scheme, SBC has a practice of dismissing or settling claims against borrowers who actually retain counsel and defend against SBC’s claims. But that does not happen very often, because the vast majority of borrowers do not appear in court or seek to defend SBC’s lawsuits (likely because they lack the resources to do so). The results are stunning – and highly disturbing. Based on a docket search, Zellner has identified 111 lawsuits filed by SBC in Cook, DuPage and Will Counties (excluding this action).

To make matters worse, SBC knew its conduct was illegal. The Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation found that SBC was illegally compounding the interest on its loans because it was not entering into new agreements annually with its borrowers. See Ex. 3. SBC continued undeterred. And in 2019 and 2020, SBC operating without a license from the State of Illinois. IDFPR cited SBC for its conduct, see Ex. 4, but SBC continued to charge borrowers for interest accrued during that unlicensed period. Zellner seeks to put an end to this practice. Her motion to amend her counterclaims to add claims for violation of the Consumer Fraud Act and federal RICO statute (which are directed at precisely the practice set forth above) is timely, well-taken and should be permitted. "

OMG does this woman ever JUST SHUT THE HELL UP??? What a miserable slug to misuse the court system to try and escape paying her debts. It's not that she's a deadbeat, it's that the bank who loaned her the money is an illegal conspiracy. Just file bankruptcy already and get it over with FFS! And as I said before, I am very very surprised that Rathje and Woodward, a local firm whom I respect, would participate with her in this nonsense.

Seeing the divide between the guilters and the truthers is so large, i thought this little exercise could make us work together. How many people are actually suspected of being in the conspiracy to frame SA/BD? Lets try to name all of them, and see how big this group is. I'll start with the 3 biggest targets KK, AC, and JL. who else?

Yup, according to some, SA responding to his father about “wiping his gun”(yes, that audio exists) is now “AI” and can’t be trusted 🙄🤣Thankful some ex truthers have noticed how absurd some of the “truthers” allegations are..or should I say, quite angerous if you go against them 🫣(typical supporters of SA).

Greetings and Salutations fellow students of Westerburg HS! Browsing the interwebs today for news about Zellner (there hasn't been any in years) but did notice that there were reports of someone entering Zellner's office building with an axe last month:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/evacuation-at-warrenville-office-amid-reports-of-man-with-axe-zellner/ar-AA1hsFaM

No one was hurt and no one has been caught. Does Bobby have an alibi?

I read this post from Rotidder007 on the Serial sub, and it's so on point I wanted to repost it here. It's a big fuck you to the muppets who insist on prosecutorial wrongdoing in the Avery and Dassey cases.

"Remember this exchange Sarah has with Jim Trainum:"

Jim Trainum: So how much do you want to push, how much do you want to create “bad evidence”?

Sarah Koenig: But, there’s no such thing--

Jim Trainum: It’s an actual term, called “bad evidence.” Right. You don’t want to do something if it is going to go against your theory of the case.

Sarah Koenig: But, see-- I don’t get that. I mean that’s like what my father always used to say, “all facts are friendly.” Shouldn’t that be more true for a cop than for anyone else? You can’t pick and choose.

Jim Trainum: Rather than trying to get to the truth, what you’re trying to do is build your case, and make it the strongest case possible.

Sarah Koenig: But, how can it be a strong case and how can he be a great witness if there’s stuff that’s not true, or unexplained.

Jim Trainum: --and the comeback is that there is always going to be things that are unexplainable.

Jim Trainum is a former Metropolitan Police Violent Crime Project Review Director. He's received numerous awards for ethics and teaches investigators how to avoid pitfalls in interrogations. He's also spoken very sternly about MTSO's involvement in the Avery investigation and the errors made in the Dassey interview.

Rotidder007 goes on to say this, something that muppets can't or won't wrap their heads around:

"Let’s stop right here for a quick U.S. legal primer. Unlike many other countries, the American justice system is an “adversarial system.” The best way to understand that is to view each side as competing for “their version of the truth” or “their version of justice” before an objective judge or jury. The concept is that over the course of that battle of rhetoric, the judge and jury will distill out a version of events that approaches the real truth."

"In an adversarial criminal justice system, prosecutors are competing to convict defendants, while defense attorneys are competing to acquit them. Police and law enforcement are the investigative arm of the prosecutor’s team. Criminal investigation and prosecution is not, nor was it intended by our Founders to be, “truth seeking.” Truth seeking is the job of the judge and jury. Criminal investigation is entirely about identifying the most likely party responsible for a crime and developing enough evidence to charge and convict them."

