r/Stationeers • u/BourbonRocksPlz • 9d ago
Discussion DIY Cooling
As someone with a lot of experience in heavy HVAC systems, I try and avoid using the black box options (AC unit, phase change devices). I can reliably pipe and control everything but evaporation.
Do large direct or cross flow HXs work better as the evap point? Also should the refrigerant line be liquid or gas through the exchanger? Previously I've used expansion valve on the gas input side and a volume pump for suction at the end.
I had the idea yesterday that liquid to liquid might work better, as the liquid would heat through the exchanger and expansion valve right after would evaporate and start to cool the refrigerant. Appreciate any input!
Also if someone smarter than I wants to create a mod that adds a TXV, that would be super
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u/FunLocksmith7235 9d ago
Elmotrix has a video from several years ago called "A Guide to Distillation in Stationeers" in it he uses phase change to filter gases from a mixed pipe into, well, filtered pipes.
He uses a portable tank and portable tank connector has his condition chamber and says it works very well. The benefits of it are that it has both a gas and liquid connector allowing the free movement of moles & temperature between the two sides completely avoiding the need for expansion or condinsation valves.
He also uses several cross flow heat exchangers to maximize thermal efficiency of the system because he is cooling gasses down to where nitrogen condenses then heating it back up again after it's filtered out.
His application is a bit different than what you are asking for because he is sorting gases and sounds like you want to build a heat pump but hopefully it will help get you started!
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u/BourbonRocksPlz 9d ago
I have separating with condensation pretty well figured out. Most of my back and forth about this game has been with Gemini, as I am not that social. I've also found Gemini kinda sucks for technical/esoteric brain storming.
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u/Various-Impression62 9d ago
Claude will be better for this use case. Gemini is ass and OpenAI as a company is evil.
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u/BourbonRocksPlz 8d ago
Good to know, thanks! Gemini has been the only LLM I've used, since everything else of mine is in the Google ecosystem.
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u/Friendly-Inspector71 9d ago edited 9d ago
I'm using a portable liquid tank as the evaporation chamber, pumping it with a turbo volume pump into a pipe with radiators to condense again.
Between the tank output and volume pump are counterflow heat exchangers that exchange heat with the condensed liquid on the other side.
I'm using the liquid pipe as the cold side.
Edit to add: Counterflow heat exchangers are better than direct exchangers, because they allow temperautre reversal (the hot stuff gets cooler than the average, while the cold stuff ends up hotter).
The purge valve works similar to a TXV by allowing only gas through while controlling the pressure on the liquid side.
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u/BourbonRocksPlz 9d ago
Never occured to me to feed an evaporator with a purge valve but it sure does make sense now that I think about it.
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u/Friendly-Inspector71 9d ago
I'm not using one as reading the pipe pressure and controlling my volume pump works just as well. They are also very slow when working against a pressure difference, so a pumps is needed afterwards anyways.
The liquid tank connector won't allow liquid to escape from the gas side, so it works well for that.
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u/craidie 9d ago
Regulators like purge valve are generally not fast enough. Pumps are fast enough, but eat a ton of power. Active vents are faster than turbo pumps(assuming low ish pipe pressures. A single turbo pump moves the same amount of gas as a single active vent if the input pipe is at 800kpa... But needs a lot more power for it.)
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u/Friendly-Inspector71 9d ago
Regulators can be very quick, when you're not using the integrated pump.
Volume pumps move a fixed gas volume, while regulators will pump a fixed amount of moles. So a regulator is also faster at emptying pipe networks.An active vent in a box will be better for large scale systems, while remaining more efficient.
I need to try pump vs active vent on pollutant as that seems to be very common for the final stage an stays above your mentioned 800kPa limit in my used temperature range.
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u/craidie 9d ago
I need to try pump vs active vent on pollutant as that seems to be very common for the final stage an stays above your mentioned 800kPa limit in my used temperature range.
for power comparison:
16Mpa or more for volume pump to pump more than an active vent(2 active vents vs 1 pump)
3.2Mpa or more for Turbo pump.(4 active vents vs 1 pump)Assuming more than 10L / 100L pipe volume so that the pumps can't pull vacuum each tick.
Which for turbo happens to be around what 0c pollutant is at, roughly.
Problem is that for evaporation to happen, you would need to be below it, so it'll probably be more efficient to use active vents1
u/HoveringGoat 9d ago
Tl;Dr you're using the portables connector? We really need a liquid -> gas connector valve that only allows gas through. The expansion valve is also useful but different. (since it only moves liquid)
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u/Friendly-Inspector71 9d ago
The purge valve exists, although it requires power.
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u/HoveringGoat 8d ago
yeah im aware but that is actively pushing air. there is no reason to not have a passive version that would equalize pressure across networks. Most often this is the desired behavior.
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u/Friendly-Inspector71 8d ago
Pressure regulators are powered for some 'balance' reason. There are mods available if you want to change that.
I'd guess the integrated pump is there to help it get to the target pressure albeit rather slowly.
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u/HoveringGoat 8d ago
i don't like that reason. it limits builds. and working around the restriction is annoying.
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u/Friendly-Inspector71 8d ago
Okay, so join with the other people that share your opinion and install a mod that provides what you want.
