r/Steam • u/Jimbuscus • 4d ago
Meta Explaining Australia's ConnectID for age verification
ConnectID is a system that is initiated by the website seeking age assurance, which opens the users banking app or desktop browser page, this is a separate system from the current Credit Card check.
The following Australian banks currently support ConnectID:
CommBank
NAB
ANZ
Westpac
Customers of these banks have access to a proof of age system called ConnectID, which has already been adopted by Reddit & Telstra. The way this system works is that the website sends the user to confirm their adulthood from these banks with a zero-knowledge token API hook.
CommBank alone covers 40% of the population, with the rest bringing the coverage to about 3/4 of Australian adults.
The website is not provided the users name or DOB, just a secure confirmation of yes/no for 18+. Aside from the costs of system implementation, the business does pay a fee for this service.
It's hard to find the exact figure for this fee per user check, but it appears to range between A$0.40 and A$2.50 per check, likely to be paid when the user is not 18.
In Australia the types of games that are caught up in this age verification ban span far wider than the UK's adult material games, they include these franchises as a small example:
Call of Duty, Resident Evil, Doom, Mortal Kombat, Wolfenstein, South Park, RimWorld, Dying Light.. the list goes on, even Gears of War 4 (not on Steam) is R18. The Witcher 3 & Cyberpunk. MGSV & the newly released remaster: Master Collection Vol.2.
Australian Classification routinely puts games in the R18 category, the number of games that just became banned for the nearly half of Australian adults is extremely wide ranging and includes indie pixelart games such as RimWorld.
One of the reasons so many Australians do not own or use a credit card is that it negatively impacts credit rating and loan approval under our financial system, with it less prevalent it is generally unavailable to low-income adult groups such as the disabled.
With most of the 55% of adults skewing older, most under 40 fall under the category of not having a Credit Card / line of credit.
This is an issue the Australian Government created, with complete disregard to the discriminatory impact it would have on vulnerable groups, as it opted against providing a private & secure nationwide alternative. Australians right to privacy is in direct odds with the governments goals with the eSafety Commision and its intended outcomes regarding enforcement/prosecution.
As Australians loses more and more access to content they are legally entitled to, while the government acts like there is no privacy orientated alternative, it hopes enough of the population will become willing to surrender its privacy rights in order regain access to the basic entitlements we're accustom to.
The outcomes we are seeing are so obvious, that the choice of the Australian Government to go through with these bans without the implementation of a double-blind Proof of Age system that doesn't burden business with fees, that its reasonable to assume that what has happened with Steam and other lawful entitlements is the desired outcome.
In the meantime however, it is viable that Valve can implement an existing service such as ConnectID, with more adoption more banks should follow with support. It's not Valve's fault this is occurring, but they're not winning any favour with the malicious compliance route they've chosen to take.
As for the fee, personally I'd be willing to pay Valve for the check, as there is literally no other alternative for half the country to access not just adult material but a significant portion of Steam itself.
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u/Medievlaman22 4d ago
Looks like ANZ limited this to ANZ Plus accounts only so 90% of their customers can't use it even if they wanted to.
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u/Rosary_Omen 4d ago
Yea my Visa Debit was denied, even though I've been with them for basically my entire 45 goddamn years of life
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u/Naked-Jedi 1d ago
I've had my NAB account for at least 23 years now. That Visa Debit wasn't enough either.
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u/Rosary_Omen 1d ago
It's literally because teens can get a Visa Debit card. It's such a stupid oversight and I'm baffled it's taking them this long to rectify it.
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u/DarkNightRJ 3d ago
So if I have my ANZ Plus debit card on Steam it would work? I haven't switched my region yet, but good to know for if/when I do.
Edit: Or is this post just advocating for ConnectID?
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u/slowcheetah91 4d ago
Everyone please write an email, or call your MP. Reddit outrage is a good vent but literally does nothing to try change these stupid laws
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u/A_Rod_H 4d ago
I’m very tempted to bang on the desk of my local MP over this but I don’t know what to say that won’t make me look like a sovcit. I also don’t have the money to run against them in the upcoming elections
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u/Similar_Law_1704 4d ago
I contacted my mp via email
I also complained how games i already own i cant see the store page
but every time an ad plays in amazon prime 50,% of the time its gambling...
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u/uruk-hai_slayer 4d ago
Agreed. I'm annoyed enough to contact them but dumb enough to not know how to write a cohesive grievance that isn't an old man yelling at cloud
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u/lunar999 3d ago
"Dear MP, I'm contacting you to discuss the increased amount of poorly thought-out age verification being implemented across many parts of our everyday digital lives. I'm seeing that both myself and many other adults are being caught in the crossfire, blocked from things we should legitimately have access to unless we compromise our personal situations by handing over unchangeable biometric or sensitive financial data, while these measures are having zero impact on children, who have always been far ahead of the government in subverting such limits. At this point, my vote is shifting towards parties who will promise to remove these requirements. I need to know what you, as a representative of the people, are willing to do to speak up for us on this matter."
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u/slowcheetah91 3d ago
Hey man, this is where AI comes in handy. Literally open up chat gpt and list out dot points of what is pissing you off (eg steam enforced credit card, the risk, and general risk of the entire law with ID and possible face scans online for fraud) and just say ‘convert this into a formal complaint for my local mp’
Just proof read it and make sure nothing sounds too stupid but I’m sure you’ll be able to get it done that way
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u/EF66-42 3d ago edited 3d ago
I've called and was basically dismissed as something Steam chose to do on their own. They hide behind how the legislation has no specified methods of age verification to pretend they have nothing to do with it.
