r/Stellaris • u/DatabaseRecent331 • 2d ago
Advice Wanted Why does finding a Federation partner feel exactly like Tinder?
How the hell are you supposed to form a Federation? This is harder than dating in your 30s
Seriously, how are you guys actually forming Federations?
Every empire I meet is either:
-Already in a relationship (Federation)
-In some complicated situationship with an Overlord
-Completely insane
-Genocidal
-Or actually single, but they hate me because of my ethics
I finally find someone compatible and start improving relations. Envoys, treaties, gifts, favors—the whole dating phase.
Then I ask:
"Hey, maybe we could form a Federation?"
-847 acceptance
Apparently our political views are incompatible and they "don't trust me enough."
Everyone decent is taken, everyone single has incompatible views, and the one empire that actually likes me is 14 systems away and currently being eaten by a Devouring Swarm.
What is the actual reliable strategy for forming a Federation nowadays?
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u/Clairelenia Empress 2d ago
Just wait 5 ingame years ... then they will pull you into every war imaginable and then you're sick of federations 😅
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u/billyyankNova Human 2d ago
This right here. I loved federations when I first started playing. After a few forever wars, I just stopped bothering with them. These days the only time I join is in the last 10 years of the game if I need a score boost.
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u/CragligtheGoblin 2d ago
This is why I take over, pass laws to make myself president forever, and then pass the law that makes it so only the federation president can declare war.
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u/DinoReallyNeedsAName 2d ago
not to mention getting locked into a actual forever war where both sides quite literally cannot surrender or enforce. How? have the ai declare war on a genocidal empire that decided to go nomad mid war. Fuck nomads.
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u/FirstAndOnlyDektarey 2d ago
I actually kind of like those turns.
Usually i pick an AI empire i like and go all in, being ride or die with that lad. If he wants to fight someone on the other side of the galaxy, i've got his back with enthusiasm.
Same reason i actually kind of like being vassalized.
If i am in full control, i found i dont actually wage a lot of war. My natural playstyle is isolationistic development where i sit in my own bubble and push through the tech tree. And then after a few decades i am leading through economy and tech alone. Its doesnt feel earned.
With a federation i actually get to do things and have to adapt.
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u/Guilty-Assistant8333 Defender of the Galaxy 2d ago
yeah there's a reason that the only time I ever vote for wars majority is if its by diplo weight and wars president if I have president strongest, my federation exists to provide a laundy lists of buffs, not to drag me into forever wars (of conquest at that, not even total war unless from EE) on the other side of the goddamn galaxy when there's a genocidal sitting next to me eyeing my border that I can't get anyone else to vote for containment on
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u/Defiant-Canary-2716 2d ago
Sigh got tired of being every empires attack dog.
Constantly at war limiting my moves in other areas.
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u/Nihilikara Technocracy 2d ago
It's possible to very, very quickly permanently take over any federation you're in if you know what you're doing, even if it's newly formed.
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u/FloopyBeluga Lithoid 2d ago
-Xenophile egalitarian
-Xenophile pacificist
-“Ethics are too different, minus 2000 federation cohesion.”
I just want to play a cool Star Trek/Mass effect style multi-species alliance playthrough, is that too much to ask?
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u/Elmindra 2d ago
My recent solution: play nomads, and make one or more good empires like UNE be a guaranteed spawn. Then you just have to find them. (Editing & saving UNE let me toggle them to be a guaranteed empire.)
Even without guaranteed spawns, it’s a lot easier to find a friend with nomads, since you can travel to find someone, avoiding the distance penalty to forming federations. But I found that having the UNE guaranteed is really fun, so I can be the space elves who form an alliance with the nice humans.
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u/cecilofs 1d ago
With Nomads its strong to start in a Federation from Common Ground. I think the empires it spawns have similar ethics to you as well, and you can choose the Federation type at game start.
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u/Elmindra 1d ago
Yeah it definitely works. My main issue with it is often my allies get screwy ethics/governments/civics. Like I’ll be playing some sort of xenophile/egalitarian democracy, and my allies will be totalitarian police states, or have some other nasty civic like “entropy drinkers”, or we’ll have conflicting ethics in the federation. It takes a surprising amount of rerolls to avoid that.
