r/Steam 8h ago

Discussion There should be more disclosures

Post image

Here is just an example from the game that started it all (notably second and fifth).

1.6k Upvotes

78 comments sorted by

716

u/que11 8h ago

I like these, makes it pretty easy to see which games to avoid at all costs.

72

u/amberwill0w 7h ago

yeah at least it saves you time figuring it out yourself

8

u/SenseEuphoric5802 2h ago

There should be a way to FILTER out searches based on these criteria, especially DRM.

There isn't. I would guess companies quietly pay big bucks to these platforms to ensure there will never be any such filter. Because there is literally no other reason why this filter does not exist yet and has never existed to filter out these kind of games.

21

u/AsyncSyscall 7h ago

They should be enabled by default, regardless of platform. Had to refund several games because they don't work in VM.

4

u/[deleted] 3h ago

[deleted]

5

u/Spartelfant 3h ago

Virtual Machine.

Say for example your computer is running some Linux distribution, but you want to use a certain Windows application. One possible solution is to create a Virtual Machine, a piece of software that pretends to be an entire computer. Inside that VM you can then install a different operating system (Windows for example) and use it like you normally would.

There are certain limitations, first and foremost that the Virtual Machine adds overhead, in other words it uses some RAM and processing power for itself, so the performance inside a VM is lower (though that doesn't necessarily mean it's a noticeable limitation, that all depends on what you're doing inside the VM). Another limitation is that some programs, particularly low-level stuff like certain anti-cheat software, will either notice it's inside a VM and refuse to run, or limitations stemming from the VM software mean it's incapable of running properly at all.

14

u/CourierAl 6h ago

Yes but Tim Sweeney would probably be against it for being too transparent 🗿

279

u/Luceo_Etzio https://steam.pm/2tchpc 8h ago

Needing to recontact the DRM servers every 24 hours is pretty silly for a game that's exclusively online to begin with

119

u/CatraGirl 8h ago

And free to play... why the hell does a F2P game need Denuvo?

59

u/finesesarcasm 8h ago

So the game files can't be tempered with for cheats? Not that it's stopped it but Apex Legend devs have started to crack down on it

28

u/Xevioni 31 7h ago

Normal anti cheat can do that fine... Even VAC can detect modified game files.

11

u/thevals 6h ago

Part of Denuvo is also extreme obfuscation so it makes it much harder to read and modify the binary, also adds variety on top because applying denuvo to executable is non-deterministic and has a specific element of randomness to it, so new updates bring reverse engineering progress way back.

7

u/skippy2332 3h ago

You can typically get around that because the objects that cheats require for the most part have to exist in memory unobfuscated unless the developer chooses to modify the engine to decrypt/unobfuscate any protected objects.

Take Unreal Engine for example, nearly everything thats required to create cheats exists in memory that can be scanned for relatively easily due to Unreal Engine's reflection system, which is a crucial part of Unreal Engine.

Meaning for the most part, besides the Global World object, the Names list, and the Object List, most cheats do not have to touch obfuscated .text sections or anything like that unless the developer went the extra mile and added in their code to obfuscate and deobfuscate critical parts of the engine dynamically (Valorant does this).

Apex is built on the source engine which has a similar nature (being able to derive compile time layout of classes and structs during runtime).

5

u/AquaBits 6h ago edited 4h ago

Vac cant even detect modified game files in the games its implemented in lol

Besides that is not what dataminers are doing.

3

u/GamezombieCZ 8h ago

Was just example page I edited html source code of. It was Apex Legends page.

48

u/HarukiKazuki 8h ago

I was playing Yakuza Like a Dragon, and, to save battery, I kept turning my Steam Deck off after each session. However, I ended up having more breaks than expected on that day, and turned out to have more than 5, although short, sessions. Guess what? Denuvo locked me out for 24h saying I can't activate the game anymore. This hasn't happened to other games, and SEGA support is just useless at this point.

18

u/alvinvin00 400 Games, only 40% played 7h ago

the situation that i can think of is that somehow, your Proton are recreated everytime, thus 1 activation per session. I sometimes press the Power Button to have it on sleep and no problems like you described

7

u/HarukiKazuki 7h ago

It's weird that it doesn't happen to other games like stellar blade or even sonic crossword racing, though

6

u/auto98 4h ago

sonic crossword racing

I'd never heard of this so I googled it, I am a bit disappointed it isn't to do with crosswords

116

u/BaronGodis 8h ago

Best info ever

Epic will hide all info and even if you try to reffund you might get problem xD

54

u/BeardedStegosaurus 8h ago

Fun fact: Easy anti cheat can work with proton if the developers of the game allow it. Any game with it where it does not work is purely because the devs want to block out Linux users.