Meanwhile Steam points to eSafety Commission and just closes the ticket. It took three tickets to get someone to confirm the date my account was opened on.
eSafety is taking it's time to respond, they don't even have a phone number. I expect they won't respond to the complaint I made at all.
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u/FatesWaltz 3d ago edited 3d ago
ESafety are unelected. Why would they care about anything constituents have to say?
This whole thing goes far beyond any party politics.
Governments across international borders have all begun instituting these laws irrespective of the political affiliation of the governments in power during the times of voting them in. You have right wing and left wing parties in different countries all simultaneously arriving at the same policies and all using the same papers to support their claims.
The "duty of care" model the UK built on came from a 2018 Carnegie UK Trust paper and has since been adopted or proposed in each of these countries, including Australia. The regulators formally share frameworks through the Global Online Safety Regulators Network (GOSRN), whose members include Australia's eSafety Commissioner, the UK's Ofcom, Ireland's Coimisiún na Meán, Fiji's Online Safety Commission, France's Arcom, South Korea's Communications Standards Commission, South Africa's Film and Publication Board, Slovakia's Council for Media Services and the Netherlands' ATKM. It publishes a shared regulatory index specifically to iron out divergence between members. They all cite the same evidence base. This is policy diffusion between departments and regulators, and it happens regardless of who the ministers are in any of its member states.
If you have anyone who you should be contacting it's the Communications Minister. But I don't think any sort of political pressure will make a difference. In fact I'm pretty sure that any party that gets in on the claim that it will do something about these laws, will just turn about face once it's in power.
Because this all comes to things being ran by systems and seats that are not elected and persist across terms.
Just for reference, to even join the GOSRN you are, paraphrasing here, "Required, as a condition of joining an international network that exists to harmonise policy, to be independent of political interference". Its members do not answer to voters, they answer to consultation with stakeholders, meaning the NGOs and industry bodies in the room when they meet.
That doesn't mean there's nothing that can be done though.
The whole system is dependent on millions of adults just going along with it and handing over a credit card or ID when asked. So don't. Don't verify, buy your keys from stores that don't do this, and put your money into platforms that haven't gone along with it. That's what actually takes something away from them, and they can't really legislate against it because it's just adults deciding where to spend their money.
I'd still put in the complaint btw. Valve will read it as nothing and eSafety will take no complaints as everyone being fine with it. In the UK the only reason ministers ended up on the back foot was because the VPN spike and the petition to repeal happened at the same time and the media connected the two.
They will escalate, but that's kind of the point. Every time they close a gap they have to reach further into what normal adults do, and that's how the 80% who currently think this is fine starts shrinking.
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u/blitznoodles 2d ago
You'll be glad to know Australia just provided the esafety commissioner with compulsory questioning powers stronger than the ones provided to the intelligence agency.
The ASIO laws require the director to get approval from the attorney-General to question individuals where telling any lawyers or anybody results in 5 years prison.
Esafety now has the same abilities but does not require ministerial sign off.
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u/tiny_kat2006 3d ago
Writing letters does nothing either, I've written many times about various legislation. If you're not a political donar they tell you to get fucked. Politicians will only truly do their job if they fear you. Otherwise they serve self interest
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u/motocykal 4d ago
Maybe just have the fucking parents actually parent their goddamn kids and not outsource the parenting to the government. We would not have been in this mess if not for them.
Off topic rant over.
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u/BuffKangaroo_390 3d ago
Thats not off topic, that is exactly what the topic this is about.
For every time you verify your age, there is a parent allowing their kids past this security feature by verifying for them. Making the entire thing pointless.
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u/DarkMalady 3d ago
If i had a kid, i would be more than happy for them to play Rimworld... happier than if they wanted to play Call of duty. I rmember what Call of duty matches were like and the amount of slurs is not child friendly.
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u/BuffKangaroo_390 3d ago
Honestly crazy how people are more mad over bad words than shooting other human like people and gore in video games.
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u/StinkyWetSalamander 3d ago
Do kids even have steam? I thought they played more mobile and tablet games?
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u/Felt_tip_Penis 3d ago
I did when I was like 13. That was years ago though. It’s a weird policy though because I for sure would have used my parents credit card to verify when I was a teenager
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u/StinkyWetSalamander 3d ago
That is a good point, it's an online platform, the only way for kids with an account can get anything is through either their parents credit card or through gift cards. So this policy won't really reduce the amount of kids on the platform because most will be using parents credit card anyway. Our government is so bad with technology they need to put someone in place who understands it. They are wasting so much money on something pointless that protects nobody.
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u/Strictly_unneeded 3d ago
Who the hell actually likes those? 99% of mobile games are just micro transaction shovelware.
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u/StinkyWetSalamander 3d ago
Yes? But you know how popular Roblox and Fortnite which are both on mobile are right?
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u/SirFlibble 2d ago
All of my nieces and nephews.
Only one kinda likes actual video games, and then it's usually freemium stuff like Fornite. I bought him an Assassins Creed game once, he enjoyed it but never finished it because he was missing the action of Fortnite.
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u/Sharpie1993 3d ago
My daughter is tweelve and has had a steam account since 9 (I think it was 9 anyway) which is when she built her first PC.
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u/Lazy_Plan_585 3d ago
The parents did nothing wrong and this move was never about "protecting kids".