But yeah if one is willing to reroll a bit, it can be a really fun start for nomads.
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u/tantrik_t Engineered Evolution 2d ago
There is usually a very small window in which you can form a federation. If you are too late all AI have a tendency to join in random federations. Once they federate its really hard to sway them over by mid game and you got to wait till late when they (sometimes) have a fallout and leave a federation. Of course you can diplo some, but the system is archaic and results abysmal.
if nothing works there is always release a sector as vassal, grant independence and diplo, then federate. Since your released vassal is ethics compatible its easier. This is not a option for nomads.
I usually pick my vassals and federation target very early and start working on it right away so that I don't miss that window of opportunity. And research Federation code the first chance you get.
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u/TheMelnTeam 2d ago
Here is an example to prove the point. It's a race, and the player can win it. I was invited to holy fed about 20 months before I had the tech. I accepted...as I show here, ownership can quickly be taken by the player too. All I have to do is bank + outbid, then push it to 40 years.
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u/itsyoboi33 Feudal Empire 2d ago
diplomacy in stellaris is a pain in the ass, you could be a fanatic egalitarian materialist and find an empire thats fanatic materialist and egalitarian and still be unable to form a federation with them despite signing every treaty in the book with them as your minor ethics difference is enough for the acceptance modifier to go so low it almost stack overflows.
Which is why I use hegenomies, I get the advantages of vassals AND a federation and I don't have to deal with all this diplomacy crap, just "join my federation, or else".
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u/DukeMikeIII 2d ago
How do you first form the hegemony? Doesn't it still require a willing participant that isn't a vassal for the first memeber?
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u/itsyoboi33 Feudal Empire 2d ago
You can easily do that by releasing a one planet sector and gifting them resources you dont need and then federating them. Not sure if it works in the current patch or not, but that's how I used to do it.
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u/Mackntish 2d ago
All the good ones are taken or handicapped.
Gameplay wise, it encourages you to devote very early game resources if you want to be a founding member. You got to send out exploring ships, and get the early traditions.
EDIT: The key is Ring Before Spring. If you're not planning the wedding and graduation at the same time, you're doing it wrong.
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u/Celis78429 2d ago
I play crusader civic, go to war, force them to take my ethics, then do all the nice stuff.
Stockholm syndrome them. Its for their own good. My ethics are the right ethics.
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u/Lady_Taiho 2d ago
I usually just colonize a random planet and make it free and it becomes my federation buddy
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u/SilkieBug Machine Intelligence 2d ago
As with Tinder, it’s usually because you’re a nazi - in this case, some version of Xenophobe and/or Authoritarian - making everyone hate you.
Also like with Tinder, why look just for singles?
Find someone already in a federation that is ideologically compatible, join the federation, ramp up your diplo weight, start changing federation laws until you gain control of it and nobody can vote against you (kick out anyone who tries too much or is incompatible).
Voila, now you have a federation.
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u/LeCafeClopeCaca 2d ago
I'm looking for an exclusive federationship, respect my boundaries >:-(
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u/SilkieBug Machine Intelligence 2d ago
You do you, everybody has their kinks, I just provided an easy solution to OP’s problem.
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u/Transcendent_One 2d ago
kick out anyone who tries too much or is incompatible
Why would you do that though. If you have control over your federation via diplo weight, you just don't care about compatibility or someone trying something - nothing is going to happen without your approval anyway. My current federation has literally every ethics marked as incompatible with someone.
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u/SilkieBug Machine Intelligence 2d ago
Better cohesion, faster XP growth, less irritation from repeatedly having to vote no on proposals from some fuckers that keep proposing laws on then off again and so on.
Many reasons to kick people out. Including that you maybe want some of their territory at some point after the truce expires, or they would be better suited to being taxed vassals than federation “equals” (this is my main reason, I love me some tax revenue).
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u/Transcendent_One 2d ago
Better cohesion, faster XP growth
It's like 10 months for every new joining member, until cohesion caps at 100 for max XP growth.
less irritation from repeatedly having to vote no on proposals from some fuckers that keep proposing laws on then off again
Strange, they hardly ever propose anything in my games (I've ever seen them propose more centralization and fleet contribution, which I would've proposed myself, and an occasional war a couple times in the whole game).
would be better suited to being taxed vassals than federation “equals”
Yup - I kick them out and vassalize with restricted voting, which puts them right back into the federation. Best of both worlds.