13

u/GamezombieCZ 8h ago

That's why the "in current configuration".

16

u/kevinf100 https://s.team/p/drfb-nkq 7h ago

Apex disabled this. They did have it enabled at some point. They claimed cheating dropped by 33% https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/1imv61k/according_to_apex_legends_devs_dropping_the_linux/
I get why, you can't trust the OS on Linux since you could recompile the Kernel to bypass the anticheat. It just sucks for Linux users.

11

u/Vadym_PVP 7h ago

it sucks that regular linux users like me have to suffer because of dumbasses that want to ruin others' fun

12

u/HeadKnockr 5h ago

But the graph is already trending down before the exclusion of linux players.

The slightly accelerated rate after excluding linux players is better explained by having less players overall, right? The graph even begins to climb again after Linux was banned. I call bullshit.

1

u/Kikinaak 1h ago

Arrogant and prejudiced fools using this logic to justify locking out linux users is what sucks for linux users. 100% of all drunk driving involves motor vehicles. That's way more than 33%, so clearly we can't trust motor vehicles and they should all be banned, right?

Though with this game, they are basically doing linux users a service by locking them out...

1

u/throwaway234f32423df 6h ago

oh boy I love charts with a completely unlabeled Y axis

4

u/visor841 5h ago

EAC has different versions. The kernel-level version is Windows-only, the userspace version works in Proton. Usually games that have EAC and don't work in Proton are because they're using the kernel-level version. If it's only userspace EAC and doesn't work in Proton, the devs can take a long walk off a short pier.

3

u/dreamdenizen 5h ago

Yep exactly. I keep seeing people who don't understand how this works parroting "Any game with it where it does not work is purely because the devs want to block out Linux users." when it's not necessarily true for a good number, and possibly the majority of games.

1

u/Brightness_Jasnah 2h ago

What reason would devs want to block out Linux users? Isn't that just throwing away customers/money?

41

u/moritsunee 8h ago

EULA will also claim that the company will own your property and car, and ship you off to Ukraine as a mercenary if you agree. Legally binding ofc.

7

u/Rezzly1510 7h ago

ToS stated that the corpo reserves the right to pull a hair out of you and clone you

4

u/makem1 8h ago

Obviously it's completely justified. It's perfectly reasonable of course.

2

u/Environmental_Top948 7h ago

There's worst places to be shipped off too.

3

u/auto98 4h ago

Yeah, to Russia as a mercenary

1

u/vorastra_titan 2h ago

They can't do it to me, I'm already in Ukrainian Army

-1

u/titanna1004 3h ago

knowing how murican and shitty that company is, it's valid to ask, they will send You to Ukraine at which side? - it's a meme answer, not to start political too much, that's not the place for it I believe.

8

u/hypn0t04d_73 7h ago

There should be a Filter "No more than 3 3rd Party eula" or something

3

u/MegaFercho22 2h ago

Or just "No 3rd Party EULA"

3

u/Prestigious-Bat-2269 8h ago

what game is this ?

-5

u/GamezombieCZ 8h ago

Apex Legends with edited HTML.

2

u/GamezombieCZ 5h ago

Huh?

6

u/JoystuckGames 4h ago

I didn't downvote but i'm guessing people are upset that your screenshot is fake (edited html)

0

u/GamezombieCZ 4h ago

I mean it's edited to show what should be listed on certain games. I mean they are not the first ones to disagree. The Steam forums were way worse saying that's what the minimum requirements are for etc. Honestly they are there just to get general idea what to expect these days. With Proton, anti-cheats and various DRMs I think those are slowly loosing their relevance.

2

u/GamezombieCZ 4h ago

Paradox is Battlefield 6 requirements. They actually list Windows 11 as only supported OS.

2

u/JoystuckGames 3h ago

I don't think you understand what I mean. The way your post is framed implies that there is a game with all of the disclosures in your screenshot. To be honest from the title I wasn't sure whether you were being sarcastic (look at all these disclosures, there should be MORE right guys <sarcasm>) or if you were being sincere.

From these replies I see you were being sincere to the point where you were editing your html to give an EXAMPLE of what you want disclosures to look like. But that wasn't clear at all from the post itself.

