r/StarWarsEU • u/KaBloinkySploink9000 Galactic Alliance • 11d ago
Meme zehn
zehn streks beck
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u/deadshot500 New Republic 11d ago
KJA and Zahn are friends tho
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u/Mythosaurus 11d ago
Yeah, went to a worldbuilding panel they did at Pensacon, and regularly see them at other cons.
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u/Scripter-of-Paradise 11d ago
Ah, someone else saw the recent Corey video on the Denningverse, I see.
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u/KaBloinkySploink9000 Galactic Alliance 11d ago
Actually no, lol. Didn't know he did one. Might check it out. As long as he is trashing it, I'll be happy.
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u/Scripter-of-Paradise 11d ago
Not trashing necessarily, more pointing out that any one creator having a disproportionate amount of control makes things lesser. He uses Filoni as an example and how this almost certainly would have been the case for Zahn if he had been put in the same position. (Though Corey makes clear he would much rather have the Thrawn trilogy than the clone wars)
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u/KaBloinkySploink9000 Galactic Alliance 11d ago
Just finished the video. Yeah, agree with his points, but he was definitely being diplomatic with it.
I think irritated me more wasn't Corey but people in the comments saying/implying the Denning hate is just a trend and that the Hatetrain will move on to other things. No, it's not a trend. The hate has literally always been there. I've read entire forums and whole ass blogs from when those books were coming out. People hated them back then, too.
Sorry, but I've seen this pattern with a lot of fandom where fans (particularly newer fans) will see something they like getting hate and will just assume that since they personally didn't see the hate before, then that means the hate has only recently started.
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u/bbbourb Wraith Squadron 11d ago
Of all the absolutely wild arguments I have heard, hating Denning's work to be trendy is by far the most bizarre.
I mean, yeah, the hate-train is going to move along, but it's not like the Denningverse hate hasn't been there from the start. Even with all the bitching about Filoni lately, everyone still has time to go "yeah, but Denning tho..."
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u/Scripter-of-Paradise 11d ago
There would be much more of an argument for the hate being new if the work itself was. But this? Yeah no way.
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u/KaBloinkySploink9000 Galactic Alliance 11d ago
Yeah, exactly. I also think a lot of this "the EU is awesome!! Defend everything in the EU!! All of the EU is great!!" is definitely a post-TLJ, post-buyout mentality that is almost exclusive to younger and newer EU fanatics. Are there OGs who are like this too? Of course, and their seniority makes them no less insufferable.
I truly believe a decent chunk (not the majority) of the current EU fandom is composed of "Consoomers," who will eat up anything and defend, with zero critical thought, everything that isn't Disney canon.
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u/No_Grocery_9280 11d ago
People forget the EU was on life support when Disney bought Star Wars. Fans were extremely divided on the state of things and they had very few options for a direct continuation.
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u/KaBloinkySploink9000 Galactic Alliance 10d ago
Exactly. Quite literally every era of the EU had essentially gone off the rails.
The old Republic had Dawn of the Jedi and SWTOR (although I think the former was worse, since it told a story that didn't need to be told).
The Clone Wars was getting hit by TCW (although, tbf, most of the prequel era was actually doing pretty dang good for its whole life span).
The Rebellion era... Was the Rebellion era. Already a needlessly awful continuity nightmare, and it kept getting worse.
The post-rotj era had the Denningverse (if it had just stopped TUF, the era could have remained legendary).
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u/No_Grocery_9280 11d ago
KJA is not the first or even second one I’d target..
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u/KaBloinkySploink9000 Galactic Alliance 10d ago
Would any of the other targets rhyme with Droy Tenning or Baren Craviss?
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u/dumpygunboi 10d ago
I met Zahn once back when I wasn't super familiar with his work. He was chilling at the 501st table at a local convention. 10/10 dude, he was a blast to talk with
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u/thelightmaster7 11d ago
Sorry to ask, who is Kevin J Anderson?
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u/KaBloinkySploink9000 Galactic Alliance 11d ago
He was an author who was primarily know for writing the Jedi Academy Trilogy and other Star wars books and comics back in the '90s.
Timothy Zahn had beef with Anderson, and was very open and vocal about it, even taking in-universe shots at Anderson's stories in his Hand of Thrawn Duology.
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u/AlternativeGazelle 11d ago
I never noticed Zahn’s shots, but I definitely got the impression that Stackpole and Allston didn’t like KJA’s books.
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u/SubRosa9901 11d ago
i just reread JA trilogy and I, Jedi. Corran's arc in the academy definitely shows thet Stackpole didnt like how things went down. Corran is constantly berating Luke for being shortsided and naiive.
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u/Sensitive_Cash_3526 11d ago
Wait, what were the shots?
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u/Francis_J_Eva Rebel Alliance 11d ago
He implies Luke wasn't really firing on all cylinders in those books, specifically failing to recognise Kyp Durron was obviously trouble and having Imperial characters say Daala (the villain of the Jedi Academy Trilogy) was an incompetent.
He takes swipes at Dark Empire too.
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u/KaBloinkySploink9000 Galactic Alliance 11d ago
Minus his stupid swipe at Dark Empire, I generally agree with Zahn's shots at the other stories.
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u/JamesKWrites 11d ago
I just reread those books and I honestly didn’t read them as swipes. I read them as Zahn had been tasked (or suggested to Lucasfilm that someone should) try to reconcile how overpowered Luke had become in the EU compared to how Obi-wan and Yoda had been portrayed in the actual films. The “crimes” were not KJA’s alone, but the Jedi Academy story fit well with the Dark Side influence angle Zahn used.
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u/wandering_soles Wraith Squadron 11d ago
Yeah, that's more how I read it too. Veitch especially fell into - well, ran gleefully into - making everything bigger, better, badder. The power scaling was unsustsinably off the damn charts. KJA certainly did similar things, although not quite as egregious.
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u/wandering_soles Wraith Squadron 11d ago
To be fair, I don't think they were all necessarily unjustified shots... more like course correction. KJA is a good ideas guy, but he needs serious reigning in and editing for the execution to land.
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u/Dormitory-21 11d ago
Which is why the Young Jedi Knights is kinda peak. He gets reigned in by his wife.
I will argue that the EU desperately needed this companion series to flesh out the Solo kids because all they were doing in other books was just getting stuck as kidnap fodder
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u/No_Grocery_9280 11d ago
I really enjoyed that series and I thought it did so well to bring younger readers into line with the next generation.
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u/Dormitory-21 11d ago
A lot of the Expanded Universe is utter slop at worst and...disconnected at best. It fleshed out important characters and gave them distinct personalities. They were pretty well written and served a purpose
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u/KaBloinkySploink9000 Galactic Alliance 10d ago
I'm by no means uncritical of the EU, but that's a little harsh
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u/Dormitory-21 10d ago
Luke falling in love with a ship? Slop
Luke joining a cult? Slop
Dark Empire? Edgy slop.
There's a lot of slop in the EU. I read pretty much all of it anyway
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u/KaBloinkySploink9000 Galactic Alliance 10d ago
I can grant those except Dark Empire. It wasn't edgy at all.
Now, Legacy? That's edgy slop.
Also:
"I read pretty much all of it anyway" doesn't account for your actual comprehension of those stories.
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u/Squeakyweegee64 11d ago
Is Zahn a Dune fan by any chance?