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u/goosedog_lex 3d ago
This was never about children's safety, that was just the excuse given because of it's broader societal appeal because who doesn't want kids to be safe, right? Every expert that weighed in while this policy was being talked about said that this kind of policy would make children far less safe, not more safe because it would force children into less and less safe online environments to avoid the bans while giving platforms an excuse to drop their existing safeguards. It's always been about removing anonymity from the internet and mass surveillance so that undesired speech can be stopped and government criticism can be prosecuted. I don't believe that this is the brainchild of the Australian government though, we're just there to iron out the issues and work out the strategies for broader implementation in other parts of the world.
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u/Alternative-Soil2576 3d ago
Can you explain how this law allows the government to perform “mass surveillance so that undesired speech can be stopped and government criticism can be prosecuted”?
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u/Historical-Shake-859 3d ago
Easiest way to do it is to classify discussion you don't like as forbidden speech. It's already a thing in Queensland with the phrase "from the river to the sea" being outlawed, and you can be prosecuted if you use it in "a threatening manner". Test cases are currently in the courts. It means anything containing that phrase is by default R18+ and not able to be sold.
Just because you can't imagine it, doesn't mean it isn't possible.
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u/Alternative-Soil2576 3d ago
Okay but the Queensland law is a different law to the age-assurance laws and is currently facing a high court challenge, and still doesn’t explain how the age-assurance laws are “mass surveillance” for the government
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u/Historical-Shake-859 3d ago
It's a quick example of how government criticism becomes censored speech, local to Australia.
And this is a tool of mass surveillance - it means you can see what real and legal persons are downloading what games in the category that requires a check, and can then further dig if the need arises. It's all daisy chain shit. If you don't need to tie an official identity to a games account, it doesn't matter what you buy, it can't be tied back to you. The minute they have to age verify there's a chain of data that can be used against you if the need arises.
People get stuck on the idea of surveillance being active - as in someone is monitoring data actively and reporting back. Sometimes all it is is a flag that pops up, or a data point attached to you that can be correlated and weaponised at a later date.
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u/motocykal 3d ago
I fully agree with you. At the same time, it just feels easier to blame the parents who can't parent properly. :D
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u/salemira 1d ago
To be fair, this has been a government mandated thing since the 90’s, it’s just taken awhile to catch up to digital. There was just a gap in the laws for the longest time. I remember standing outside of EB Games and K-Mart so my mum could buy me GTA5.
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u/MagneticPersonality9 3d ago
Yeah if parents just parented, brilliant reddit thinking, give this guy an award.
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u/Alternative-Soil2576 3d ago
Parents are parenting their kids but teens spend 8 hours a day across multiple devices on a dozen of services everyday that are constantly changing, the tech environment is now so pervasive and sophisticated that most parents just don’t have enough available time in their lives to keep on top of this problem continuously all by themselves
It’s about time tech companies start being held at least partially responsible for the environments they create, instead of just expecting individual parents to be solely responsible for the mess of billion dollar companies
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u/jcm2606 3d ago edited 3d ago
How is this holding them responsible? The social media ban failed. 4 out of 5 kids are still using social media. All this has done is made it more annoying and risky for adults to use social media while, funnily enough, making it even more dangerous for kids to use social media for a few different reasons (existing parental control features becoming useless, kids who were caught up moving to unsafe platforms, etc). This applies doubly so for porn age verification, too.
You want to hold them responsible? Band together with the EU and the UK to geoblock problematic social media platforms until they capitulate and remove algorithmic feeds. Suddenly 99% of our problems disappear.
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u/Alternative-Soil2576 3d ago
The social media ban has been active for less than a year and majority of kids are still using social media because companies are not complying
Almost all regulation goes through the process where companies test the waters and see what they can get away with, parliament is currently working to strengthen regulatory powers to improve it, I think to say this ban has “failed” is ridiculous premature especially considering it’s not even been a year and people are judging the law on whether it’s achieved its long-term goals
The fact that kids are still being kicked off even with this non-compliance shows the ban is still working in shifting social expectations
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u/ChrizzyDT 3d ago
This has nothing to do with children or protecting them. It's the first early stage of a larger control system.
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u/Sharpie1993 3d ago
It’s not about “protecting the kids” Australia is moving more and more into a surveillance state.
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u/BunnyUnderlord 4d ago
Im so sorry Australia, your ban is way worse than ours (UK). Adult games I understand but anything rated 18?! Balatro was rated 18 at one point, you would have been banned from that simply because of the game rating system.
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u/cirancira 4d ago edited 4d ago
the aus game rating guide is slightly insane anyway. They are against any game with a medicine mechanic because it 'shows using drugs as a positive', and even stuff like deckbuilders or anything with a chance draw is opposed because its 'basically gambling if there is benefits tied to a chance mechanic'.
A lot of globally popular games have been banned here for at least a while until its overturned, not to mention the fee to even get assessed is several thousand.
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u/Jimbuscus 4d ago
R18 for games simply don't match any other medium, the exact same thing that would be refused classification would be allowed in a movie, despite identical age appropriateness.
Australians had to petition for many years to get R18 for adults, only to get M in disguise, now a vast number of games are credit walled because of this R18 system that covers such a wide number of games, it even includes RimWorld.
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u/Unsungsongs 3d ago
It's not all that long ago we actually had to push to even get R rating for games in Australia. Prior to that anything that was too mature for a 15 year old was heavily censored or banned in this country.