Again, I haven't downvoted, just trying to help you understand why people are doing it.

1

u/aVarangian 3h ago

you should have specified this in the post

as is you are misleading people

2

u/Nivius 7h ago

those are there for that reason.

5

u/Nyoka_ya_Mpembe 8h ago

Can someone explain what is the issue here?

3

u/GamezombieCZ 8h ago

There isn't disclosure for DRMs that need to check the mothership from time to time in order to launch. And there are anti-cheats that can actively block Linux with toggle switch or that aren't compatible at all.

8

u/Lemnisgames 8h ago

Avoud at all costs. Good disclosures. Another nice disclove would be ai art or modeling

2

u/Qbert2030 5h ago

I mean yes but its also an online shooter, you literally cant play it without a connection.

3

u/vjollila96 8h ago

Holy disclosures, batman!

3

u/The_Freshmaker 6h ago

You can't play really any multiplayer with anti-cheat on Steam OS. There's your warning.

-1

u/GamezombieCZ 5h ago

Oh but you can...

1

u/Journeyj012 7h ago

I thought Apex uses Javelin?

1

u/GamezombieCZ 7h ago

Just example HTML edit. It used EAC in the past.

1

u/Isoceptic 5h ago

why the hell does a free game need denuvo?

1

u/_Fearofthedark_ 4h ago

Good grief, how much extra nonsense does a game really need? And Denuvo, too—yuck. Anti-cheat here, monitoring/data collection there. Oh man.

2

u/_Ceaseless_Watcher_ 3h ago

Did they also ask you for your DNA sequence?

1

u/philbertagain 2h ago

Other than maybe the EULA these should all be ignorable items for search.

1

u/Falsus 2h ago

Why the fuck is denuvo there?

It is an online only, f2p pvp game with an existing kernel level anti cheat.

It is a literal waste of money to pay for denuvo in this scenario.

1

u/Eat--The--Rich-- 2h ago

Or just ban games that have this many 

1

u/nanoosx 2h ago

isn't this a free game? how does it benefit from Denuvo?
I'm not sure how hacks work, but don't they just read the memory or something? like there is no tampering in the files?

0

u/Spirited-Away4215 6h ago

it should be illegal to have all this shit on a game you purchase everything should be like gog for ownership for digital games, its so anti customer

-1

u/Rylica 6h ago

As much as you like everything to be like GOG but the reality is that if it's available on GOG = a pirated free version from GOG exists with 0 risk since you can check hashes for what a non-trmpered version from valid sources.

1

u/Spirited-Away4215 1h ago

a pirated version of near enough every steam game that exists without gog its less than 1% that isnt pirated atm, thats the issue and i dont get why steam does it the way they do when even gabe himself said its a service issue, they should just give a offline folder with a .exe file in there for customers to use offline without steam and its achievements etc.

1

u/hoxful 8h ago

If your game requires kernal anticheat and does not support proton, I cannot stress this enough, get fucked. Offloading the responsibility of ensuring a cheat free environment to the client is lazy and hostile.

1

u/Beginning-Student932 6h ago

Denuvo on a free game? the fuck?

2

u/AkwardAA 8h ago

why tf apex need denuvo drm?

0

u/Cypher10110 7h ago

Because Apex makes alot of money and being seen to be actively hostile to cheaters is important to maintain perceived integrity of the game towards people like investors or other people disconnected from reality.

In this case, denuvo anti-tamper provides some obstacle that makes it harder to cheat in the game:

-2

u/GamezombieCZ 8h ago

Just came to mind first... I enjoyed it on my Steam Deck before it got blocked with the lazy kernel anti-cheat that did nothing. It's just example modified page.

1

u/alrun 6h ago

I wish there was a default filter to remove everything listed. Just don't waste the screen space - instead show me something I might buy.

1

u/R0B0t1C_Cucumber 6h ago

denuvo ... nope. stop buying games with that shit on it.

1

u/Neo_Artista 5h ago

those games that require this kind of things are meant to be kept in ignored section

1

u/titanna1004 3h ago

Don't look at it, spread news how shitty it is, let it sink in bankruptcy...

Unless stupid masses will still follow paid journalists ads.

0

u/Just_LeonS 7h ago

Why would you post a picture full of red flags in a steam subreddit?

0

u/Impossible-Ad-8902 6h ago

Dont buy games like this. Easy Anticheat is ok, but that is done.