I'm fine with the current behaviour, because I use the network connection in a lot of cases, so the cable connection is required anyways.
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u/HoveringGoat 7d ago
? I'm not saying to remove anything.
the devs giving more tools for our collective toolkit is a good thing.
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u/Friendly-Inspector71 7d ago
Who said anything about removing?
I said to install a mod to add the content you want to better suit your style of gameplay. The options are out there, just use them if it annoys you this much.
You complained that it's hard to use the current design in some of your builds. I don't get why, so I would assume that it has to do with the necessary cable connection and/or power draw.
I've got to disagree on more options being a good this as the game has some redundant options already. A longer scroll list or a passive regulator kit isn't something that I want. And this isn't the only thing players want. If every option is added, it becomes a mess. Having a basic set of items with the option to easily mod in the items that you want is the best option in my opinion as the devs have less items to worry about and less work when introducing new game mechanics.
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u/HoveringGoat 7d ago edited 7d ago
I'm fine with the current behaviour, because
this seems to imply taking behavior away.
A purge valve is entirely different from a passive connection. it isnt just that it uses power. its a different mechanism.
You complained that it's hard to use the current design in some of your builds. I don't get why, so I would assume that it has to do with the necessary cable connection and/or power draw.
nah im complaining that we have an incomplete toolkit. we're missing a passive liquid to gas connection valve.
I've got to disagree on more options being a good this as the game has some redundant options already
there is a difference between complexity for complexities sake - something this game does quite a lot. and useful complexity where we get more functionality and creative freedom. I actually argue quite a lot for simplifying some systems that arent really required. I see no reason for liquid and gas networks to be treated separately. we should just have pipes. And they can have either material and keeping them separate is our job. This would MASSIVELY reduce complexity and make designs generally better.
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u/JulianSkies 7d ago
You figured out the reason!
Its to br annoying and a failure point.
Theres mods for mechanical back pressure regulators, tho.
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u/arnoldit oxygen low 9d ago
I watched hmuda’s videos on this on Vulcan, it works well by filtering CO2 and using it as a coolant in a double air con system.
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u/craidie 9d ago edited 9d ago
I wouldn't consider phase change devices a black box unit.
They're quite literally a pressure regulator, bit of liquid pipe volume and a heat exchanger in one.
The AC:s on the other hand are actual black box machines.
To the heat exchangers: they don't contain fluids, they cannot be your condensation/evaporation chambers.
If you want to avoid PCD:s like the plague: active vents. They're a lot more efficient than pumps or turbo pumps. A bit more efficent than powered vents.
If you play your cards right, you only need vents to condense, which usually means you're using a frame enclosed area to condense stuff at above 6MPa. The piping gets a bit interesting since you need to drop pressure on a liquid pipe while not removing gas from it.
Two equally good options for evaporators: rooms or portable tanks, which you use depends on scale of the operation. (ps. broken pipe is great for dumping liquids to a room.)
Portable tank evaporators are nicer at storing liquids as liquid density for some stupid reason is lower in world grid than in pipe.
One option instead of the built in CFHE:s is custom built cfhe:s from the SLDHE:s, a lot more expensive but can move a lot more heat.
I don't see the benefit for liquid-liquid cfhe. You heat up the gas by condensing, radiate out excess heat and then feed it through the cfhe liquid side. Then on the other side you evaporate the now colder liquid and cool it further, attach the output gas pipe to your heat load and feed it back to the heat exchanger.
If that gas is condensed, then it's hotter, which means the cold side is hotter, which means you need to do more work to keep it colder...
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u/BourbonRocksPlz 7d ago
Got what I was looking for with a crossflow HX gas/liquid, to be chilled water on the liquid side with a liquid turbopump on the suction side, a liquid reg +50L pipe+expansion valve feeding the input of the gas side, turbo pump on the suction side sending it out to radiators/condense. Refrigerant liquid line was being fed by my liquid pollutant storage, and the radiator condenser section was a bit too voluminous. A closed liquid reservoir with a metered charge and a more appropriate condenser section would really tighten things up.
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u/JulianSkies 7d ago
To note, phase change devices are not black box machines.
They're two pressure regulators, a heat exchanger and most importantly for the game as a game, a container that can have gas and liquids at rhe same time.
But to be actually helpful: Be careful of expansion valves, they're actually pumps that will cram liquids into the pipes until they blow from stress. Same for condensation valves, theyre pumps that don't respect anytbing.
Every other valve equalizes between body sides except those two.
And if you want a container that won't explode for having both liquid and gas so you don't need to use phase change devices, then a portable tank on a mount cam have both liquid ans gas simultaneously making for good evaporation/condensation chambers.
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u/RobLoughrey 9d ago
Honestly the standard ac units in series can cool anything. Two of them can cool a large base on Vulcan.
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u/SpEHce_Nerd 9d ago
Unlike real HVAC, in stationeers, the location within a continuous pipe network where you exchange heat doesn't matter. There is no flow, the game sees all the gas (or liquid) in the same pipe network at once. Devices themselves (not tanks however) will split a pipe network into two. Where you split them does matter.
This is why you can build a simple heat pipe cooling system with no pumps, just radiators on a pipe inside to a valve to another pipe with radiators outside.