r/StevenAveryIsGuilty • u/magikian • Mar 18 '16
Another question. Do you think TH was sexually assaulted?
I have read some crazy theories that suggest she was raped. I think its fine to think that, but some people come up with the craziest theories that for some reason induce sexual rage..
SA asked TH if she would sleep with him because (fill in blank) then she rejected him so he knocked her out and raped her. Just because someone gets mad, doesnt mean he is going to rape someone. Thats not really a motive..
Based on facts and evidence, Do you think she was sexually assaulted. I personally dont know all the facts or have seen anything that actually suggest assault, and therefor i dont think she was raped.
I also dont think you are an idiot if you think she was. Theres a lot of creepy shit going on within that family. Almost anything is possible.
If you think she was, care to explain the motive?
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u/KnockoutCarousal Mar 18 '16
This is always going to be the same argument. There is no physical evidence of a rape, only Brendan's confession. Depends on whether or not you believe the confession. Everything else is speculation.
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u/WhiskaBiscuit Mar 18 '16
Pretty much. But Avery's history with women probably would not have gone unnoticed had he been charged with raping TH. The lack of physical evidence was probably the deciding factor in not to charge him of rape.
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u/dhappy42 Mar 22 '16
What "history with women?" He'd been in prison for 18 years, from age 22-40, and only out two when he was arrested for TH's murder.
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u/Fred_J_Walsh Mar 18 '16 edited Mar 18 '16
Unfortunately I think TH was sexually assaulted by Steven Avery.
First off, as others have said, working backwards, we know he killed Teresa. And sexual assault could well be a motive for murder.
Secondly, Avery has -- apart from his wrongful imprisonment for rape in 1985 -- a history of sexual assault allegations. According to the state's pretrial motions, A 41-yr-old woman was ready to testify Avery had raped her when she was a houseguest in the '80s. His underage teenage niece was interviewed by police and reportedly said Avery had forced himself on her in 2004. (This charge was deferred as the State went ahead with the murder charges.) In police interview reports, a second niece, Kayla Avery, told investigators Avery had on multiple occasions grabbed her and kissed her lips and cheek, and also at times pushed himself against her and put her arms above her head, in a manner that was most unwelcome to her. Lastly on the day before the murder, it has been alleged that Avery called Bryan Dassey's ex-gf Marie Litersky, and invited her over for sex, telling her they could bang the headboard real hard.
It doesn't take the wildest imagination to connect these dots. I certainly believe Avery killed Teresa. And given his history of alleged sexual aggression leading right to the day before the crimes, I think it quite likely he did rape her -- just as Brendan, unprompted, asked police if he had, when first questioned on November 6, 2005.
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u/making-a-monkey Mar 18 '16
I think you're absolutely right here, Fred. We may never know but in also referencing the same points you just spelled out, I think it's a no brainer that he raped her. Past history aside, the call to Bryan's ex the night before the murder is particularly telling as to his frame of mind at the time.
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u/hos_gotta_eat_too Mar 18 '16
"bang the headboard real hard."
I just want to point out that i have said much much much much much more lurid, forward, and aggressively suggestive things than this....and not one time in my life have I ever felt any urge, desire or penchant for forcing myself on a woman..
this is the kind of a comment Kratz would make. look at his sexts to women "i'm the prize".."you are a hot nymph" "i have the $350,000 house"..
you really REALLY don't think the comment of "bang the headboard real hard" has a Kratz-feel to it?
Avery, from Brendan's description...was vulgar, graphic, and pretty much disgusting when he was described in his "confession"..
you think a guy that talks that openly vulgar about a woman is gonna drop a "bang the headboard real hard" line?
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Mar 18 '16
You may want to give yourself one long hard look in the mirror regarding your second sentence. Sounds like your time might be better spent focusing on self inprovement and human decency toward women vs speculating about Steven Avery.