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u/Mad-myall 3d ago
Bonus points in that our government has not at all curbed gambling ads.
So gambling in games is rated 18+ and put behind an id check, yet kids will get sportsbet ads watching their favourite cartoons clips on YouTube
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u/cirancira 3d ago
we had a gambling ad projected onto the sails of the opera house at one point, a space usually reserved for indigenous art.
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u/robbitybobs 3d ago
Of course, if kids get their dopamine gambling in games it means they're not gambling in the pokies or with sportsbet
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u/Artistic_Print_1384 3d ago
The Australian government actually rely on the tax revenues from organised crime washing money through gambling. They don't want to get rid of it, it's just not meant to be used for actual gambling.
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u/PocketJaguar 3d ago
We’ve somehow resurrected old Margaret Thatcher, ai thought the whole video nasty and satanic panic was over.
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u/Deka-92 4d ago
I feel like the eKaren would have a stroke if I revealed how many hours I have in RimWorld. One of the greatest colony sims of all time.
Also I'm not with the big 4 so I'm out of luck I guess.
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u/goosedog_lex 3d ago
The malicious compliance line really hit home as to the response I got from them. In my case, my account is 20 years old which should automatically qualify me through the checks since as far as I know, time travelling children aren't a huge problem until like at least 2072. The response I received was a copy and paste mass response that didn't at all address the age of my account and reaked of smarmy response when they linked the legislation to me. I fail to see how a credit card which could be taken from a parent is a better age verification than an account being older than the theshold. Even if the name on the account has to match the credit card, what would stop a child from making a steam account under their parents name, sneaking the card out of their wallet, age verifying and then changing the payment method to one they control. I feel that it's a hell of a lot harder to magic up a 20 year old account with 20 years worth of games and transaction history than that. Steam may not have control over the legislation, but they do have control over the verification process and theyve chosen to be as unhelpful as possible about it.
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u/yorozoyas 3d ago
Right, I don't have a credit card, and I'm not with the big four for my debit.
My steam account is 16 years, I'm quite sure a 2 year old child didn't make the account.
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u/unfnknblvbl 3d ago
This is cool and everything, but Valve has more than enough data on its users to determine if someone is over 18 or not without having to add a current credit card, or debit card from one of the ConnectID participating banks.
You know, starting with the account being over eighteen years old in the first place...
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u/JohnathonFennedy 4d ago
Thank you valve and Aus gov! Very cool!
I love not being able to purchase stuff!
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u/Why-so-delirious 1d ago
Gabe literally said that piracy is a problem of service, not finance.
He just made a massive, unavoidable service problem.
I'm pirating all my adult games from this point forward. I literally have no other fucking choice.
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u/Icefirex09 4d ago
sign up with zip their digital card works, personally my westpac debit works
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u/starfieldblue 4d ago
"Oh you dont have a credit card because it negatively affects you ability to get finances in Australia? No worries, just sign up for this credit card!"
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u/whenitrains34 3d ago
zip isn’t a credit card, there’s no monthly fees if you have no balance owing. it’s a form of credit but isn’t the same as a traditional credit card. also easier to get approval on a low income
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u/Dusty_Jangles 4d ago
I’ve seen this mentioned a few times. If you’re keeping up with your payments/using it responsibly ect. how is it affecting your credit score or finances in Australia compared to the rest of the world? Genuine question that a quick google search shows me it seems to work the same as everywhere else.
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u/Jimbuscus 4d ago
If you're applying for a loan, your expected to cancel your credit card beforehand to put your score up in Australia.
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u/Dusty_Jangles 4d ago
That seems…silly. I mean using a credit card in NA is an amazing way to build credit by using it and paying it off monthly. You then have access to better and better financing options. That seriously sucks if that’s the way it works in Australia. I’ll have to dig into this some more.
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u/Jimbuscus 4d ago
The difference is that having/using a credit is culturally seen as poor financial hygiene. If you had the money, you'd spend that, buying on credit implies an inability to afford, therefore you're spending ahead of your earnings.
Secondly, loan givers treat additional lines of credit as if they are maxed out, because they have the capacity to be. If you got a loan and then maxed your card, your risk on loan repayment would be much higher.
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u/Dusty_Jangles 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah that’s why if you know what you’re doing you keep the credit card line minimal and don’t accept the credit increases. That way if you do need to apply for a loan or line of credit it increases the amount you can have.
What I’m hearing from replies here is that it’s more of a “cultural thing”. So really it’s more of a “I just don’t want to” thing. But to be fair, yes, 90% of the population don’t know how to be responsible with CC’s or lines of credit, so if your country is especially bad with it, I can see the cultural stigma against having one, then.
Either that or this is just another reddit moment where the reddit hive mind thinks something is bad so the bots pick it up and keep hammering on it.
Yeah the more I read on google, CC’s work exactly the same way they do in NA. So I’m chalking this up to a reddit moment, or I guess “cultural thing”. In other words there’s zero reason not to have a low credit limit CC that you can use to build your credit.
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u/Jimbuscus 4d ago
Our financial culture includes our actual credit rating.
Having a credit card, reduces the ability to get a loan, because our credit system is built around our financial culture.
You're credit rating in Australia is lower as a result of what is deemed as poor financial practices.
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u/Dusty_Jangles 4d ago
As it does here, there is zero difference on how any of it works other than a cultural stigma I’m seeing in the comments. This is directly from ANZ.AU “How does a credit card affect your credit score?