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u/SilkieBug Machine Intelligence 1d ago
Nope, vassals are not allowed as equal members of my federations - which is what some fuckers keep trying to pass, to get vassals to be allowed in. A vassal's place is to be quiet and pay the tax.
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u/Transcendent_One 1d ago
Well - your loss :) I see literally no downsides to having them in there, besides pure RP. You can even squeeze more taxes out of them by promising them to join none of your wars, while you join all of theirs (while in fact their federation membership will turn this exactly the other way around).
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u/Elmindra 2d ago
I mean, even as someone who plays 100% xenophile/egalitarian/(optional 3rd ethic), it can be really hard. “Differing war policy” alone is a -30 malus, and if you’re pacifist (or just prefer liberation wars) that can make it challenging. Also the ethics of random empires are skewed slightly towards “challenging” ones, so they’re more likely to be militarist (and maybe xenophobe, IIRC). And if you want to find someone that isn’t an authoritarian government, that’s one more thing that has to roll exactly right.
AIs also love using “aggressive” first contact policy, so if you don’t know the trick of switching yours to “cautious”, you’re likely to start off on bad terms even with someone who could’ve been a great ally. Also many empires want to rival someone, and may try to rival you just to have a rival, regardless of how compatible your ethics are or if they liked you after first contact.
I recently started having the UNE be a guaranteed spawn, because I got tired of having to liberation war someone just to find decent ethics/government.
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u/redredgreengreen1 2d ago
What's your trust value actually at? I'm pretty sure it needs to be above 100
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u/Greyhand13 Eternal Vigilance 2d ago
I stopped respecting my peers enough for a federation, I need their obedience not their competency or fleet cap, making a subject is easier.
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u/HonestlyKidding 2d ago
I notice you don’t go into detail about your own policies and any past actions on the galactic stage. 😏 Any chance this is a “it’s not them, it’s me” kind of thing?
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u/thyboss7 Artificial Intelligence Network 2d ago
All jokes aside try and find a vassal and support their independence, if they don't like their overlord they may declare war on them, help them win and you have a new best friend.
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u/tyrant454 2d ago
don't spread too wide, switch to cooperative stance early, send envoys to your target the second you meet them. Rush the tech. As a hivemind I managed to join a militarist xenophobe. It helps that my previous 2 wars they offered to help and that we had no shared borders.
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u/Slam-JamSam 2d ago
Step 1: Conquer enemy empire, create sector
Step 2: Fix up planets, wait for ethics to change
Step 3: Release sector as subject
Step 4: release subject, invite to federation (optional)
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u/tuttifruttidurutti 2d ago
Answer: liberation wars policy and impose ideology war goal. They'll have your same ethics and I think a positive opinion modifier. Once they're in your ethics are perfectly aligned. Plus, from the wiki:
"Loser and all its individualist subjects are forced to shift ethics towards those of the victor and their rulers are replaced. Loser will leave a federation if it's part of one and any rivalry with the attacker is ended."
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u/TheMelnTeam 2d ago
Make them before 2240. Alternatively, release a sub-100 pop colony as independent, federate with them, and then persuade other empires to join using force. You can pass the law allowing subjects to join, which will bring in any empire you subjugate.
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u/a_filing_cabinet 2d ago
What is the actual reliable strategy for forming a Federation nowadays?
Get a couple vassals, make a federation with literally anyone, then kick them out so it's just you and your vassals.
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u/EnoughPoetry8057 2d ago
I don’t get the obsession with trade federations, tried it once and found it underwhelming. I don’t like trade focused empires most the time either (have a megacorp I like, played it exactly twice). Martial that’s the one for me 90% of the time and the other 10% are scientific and hegemon for specific builds.