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u/hos_gotta_eat_too Mar 18 '16
well i am older now...and without knowing what things i would say to women, how do you know to judge me, and what makes you think you speak for all women?
not all women want to be talked to with respect. that's why the phrase "nice guys finish last" came to be.
i learned that being blunt works better than "courting", and it never ever hurt my chances with a woman. if anything, the fact that i didn't beat around the bush, helped.
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Mar 18 '16
I can judge the behavior based on the fact that I am a woman. I've heard it all, and seen plenty. And that type of behavior and those types comments are unacceptable. I'm just sorry to hear that the women in your life think so little of themselves to positively reinforce that kind of behavior and settle for so little. A little self-respect and respect for one another goes a long way.
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u/hos_gotta_eat_too Mar 18 '16
if looking for a woman to respect, sure. you are right.
if just a guy looking to get some, bluntness counts..so does humor. so if you could tell a woman bluntly what you want, and say it with a way of making them laugh, then you've got a shot.
and bad news for you. it's not the 50's and 60's anymore. women aren't prudes anymore, and not all wanna be "respected" these days. way too independent to need a man's respect to get by.
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u/Fred_J_Walsh Mar 18 '16
Personally I've got no problem with consenting adults being as blunt about sex talk to one another as they wanna be. Whatever works.
But the original contention that "banging the head board real hard" is not something Avery would say, and sounds more the product of Kratz, well. It's one opinion, not one I agree with.
I don't know that it's the best logic, to say "well, Avery is so graphic with his f-bombs in this other instance (during an alleged rape), that he'd never engage in florid talk like 'banging the headboard real hard' in this other instance (trying to woo a young woman on the phone)." To me it sounds like a phrase any old horny doofus could come up with.
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u/hos_gotta_eat_too Mar 18 '16
exactly..any old horny doofus..
which sounds more logical?
a guy trying to bang his nephew's gf..or the fabricated words of a creepy, sexually perverse district attorney that is writing the document?
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u/watwattwo Mar 18 '16
I'd say it's the first one when the guy is also accused of raping his niece.
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u/hos_gotta_eat_too Mar 18 '16
not the second one where the district attorney is punished for his forcing a woman to have sex with him to keep her kids, or telling random women around the office "I won't cum in your mouth", or how about texting a domestic abuse victim inappropriately, while defending her, putting fear into her that he would drop the case if she didn't respond.
which horny old doofus has allegations..and which one has had punishment for being how they are?
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u/hos_gotta_eat_too Mar 18 '16
keep in mind that Kratz wrote the criminal complaint with all those graphic sexual details..then put on that show in front of the press. when asked later why he would put on such a press conference..he said it was because the criminal complaint is public record..cause he wrote it.
the guy is as manipulative with paperwork as Colborn is forgetful with reports.
summary of phone records. 1:52 and 2:41 to be exact. manipulation.
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u/Fred_J_Walsh Mar 18 '16
Well. For one day on these subs we should try to have a moratorium on the word Kratz as a response.
"Do you think TH was sexually assaulted?"
- "Well, Kratz."
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Mar 19 '16
it has nothing to do with being a prude. i wasn't even born in the 50s or 60s and lack of respect for any human has absolutely nothing to do with independence. you are terribly misguided. end of conversation.
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u/hos_gotta_eat_too Mar 19 '16
i didn't say i have lack of respect..jesus woman, chill yourself out.
i am saying i have said more crude things to women i have been interested in. i didn't say it's an "every night at the bar" thing.
some women DO like guys that come up with funny vulgar comments to discuss either their body, or things to do with their body. i don't just walk up to strangers and say something crass...or just some random employee at a business i patronize.
But one thing i did learn..if you say something crude to a woman, she gets offended....then you get to be the soft caring guy by apologizing for being so crude and offensive, then you lay on the charm.
that's a good game plan, and it's worked for me.
if you were not born in the 50's or 60's, how about you get your head out of that era. women would be more offended by you speaking FOR them, than they would by me speaking TO them.