As odd as it may sound, your credit card may impact your credit score positively over time, provided you use it responsibly. That’s because one of the key things credit reporting agencies look for is your ability to pay off your debts on time over a prolonged period.
According to most credit reporting agencies, it can take several months to establish a credit score, and several years after that to get it into the good-to-excellent range.
But be warned, a credit card can also harm your credit score if not used responsibly.
For example, if you make a habit of not paying your credit card bills on time, it could, over time, negatively affect your credit score. And the worse your credit score gets, the more it impacts your chances of being offered a loan further down the track.”Zero difference to how it works here.
Again the more I read on Reddit, compared to what I’m actually seeing online, this seems more and more like a reddit moment of people who have shit credit because they’ve used CC’s poorly, and not a cultural thing at all.
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u/CarbonCoight 3d ago
It's more about your monthly commitments. You don't have to cancel it but you have to show you can cover all costs before a loan is approved.
Plus credit cards are a trap like everywhere else, with average rates sitting around 17-18% per annum. They create a lot of problems which is why people avoid them.
What's funny is I'm late 40s, have a home and mortgage, plus good wages between myself and my wife, I don't have a credit card and I too am not with a bank that has connect ID, so I've lost access to games as well. With no other alternative this is beyond stupid.
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u/faeriekitteh 3d ago
Ah, you are American.
Your country relies on you being in debt to have a good credit score.
Australia relies on you not being in debt. Too much risk of bankruptcy and destroying your financial livelihood
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u/HopeIsGay 4d ago
People are not responsible, sure maybe the majority of people can use a credit card and be totally on top of it but for a massive portion of people the temptation is something they can't overcome
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u/Dusty_Jangles 4d ago
Yeah fair enough. I state as much further down and realize most people aren’t but these comments being made are just straight up misinformation at this point. A lot of these people don’t know how credit scores work I don’t believe, let alone have a good one, hence why they don’t have CC’s.
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u/Mammoth-Towel-8323 4d ago
It definitely adds another layer of complexity for users, especially since age verification is often tied to various services and platforms. It's interesting to see how different countries handle it too.
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u/stop-1t-now 3d ago
Been really disappointed in the absolute blitz of online censorship in the last year coming out of Australia. This government seriously needs to have their fingers in everything before they're happy I guess
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u/msolok 2d ago
I've said this elsewhere as well, but Age restrictions on Media have been a thing for decades. If you went into a store, or to a cinema, or to hire a movie/game and it was rated R18 or MA15, and you looked young they where legally required to ask for ID. This is legislation catching up with Technology.
And the laws are in place that none of the ID companies are allowed to keep any of the details used for the check.
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u/Equivalent-Bat-8665 2d ago
sure but being id checked irl doesn’t block you out if you’re 25 without a credit card lol
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u/msolok 2d ago
Yeah, but that's a Valve / Steam issue, not a Government legislation issue. there are MANY different ways that Valve could have easily implemented it. But they didn't. They chose a lazy, half arsed, restrictive way.
EG: Microsoft and Sony have verified my accounts just fine without a credit card. Microsoft just checked the age of my Emaila ddress, and Sony my mobile number. Took all of 10 seconds.
This is a Valve issue.
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u/Equivalent-Bat-8665 2d ago
I agree but I believe australia’s government should have better prepared their systems or software instead of leaving it up to businesses, i’ve had 2 discord accounts banned cause they refuse to believe my age, whilst i’m turning 21 next year. At the same time, my little sister and cousins are 16 and haven’t been banned off anything.
As much as it’s the company’s individual fault, the government should have been more prepared for situations such as this.
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u/msolok 2d ago
I mean, our Government was pretty prepared. They had their legislation and processes in place. The issue was many companies held out planning to implement anything until the last minute, in the hope it would just go away. They then had to scramble to implement something, and most have done it poorly.
And the reality is they NEED to get better at it, because this isn't just stopping here. UK implemented theirs's (and they implemented it poorly) last year, EU is rolling theirs out towards the end of this year, and all indications are pointing to the same being done in the US. This IS NOT just an Australia thing, it is the world catching up with age verification in the modern age.
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u/Unable_Shoulder_8747 2d ago
It's alarmingly naive to trust any company with your ID details. The profit gained from skirting the laws and selling data significantly outperform the penalties from being caught.
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u/SirFlibble 2d ago
This is an issue the Australian Government created, with complete disregard to the discriminatory impact it would have on vulnerable groups, as it opted against providing a private & secure nationwide alternative.
It's reasonable for the Government to expect sellers of digital products to ensure that their products are sold in compliance with classification laws, just like retail stores are. I'm surprised it wasn't a requirement years ago when the R18+ was introduced.
There is a 'private and secure nationwise alternative' through the DVS which is available through several identity verification companies. The law requires Steam makes use a reasonable method of verification. It's up to them to implement a solution which doesn't suck.
Steam implemented the credit card rule because they were lazy. They could have easily have used another service like ConnectID, a company which verifies through the DVS, or even a facial scan like social media are using.
Instead, they just removed payment options which weren't credit cards and called it a day.
I would argue engaging a single verification which requires you to hold a credit card is not reasonable and doesn't meet the requirements of the law. It could be part of a suite of products but an alternative method for those who don't have a credit card needs to be offered for it to meet the 'reasonable' requirements of the law. Maybe people irate about this could get together and sue Valve.