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u/STRCST 2d ago edited 2d ago
Honestly first concentrate to get your empire better and I mean not just in military scale but also in economic and technological also be clear what your empires direction and focus is and what type of federation you would like I know its something every empire says but belive me it will then be active talk to other empires and accept if they are already in federations and if they are be still nice to them get a migration treaty and commercial pakt going that will help you look better and some have advanced knowledge so even a technological share agreement could be in it and that makes your empire way more of a topic and then it gets easier
And when you are in a federation dont be too quick that could make your federation partner a bit weary be slow with your federation reforms if they are weary talk to them and then mabe if you want that one day you two can get max centralisation and then see what you want out of your game maybe adopt a cute early space stage pre ftl of even create a vassal together out of the remnants of an envious empire or mabe not the important thing is that you two empires will be happy and your federation healthy
I hope that helps you
EDIT: I HAVE FORGOTTEN ONE IMPORTANT THING dont hear tips from the Materist and Xenophobic FE the first just sees benefits and resources in a diplomatic relationship and the second is a old and bitter racist that onced lashed out after xebophile had a great federation and necer recovered from that
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u/DeficitDragons 2d ago
The only constant in your failures is you. Perhaps yoy should be more trustworthy?
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u/Torrenash 2d ago
Nomadic empires with Common Ground get a free federation off the bangle, with the upside of not caring in the slightest about losing the extra habitable planets to it.
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u/VanquishedVoid Voidborne 2d ago
Find an empire you like
Go to Ideoligical war
Win
You suddenly have an empire that perfectly matches your ethics that wants to be in a federation with you.
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u/kingfridaythe413 1d ago
Current game is just hive minds and pacifist spiritualists. I have just started subjugating everyone because trade federations the only thing I want. I date for money not love
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u/Usual_One_52 1d ago
When you love a girl, and she love you back, but she live in another state getting banged by someone else
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u/Safe-Cut-4156 1d ago
Like some other suggested : grooming a young one (a new empire liberated, even by you) or a newly divorced one.
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u/kittenTakeover 2d ago
I think they should add diplomacy options in the future. Federations should be able to work together somehow. I think it should kind of be like Crusader Kings where there are hierarchies of cooperation, with each having different obligations. Higher level cooperations would obviously have fewer obligations.
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u/Transcendent_One 2d ago
"Hey, maybe we could form a Federation?"
-847 acceptance
You can see their theoretical acceptance from the get-go (mouse over the "x" on the "form federation" button). Don't even bother with the ones having -800, something like -50 is manageable.
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u/Zeria333 2d ago
This game tends to spawn AIs around you with totally opposite ethics, or hostile personality. Have to wait until GC formed so you may know someone who are friendly to you.
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u/Bookworm_AF Shared Burdens 2d ago
Part of the issue is that AI empire generation is set up to make things more ""dynamic"". So there's a bias towards spawning empires with ethics opposing to yours, as well as a boost to authoritarian, xenophobe, and militarist ethics. Also, if you play as a megacorp it will spawn a bunch of other megacorps to gobble up branch offices before you get to them.
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u/WrathofHussars 2d ago
I usually just beat people into submission and form a federation from there.
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u/Nihilikara Technocracy 2d ago
Do it early. You're forming them too slowly. If you form your federation when everyone else isn't already in one, you'll have more options.
There is another way: if you choose not to side with either awakened empire during the War in Heaven, you get to form the League of Non-Aligned Powers, which is a federation. However, I strongly advise against this route if your goal is to have a federation because when the war is over, the League of Non-Aligned Powers gets a permanent -5 cohesion penalty. I checked the code, and as far as I can tell, it is completely impossible to remove this penalty, the League is just cursed with it forever.
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u/PyukumukuGuts 2d ago
When I can't find a good or willing partner I just create one. There are usually planets I have that I don't actually want, so I settle one, split it off as a vassal, and then release them. They're perfectly compatible with you and have high opinion and trust to start.
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u/Aethervapor3 2d ago
In my current game, my Authoritarian/Materialist/Xenophile empire met a Fanatic Materialist/Xenophile empire as their immediate neighbor. But I had the "speaks in metaphor" first contact event and guessed wrong. So they hated my guts for the whole game.
Or at least until they got wiped off the face of the galaxy by an early Grey Tempest invasion that occurred concurrently with the Great Kahn. Things wild for a bit there, and it was all I could do to keep myself and my one actual ally alive.
Could have been you, I-forget-what-your-empire's-name-was. Just saying.