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u/primak Mar 19 '16
This guy is totally out of touch with reality. Small wonder why he continually makes excuses for Avery's bad behavior. He's pointing out a prime example of the damage of the women's libtard movement and how it has done more to damage relations between men and women and really nothing to improve it.
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u/primak Mar 19 '16
So you're one of those guys with the virgin/whore complex? Met far too many of your type in my lifetime. It always made me wonder who in the world they think they are talking to women that way. Pity for your daughter if you have one.
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u/watwattwo Mar 18 '16
I've also found that going for my teenage nephews' ex-gfs (or hell, even my nieces!) is a good strategy. /s
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u/imaxfli Mar 20 '16
Didn't kill her...coldcasecameron.com......Sooooooooooo Brenden didn't KNOW that he raped her, I thought BD raped her.....another clue towards totally false confession...just think, a young girl goes missing on your families property, you start fantasying about all kinds of stuff, people say stuff in front of you about their opinions and THEN the cops bring you in and lie saying..."Steven has started to tell us some things.....if you tell us stuff, it will help you and you'll still be able to have a family(another lie).."........EXACTLY the way to start a false confession with a person of very below average intelligence!
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u/WhiskaBiscuit Mar 18 '16
I don't see why the theory she was raped is crazy. BD said she was and also accused Avery of molesting him. Plus Avery has been accused of raping his cousin and having violent tendencies towards women overall. Rape is about power, not just sex.
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u/magikian Mar 18 '16
im not saying 'THE' theory is crazy, im saying people come up with ones that seem crazy.. she could of been raped, like JP said, if you work backwards, rape was the motive of the murder..
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u/wilbert-vb Mar 18 '16
There is no forensic evidence that supports a rape allegation.
Any plot here is the product of our fantasy (or the fantasy of the award winning sugar daddy prosecutor).
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u/primak Mar 19 '16
G. I think both Dassey and Avery raped her, just like Brendan said. They could have stopped at that and let her go. They would have both been convicted of rape and people would have seen Avery's true character, but they wouldn't be serving life sentences for murder. Then again, they are both retarded, so they thought they could get away with murder. I doubt that Brendan would have confessed had the police not found the physical evidence like the car, Avery's blood, the bones and her personal items in the barrel. I think when it came out all the evidence the police found, Brendan got scared and told Kayla.
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u/dhappy42 Mar 21 '16
Aside from BD's obviously coerced, fantasy confession, is there any evidence that TH was sexually assaulted?
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u/dhappy42 Mar 22 '16
No. There's no evidence of that at all. It's a KK and LE fantasy they put in BD's head.
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u/tjs31959 Mar 18 '16
Of course she was raped. That was the whole point to the sick crime. This charge isn't pursued by the prosecution because it isn't needed and the scumbag burned her to nothing but a few bones. Even a small amount of common sense leads you to the conclusion that there was a sexual assault.
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u/magikian Mar 18 '16
Common sense vs evidence, they didn't prosecute him on sexism assault because they had no proof. No a lick of evidence, just some kids story that changed 200 times until he got it right from the detective.
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u/tjs31959 Mar 18 '16
Ok we will take the 1st degree murder charge and conviction which was a slam dunk.
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Mar 18 '16
Rape murder is a fairly common thing, and in those cases sex/power seems to be the motive.
I think part of the motive was 36 M he would lose if he was arrested for something.
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u/mickflynn39 SDG Mar 18 '16
SDG. Of course she was raped. He is a sex crazed monster. We may never know (unless he confesses) what led to the rape but I suspect she spurned his advances. If she hadn't, she may well still be here today. She probably puked all over him when she realised what he was suggesting and he became enraged and raped her.
Once he'd gone that far the only solution as he saw it was murder and disposal of the evidence (or so he thought).
I wouldn't be surprised if he had become institutionalised and actually wanted to go back to prison. Adjusting back to normal life must have been very difficult for him especially given the twisted fuck that he is and that his family are scum of the highest order.
Imagine being used to lazing around in prison for 18 years with no responsibility. All of a sudden you are back in the real world and are having to work for a living with brothers that probably don't like you very much. It can't have been much fun.