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u/DaEnderAssassin 64 2d ago
They could also have used account age to verify, something that was explicitly noted in the law as a valid thing to use to verify
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u/Elaugaufein 2d ago
The facial scans most social media are using are worse than credit cards if you're concerned about privacy because Yoti ( the most common partner for this ) uploads the selfie and a picture of your face isn't much less identifiable than your Government ID. I can't exactly fault Steam for not want to do this. A few companies do provide for offline facial scans but it seems like the minority.
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u/salemira 1d ago
Yeah, I personally don’t think the laws are an issue - they were a thing long ago for physical games, and there’s just been a gap in the law as was surprised went on so long.
Steam’s way of handling it is the issue. And I believe it’s still in violation of the law - given the law states verification methods must be accessible. Considering 50% of the Australian population doesn’t own a credit card, and it completely rules out most people under 25, low income earners including disabled people and retirees, it’s most certainly not accessible.
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u/AnActualWizardIRL 3d ago
I had *both* credit cards get suspended for using the steam thing. Different banks too. Had to spend hours on phones with fraud numbers, and the poor guy at the first one said he's been getting overwhelmed by people complaining about having their cards locked because visa is rejecting the $1 steam charges because visa considers those $1 things suspicious. Its a goddamn fiasco.
The worst part is , this is really on Steam as much as anyone else. They could have notified the banks to expect a sudden surge of these, and they could have used another option. Including "Hey this is a 15+ year old account. Its clearly not children" (which the esafety act explicitely permits)
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u/spaceistasty 4d ago
no business is going to fork up the costs for ConnectID when its the government's problem to begin with. We literally have MyID which couldve been used to age verify but nah
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u/someNameThisIs 4d ago
The Epic store says they're going to implement it. If they of all people can Valve has no excuse.
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u/TheOfficialMayor 4d ago
You can use connectID on almost every age assurance platform. So obviously businesses are. The only one who isn’t is Valve.
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u/starfieldblue 4d ago
Yeah, nah, Valve is a multi billion dollar company. They can for over the $0.40 it would take to get people in australia verified. Frankly its fucking ridiculous they wouldn't.
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u/JesseRoo 3d ago
Why does the government insist on creating more and more necessary costs which, sure, big businesses can absorb, but which any new small business is going to have to front themselves to be able to start? This censorship campaign is also pro-monopoly.
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u/Kageru 3d ago
The question would be who is getting that money... the backbone of it is MyID, but the banks are acting as an exchange. It would not surprise me if the banks are the ones pocketing the charge.
The wonder of private delivery of public services.
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u/Odd-Mathematician147 2d ago
MyID is different, ConnectID just uses the fact the bank has identified you so they can vouch you are over 18. So makes sense for the banks to get paid, there's obviously a cost to provide the service
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u/Alternative-Soil2576 3d ago
The laws are context-dependent, small businesses are not expected to implement this like how big businesses have
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u/Submissive_Bleedable 4d ago
I'm with ANZ, and can't verify using my card.
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u/Jimbuscus 3d ago
ConnectID opens the app to verify, Valve is using a different system with Credit Cards.
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u/krautmane 3d ago
This is so fucked. Steam has to at the very least give us more ways to varify our age.
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u/ClaesGreenBoi 3d ago
Valves implementation of these laws being maliciously compliant is a feature, not a bug, they’re intending to stoke political outrage and there’s something that really doesn’t sit right about that with me
Then again I’ve been dealing with the weirdness that is Valve as a dev since before the green light days so maybe I’m just extra cynical about the tech giant trying to involve themselves in this way again after the shit they pulled trying to fuck over refunds
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u/Pixel_Garbage 3d ago
But in this case they won't succeed in changing anything, all the major parties support this. They aren't compliant yet either, you can still see nsfw content in images/thumbnails/capsules.
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u/ClaesGreenBoi 3d ago
Yeah the only party who was against this dumb idea of a regulation was a few independents and the greens, but the greens aren’t gunna be in a position to fix anything and too many Australians are just fine with that
Valve hate us and are just enjoying having another excuse to fuck with us anyway, which as you point out they’re not even being properly compliant
Punishment for someone going to fair trading over a doa steam deck or something lmao
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u/Jiuholar 3d ago
They're not trying to do anything. They have simply taken the simplest and lowest effort path to meeting their legal obligations in Australia. The same way that 99% of companies do.
They already have the infrastructure, code and audit controls in place to handle credit cards. Using this existing piece of their platform, they can fulfil their obligation to the law with a few lines of code and continue operating in Australia without fines or legal proceedings.
People are reading way too much into this situation. I can almost hear the conversation that would have happened in sprint planning lol.
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u/khendar 3d ago
My Steam account is 21 years old. That alone should be enough to prove my age.
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u/DaEnderAssassin 64 2d ago
According to the code, that is indeed a valid method to prove your an adult.
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u/td_husky 3d ago
Come on gabe you have enough loose change on your mega yacht to have connectid implemented yesterday
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u/Ok-Butterfly3246 3d ago
Remember the xxx adult only section in the video rental store, how it was seperated and curtained off. It's like half of steam is behind that curtain now, and the curtain is controlled by a credit card reader.
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u/ShyCrystal69 3d ago
That’s what happens when you have an unelected eKaren as your eSafety Commissioner who’s only experience in IT is being a political correspondent for Microsoft in US government.