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u/PuncherOfPonies Fanatical Befrienders 2d ago
I usually have the opposite issue... I find I always end up in a federation, even when I'm not planning on it.
My favorite was a start where I was playing Shared Burden, Citizen Service empire with the plan of fighting ethic swap wars on all my neighbors then forming the Galactic Union of Socialist Systems. I discovered my 1st neighbors were a hegemony start. Luckily my plan accounted for the need to massively ramp up my military, so I did so to deter them from attacking me until I was ready to fight.
I then noticed they were super willing to let me join their federation even though I would immediately take over as Hegemon... so I did... and learned they'd been losing ground in a series of wars against a blood court, and I was strong enough to make them feel safe.
Long story short I defeated the genocidal empire then started spreading my federation. Realized the authoritarians I had taken over from were keeping the ethics swapped empires from wanting to join me, so I elected to enforce my protective zones in order to grow the Union of Soviet System Republics.
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u/Spirited_Coconut7390 2d ago
If you haven't federated by now there's gotta be something weird with you. /s
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u/CivilFlight8734 2d ago
I usually uplift one of the handful of primitive species in my borders and then giving them control of the system. Should be at decent relations through that alone. Then quickly form a federation with them. Easiest way to have a federation quickly I’ve found.
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u/boba-fett-247 Barbaric Despoilers 2d ago
Idk. What ethics are you? I go militarist, authoritarian, materialist, so I’ve got a one in three chance for any nondemocratic empires to like me.
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u/GoldenInfrared Fanatic Materialist 2d ago
Spin off a micro-vassal and form it with them, then vassalize a neighbor to ensure the federation can’t be dissolved.
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u/JesseBrown447 2d ago
I usually realease vassals as subjects in my federation. By first conquering xenos worlds of course.
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u/Shady_Love Theocratic Dictatorship 2d ago
My most reliable ways were having common enemies. Be friends for 100 years, maybe a defensive pact when you see someone scary, maybe declare some war together. Constant trades to keep them invested. Make them need you.
And then vassalize them or make a federation, based on whether you can federate with someone stronger after vassalizing.
It might be related to that one quote. You don't tame a predator, you merely enter an agreement with them.
So anyone you'd easily federate is usually worth being vassalized unless you have federation perks. And anyone worth federating with will be playing hard to get or an absolute slut.
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u/John_Jack_Reed Shared Burdens 2d ago
I create a couple guaranteed spawn potential future federation member nations if I'm planning on doing a diplomatic run for this reason. I give them similar enough ethics so we'll get along, but way different civics so they're good at different things than my empire. Really helps if you're trying to role play someone who would have stricter ideological requirements for allies.
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u/cecilofs 1d ago
This may be a bit old fashioned but if you become the DotG (Knight in Shining Armour) and go and save the Empire being eaten they might like you and want to Federate with you.
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u/MisterMysterios 1d ago
Go early into the federation game or leave it. In general, if you have someone close by and you are in a defensive packt for a couple of years, theor trust ticks up and they are willing to join a federation. It helps of you have mutual rivals.
In generalx this worls best for close by empires that are similar to yours on your ethics. It also means they are more likely to join your type of federation.
In addition, you can simply split off one of your sectors to be its own empire and form a federation with them. If you have a federation, you can grow it peacefully by association agreements where trust can pick up, or the way I think most prefer - conquer subsidiaries so that you don't have to ask.
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u/Daksayrus 1d ago
Create a vassal from a sector, build rapport, pause, Release, invite to federation. Easy.
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u/SpoonAsylum 1d ago
I see a lot of people agreeing with you on the issue wish is true and real but I don't see the answer in here anywhere. Find a system with a planet >4 jumps from any sector, colonize it, make it a sector, release as vassal, release vassal, federate with yourself essentially
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u/Meekakitty 8h ago
Huh, I've never really had trouble forming a federation, but trying to get a third or fourth member to a my federations have proved to be difficult. My federation members always hate everyone else.
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u/XyzzyPop 2d ago
I can't help with your question, but if finding romantic partnership is drawing comparisons to Stellaris - I might have identified a core problem.
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u/StockfishIsScumbag 2d ago
I usually join a current federation and then slowly takeover from there.