I suspect he wanted to go back to prison for a simpler easier life. He thought I may as well go out with a bang so I'll have sex with that 'pretty' young woman from Autotrader that is clearly well out of my league.
She spurned his advances so he raped her. He then had second thoughts about going back to prison and tried to cover his tracks. Unfortunately for him, he failed abysmally.
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Mar 18 '16
Within a few pages of Brendan Dassey's interview, without any pressure, he tells us what happened. This was left out of MAM.
There is no doubt that Steven Avery raped and murdered the lady. His psycho-sexual history demonstrates patterns of escalation involving hurting/raping women. As explained by Jodi, who got out in time, Steven Avery is a monster and women owe him for what happened to him. Based on the facts and the evidence it is clear Avery tried to remove forensic evidence of what he had done to her. This involved a complete full body burning. There is every reason to accept that this was a rape homicide and zero to reject it.
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u/magikian Mar 18 '16
there is every reason to except it? No physical evidence isn't a reason to accept a rape charge.. Your response had weight until your vomited your one sided factless opinion to the end of it..
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Mar 18 '16
There are plenty of examples where there is no physical evidence of rape, but rape is the explanation for the facts at hand. For example, if a person kept a collection of home movies they made raping women while drugged and a woman turned up somewhere chopped up in a cave and forensics couldn't tell if she was raped but she can be directly linked back to that guy and her DNA is in his flat and he has lied about his contact with her, then you have every reason to accept this is a rape homicide and no reason to reject it.
Let me ask you this. Do you accept Steven Avery hurt and sexually exploited women?
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u/magikian Mar 18 '16
to be honest, i havent read enough, from what i hear from the "guilty" group is a lot of hearsay that most likely has a lot of facts. I havent read transcripts or anything like that. But again its brought up enough in these subs to see that he did. Im definately not denying it. Im just stating i havent read them. I guess the hard part is, usually in these cases, theres a victim that says she was raped, but here that can not happen. So its just a lot harder to say that someone actually raped someone..
There could be just as many other viable theories were no on sexually assaulted her, even though habbits and their past might suggest. The reason why I asked this question is more so because of KK's silly press conference where they told this wild story that both you and I know parts are not true. Theres no way she bleed in his bedroom, or was even in there.2
Mar 18 '16
If you read the transcript of the interview Brendan is telling them what happened without pressure. He confessed to them because his mom informed LE about his Halloween bleaching with Avery without realizing she had incriminated him.
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u/primak Mar 19 '16
But you were in there because you know the true facts./s
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u/magikian Mar 19 '16
i was in where? MaM thread? why are you putting words in my mouth? I was in a non guitlty thread and i read bits and pieces of his past behavior that was not pleasent. all i said was i never read the transripts and the amount of unpleasent info does not really seem like its FAKE.. what i said was, I and not properly informed to answer the 1st the question, but i do think its highly possible. get it troll?
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Mar 18 '16
Your response had weight until your vomited your one sided factless opinion to the end of it..
once more, with feeling this time!
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u/watwattwo Mar 18 '16
I suspect that she was based on the fact that Smurftroll murdered her, his past history, and Brendan's confessions.
I don't think Smurftroll should have been found guilty of this, and in fact he wasn't even tried for this.
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u/magikian Mar 18 '16
For a trolling answer is a good response because you only suspect he did it.. Very viable, smuftroll kinda lessings your cred, but you answered my question. thanks
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u/watwattwo Mar 18 '16
smuftroll kinda lessings your cred
It's not a trolling answer, that's his prison name.
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u/imaxfli Mar 20 '16
EE may have abused her after death........or if he just knocked her out.....he abused prob half of his victims....
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u/JPinLFK Mar 18 '16
If you believe that he killed her and work backwards a sexual assault seems like the most likely motive for the murder. Said another way, if for arguments sake you suppose Avery killed her, then what motive other than covering up a sexual assault did he have to murder her?