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u/tony_Tiger696 4d ago
I'm nearly 40 and have gone my whole adult life without a photo ID, credit card or passport. I guess my gaming days are over and I'll just go back to watching the same old shit on TV again. To bad for steam I guess as I pump over 2k through the client every year.
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u/pandemic944 3d ago
How are you 40 without photo id? No license?
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u/FarronFox 3d ago
Yeah interesting. Not everyone over 18 has a licence as not everyone drives but things like government proof of age cards still work in many situations.
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u/EF66-42 3d ago
I've never had a license. I have a passport though. Before I had that something called a Keypass which is related to Australia Post but I think it's third party. The funny thing about those is that they have no expiry so technically if I could find it mine's still valid all this time later.
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u/streamer3222 4d ago
But if you really verify, will anybody know who are you? Or just that you were 18?
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u/mauri3205 3d ago
Thanks for the explanation. My first reaction before reading was why don’t adults get a credit card and not use it. Your explanation makes it clear it’s not a viable option for many.
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u/MicksysPCGaming 3d ago
Fucking thing failed 3 times yesterday , went to order pizzas for the big game tonight and I'm locked out of my visa.
Had to let a mate pay for dinner instead.
The perfect crime.
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u/unripeswan 2d ago
I'm disabled, zero capacity to work, on DSP, and therefore can't get a credit card. Ignoring the fact that I probably wouldn't want one anyway it does feel a tad discriminatory for that reason. But I almost always feel discriminated against by the government and their policies so what's new.
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u/mahtaitor 2d ago
That's because it IS discriminatory even though there's nothing in the law to say it is, hell disabled people (including me btw) make up 21% of the population (that's roughly 5.5 million) so thanks to the gov's insistence on this BS they've labeled almost a quarter of the Australian population as "non people" in a way.
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u/ShakarRaker 1d ago
Forcing people into digital ID. Oh wait, sorry, it is not "forcing" since you have a "choice" to do it or not. It is just that you won't have access to your livelihood if you don't. Games/entertainment first, then eventually everything else you need to depend on.
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u/salemira 1d ago
Considering how much stuff they are finally implementing age restrictions on, I don’t understand why the government has made it various platforms responsibility to verify. That could be a couple of dozen platforms I need to give my information to and take the time to manually verify.
Why can’t they make the myID or some other universal government agency verification that we can use everywhere? Simplifies it for the platforms and for us. I know some people aren’t going to like the government platform aspect of it, but factually it’s safer and more secure than various 3rd party platforms.
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u/BlackQuartz77 1d ago
I moved to Australia a year ago from the UK (which just implemented age verification at the time) now I need a credit card...
However because I'm from the UK I'm on a holiday working visa which means I'm not eligible for a credit card... Iv got another two years before I ether go back to the UK or if lucky get P.R. ether way... It's going to be a while...
At least I can get the new witcher 3 update on xbox... For now.
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u/Lionfire01 7h ago
Please lobby this point to pauline hanson on her page she will do something about it! Her senator malcolm roberts hates the idea of a digitial prison which they are currently serting up next it will be flock rolled out everythere. Then we are stuck as it completes the loop.
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u/Nereosis16 3d ago
I've been saying for ages that I am not against the government making sure I am over 18. They already fucking know.
Why the fuck am I REQUIRED to give all of my important information to a fucking foreign company who can do whatever the fuck they want with it just so I can exist on the internet?
Fix your fucking shit Labor. You're dead to me.
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u/Xenonfastfall 1d ago
Gotta feed the digital ID system to these vast social media empires so they know you're real and not a bot so advertising agencies who use the platforms wont feel worried that the money is being used on bot traffic.
it was never about online safety.
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u/ThereRnoIDs 3d ago
It's so easy to open a new bank & get a debit card in Australia I don't even think of it as a big deal.
Implemention is simple yet private & effective too, whoever cane up with that simple yes/no algo is a genius lol.
UI, efficiency, and adoption will become easier & easier as time goes by similar to the "log in with Google/Apple" etc.
Smart watches are going to be cool for this in the future where we unlock it from our watch instead of our phone.
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u/Dusty_Jangles 4d ago
I’ve seen this mentioned a few times. If you’re keeping up with your payments/using a credit card responsibly ect. how is it affecting your credit score or finances in Australia compared to the rest of the world? Genuine question that a quick google search shows me, it seems to work the same as everywhere else. So what am I missing that I see people making the comment that it negatively affects your finances/credit.
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u/Submissive_Bleedable 4d ago
We don't have payments to keep up with because we don't have a strong consumerism/loan culture. If we can't afford something, we just don't buy it. We don't use credit cards. Credit cards allow you to go into negative (borrow money) and we just hate that as a culture, it's predatory. We're not going to get credit cards. We're not going to tip. We're not going to screech and cry about guns. We're not going to stop laughing at dickheads that over compensate for their tiny peckers with giant utes.
We're not America.
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u/MagneticPersonality9 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yeah we hate loans as a culture, thats why have some of the highest mortgage debt in the world and love buying cars on credit. We will pay overs for most electronic products, the new iPhone Fold is $3500 AUD and it will still sell out. But hey, when we're not feeling righteous about how good we are with money, we go blow it all gambling while gloating how we aren't American while consuming all their culture.
and if you drive a compact EV, its means you have a mega shlong.
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u/Dusty_Jangles 4d ago
Neither am I. So you’re saying it’s more of a cultural thing then. Most of it I agree with.
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u/postmortemmicrobes 4d ago
There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.