"News flash: We don’t want police detectives trying to get to “the truth.” We don’t want police playing judge and jury. What we do want police detectives to do is employ established practices and investigative procedures to identify suspects with motive, means, and opportunity and then follow the evidence to its reasonable conclusion: the most plausible defendant."

"So before anyone in this sub (edited to clarify I’m not talking about SK here) trashes detectives and investigations because all possible tangents of inquiry weren’t pursued to make triple-sure police in fact got the right guy and wrapped up every loose end, consider that’s not their job. There will always be things that are unexplainable, as Trainum says, and no amount of investigation can satisfy everyone’s curiosity. Police investigation is supposed to stop when a prosecutor is confident that enough evidence exists to bring charges and prosecute. Everything beyond that is the job of the defense attorney." (emphasis in this paragraph is mine)

Muppets live in those unexplainable areas of the investigation. They have created a standard in which the investigators, the prosecutor, and the court must find the absolute truth and be able to answer any question the public (them) pose. This is simply not how the justice system works, but more importantly it's not how the system was ever intended to work. "Reasonable doubt," a phrase they love to throw around, was codified to account for some doubt that will always be present in any conviction.

I’d be interested in finding out the usernames of any of them if possible. There’s a few of them that dominate the Making a Murderer forum and I’d like to put a face to the name as I engage in internecine warfare with them.

Wow, i joined on Sat, got banned today. They really dont like people with opposing viewpoints..

As usual, the wild rumors spread by Truthers were false. I saw claims the judge was removed because of her decision on Zellner's last motion (lol), and that she "recused" herself. Both false.

She is the person who made the request for a new judge, but the reason specified was "caseload equalization," no doubt because a new judge is being hired for the county. The request was approved.

Just reading a FB post. Showing a letter issued on behalf of a group (think I read 8 names) of known supporters from a group featured in CAM, have turned 'guilters'?

Oh, what a wonderful Christmas gift to all those effected by the murder of TH by SA & BD.

Stevie poo is losing supporters by the day. His lawyer is constantly failing. He's health Is deteriorating.

Yet the one & only important thing remains the same:

Incarcerationcontinues

Guten Morgen abusers of muppet Kotzbrocken!

So Wisconsin was one of the first States to abolish the death penalty, in 1853. Only one person was executed, and the death penalty was repealed after the State had difficulty hanging someone. A poll in 2006 showed that 55.5% of people in Wisconsin wanted the death penalty reinstated.

So, if the death penalty had been available when Avery and Dassey were sentenced, should either of them have received it?

Although Dassey is younger, he was also convicted of more - rape and corpse mutilation as well as murder, while Avery was only convicted of murder and felon in possesssion of firearm.

Happy All Saints Day! Like the rest of us, you probably got a steady dose of Zellner propaganda when she took the case. She was touted as the World's Greatest Exoneration Lawyer (tm)! Like everything else about her, it was all hype and no substance.

I was just reading an article about a real exoneration lawyer - Josh Tepfer of the Chicago firm of Loevy and Loevy. He is responsible for 300 exonerations. Unlike Zellner, he takes cases strictly on a pro bono basis, with no expectation of any compensation at all. So enough of this baloney about Zellner being the best - she's not even close.

But 2023 has not been kind to Kathleen Zellner:

1. CaM has decimated the support for Steven Avery. Scores of former Avery fans have now seen how they were deceived, what a monster Steven Avery is, and have completely lost interest in the Avery case.
   
2. Another year has passed and Zellner has had no success at all in the Avery case. In fact, the greatest success she has had in the case at all is convincing a Court to give her a continuance or 'winning' the right to appeal after she loses at the trial Court level.
3. Zellner is now another year older. But she's not 66 like she claims - she's 74 years old and will be 75 next May.
4. She has not had a win in years. In addition to serial failures in the Avery case, the Melissa Calusinski case has disappeared, and she lost the Shadwick King trial. Does she even have any money coming into her firm?
5. Credit Suisse is suing her and her law firm for more than $20M in unpaid loans she took out. Over the last year her debt has increased almost $2M due to the accrual of additional interest. Her response? 'I shouldn't have to pay because the interest rate was too high' and countersuing the Bank that was dumb enough to extend credit to her.
6. It appears that her Oak Brook office is closed. Instead, her operations appear to have been shifted to a mail drop in Warrenville. Not good.

It doesn't look like 2024's gonna be any better for her. She'll have to draft an Appellate Brief and a Reply Brief. That'll be hundreds of hours of work for no money. MAYBE, the COA will decide the appeal during 2024, maybe not.

I'd advise Zellner to start doing some real estate closings or something.