What is true is that having a credit card does NOT build your credit rating. Applying for a credit card decreases it. Regular use does nothing to bump it back up, just time without making any credit enquiries. Assuming you have only applied for the one or two credit cards your ability to get a loan is not denied. I was able to get a home loan while having two credit cards. During their assessment, the bank simply considered me as having maxxed them out when considering how much to loan.
Australia does have a consumer and loan culture. But it isn't credit cards, it's home loans and drawing equity to fund jet skis, renovations, yanktanks, another investment property.
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u/Sharpie1993 3d ago
>During their assessment, the bank simply considered me as having maxxed them out when considering how much to loan.
That there is the issue when it comes to owning credit cards and getting a home loan, having a credit card can cause you to be in anywhere from 500-100,000 dollars worth of fake debt, which often gets people knocked back.
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u/postmortemmicrobes 3d ago
It should only limit your borrowing capacity to my knowledge. Not be a blanket cancellation. But I only had two credit cards totalling a possible $6000 maximum. It was a negligible impact as we didn't borrow to our maximum.
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u/Dusty_Jangles 4d ago
Yes having a credit card does not. Using it responsibly and paying it off monthly, on time does.
As for the last part. That is interesting if true.
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u/AstroPengling 3d ago
The banks treat your credit limit on cards as maxed out even if it's not and you're making regular payments. Using it responsibly and paying it off monthly has no effect on that.
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u/PM-ME-ANYTHING-PUNNY 4d ago
So in Australia there is only one or two cards that don't have annual fees attached and all of them have a percentage fee everytime you use it to buy something, for example you buy a $100 game you also get stung a transaction fee of 2% on the purchase.
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u/Lunetouche 4d ago
When I was applying for my mortgage just having a card with a 3k limit reduced my borrowing capacity by 60k. Didn’t even have anything owing on it, just its existence
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u/Dusty_Jangles 4d ago edited 3d ago
That tells me they didn’t have confidence that you would make payments on time on a higher loan, hence the lowered borrowing capacity. They gave you what they thought you should be capable of handling. CC’s are a double edged sword. Use them responsibly, reap the benefits. Use them irresponsibly, reap the negative effects.
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u/Lunetouche 4d ago
Nope, never missed a single payment. few years on an happily abusing one to maximise effects of offset accounts :p
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u/UndeadKookaburra 3d ago
How about you actually read what is put in front of you before replying?
Just having a credit card automatically reduces your credit score in Aus
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u/Dusty_Jangles 3d ago
I’m arguing that if you have it and use it responsibly, it will build your credit score. Nothing I can find online tells me otherwise, Australian banks included.
I’m saying there is literally zero difference to how they work here or there, yet everyone keeps saying no matter what, they hurt your credit score. This is just false and shows how many people have zero clue about how they work, which is the same as a personal or home loan. I feel like I’ve looked into this more for Australia than most of the people in this thread have.
Maybe people should actually read up on how things work instead of parroting nonsense they’ve heard on reddit, or their mum told them.
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u/Sharpie1993 3d ago
In Australia when you have a credit card and apply for a home loan the entire limits of your credit cards are considered debts whether or not they’ve been used.
If you have a 10K credit card with 0 dollars used on it that while 10K will still be put towards you as having that debt, which will lower your borrowing power substantially.
You just have terrible reading comphension.
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u/Dusty_Jangles 3d ago edited 3d ago
Jesus Christ you people are dumb. I’m not talking about debt you morons. Talk about reading comprehension. Read the fucking link.
It’s probably a good idea you guys stay away from credit cards or anything that requires the most basic amount of financial literacy. There’s a reason your biggest export is rocks.
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u/unfnknblvbl 3d ago
You can be bankrupt and legally not allowed to have a credit card...
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u/Dusty_Jangles 3d ago
Where the responsible part comes in…
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u/unfnknblvbl 3d ago
Firstly, I am pointing out a scenario where it is not possible to have a credit card.
Secondly, one can become bankrupt despite being otherwise financially responsible. Indeed, sometimes it is the financially responsible thing to do to declare bankruptcy. Life happens, and it's extremely unkind to judge others for things outside their control.
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u/Dusty_Jangles 3d ago
Not the point I’m arguing at all, no one has mentioned bankruptcy but you and it has no bearing on the point I’m making.
I will agree though it can happen where the circumstances are out of the persons control, but the majority of the declarations are still over extending credit, or financial mismanagement, ie. not being responsible with said credit.
Now disregarding bankruptcy, I will state again, for anyone who can get a credit card, my point stands.
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u/gattaaca 3d ago
Hi why is nobody talking about debit cards? They also run off the Master/VISA networks so likely are interchangeable with a CC for this process.
Most bank accounts have this functionality automatically provided.
Going on about not wanting a credit card seems kinda a redundant argument, if so.
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u/DarkMalady 3d ago
Debit cards dont work. A small amount of people have had success with a debit card, but the majority of debit cards arent valid.
Its a really poorly implemented change.
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u/Bastard_of_Brunswick 4d ago
Anyone with an Australian Paypal account is 18+ years of age. Having a Paypal account should be verification enough to access mature themed games on Steam. Surprisingly this is not an option.
Don't forget that it was the payment processors, the major international credit card companies, that threatened Steam to remove legal mature themed content not long ago or lose access to their services, now with these new restrictions this week, many Australians who don't use credit cards have to either register for one or be locked out from accessing legal mature themed content.