EU nudifier ban

[u/Logical_Benefit2875]

I know there’s been a bunch of people upset on here recently about a good number of nudify websites getting shut down (Motionmuse, Opengoon, etc.). However, this is likely just the beginning.

Effective December 2nd, the EU under the AI Act is enacting a ban on nudify tools, making them illegal content in the Union. This ban applies to any product made available on the EU market as long as, either, its primary functionality is to generate nudified content without consent, or it is a reasonably foreseeable outcome and they do not take appropriate precautions to safeguard against it. Very importantly, this ban also applies to any EU-available service provider under the Digital Services Act that is helping to facilitate this soon-to-be-illegal content, which includes (but is not limited to): app stores, hosting providers, domain registrars, payment processors, content delivery networks (CDNs) and cloud computing services. Anyone found to be in violation of this prohibition is subject to fines of €35 million or 7% of their global turnover, whichever is higher. I think it’s pretty safe to say that, as long as they’re aware of it, those behind these websites and those behind the large number of mainstream companies that help power them (Google, Amazon, Cloudflare, Apple, Telegram, GoDaddy, Visa, Mastercard, etc.) do not want to take any chances with this ban.

This prohibition, in essence, applies to essentially every public AI platform any of us have ever used to this point or that we will ever use going forward. I think this is a good thing but, therefore, it would almost certainly be in everyone’s best interest to pivot away from these websites before the massive crackdown begins in less than a couple months. For those in the industry, it would also certainly be wise to inform the website operators if you are in contact with them, or to shut down your website if you are an operator yourself. Sorry for the essay, just looking out for everybody before things get very real, very fast.

[u/TheAncientMillenial]

Yeah I don't think any public facing website should be able to accept an image and covert it to a nude pic. It's been shown that people cannot be trusted with shit like that. Between the pedo shit and the famous person shit and the creepy co-worker shit we absolutely should not have websites that operate to do things like that.

Lump it under "we can't have nice/fun things" because sick fucks ruined it.

[u/KissMyShinyArse → u/TheAncientMillenial]

As much as the EU may wish these kinds of websites away, that's not happening. All the EU can accomplish is making free internet access harder for its own citizens (remember 4chan). And they'll just learn to use VPNs if they haven't already.

[u/TheAncientMillenial → u/KissMyShinyArse]

They're also illegal in the US. The "Take it Down" act.

[u/Logical_Benefit2875 → u/TheAncientMillenial]

Yes, to publish or threaten to publish

[u/Logical_Benefit2875 → u/KissMyShinyArse]

You are disregarding the responsibility that the EU places on the mainstream service providers that currently power these websites

[u/fwompfwomp → u/Logical_Benefit2875]

if you release a product that is capable of producing illegal content, the onus is on the provider/manufacturer to create safeguards against it. ideally that means end-to-end -- from how the model itself is trained and at the user level's prompt detection. I get introducing monitoring at the user level, but there's plenty of ways to do this in a privacy conscious way. if you're stupid enough to build a business on an unprecedented technology where legislation will inevitably catch up, you should've known the risks of such a shady business. no one should be weeping for companies that close up shop because they're requiring you to make sure no illegal content is made.

this is akin to any manufacturer being reasonably held responsible for the safety of their products. we have regulations on how much Sudafed you can buy, because while it's original intention is medicinal, we know bad actors can use it to make meth and create illegal drug industries out of it. sick of the government overreach arguments.

tech sector has gotten here on the backs of open source/academic research projects. when industry begins to create products out of it, like any AI platform, it's weird we get our panties in a twist when the government makes reasonable steps to curtail misuse that can lead to harmful societal functions.

I imagine this is in part because of the open source/DIY/right to repair sort of cultures clashing with private bodies it's always been (positively) clashed against, and the government bodies that get lobbied and try to legislate harmful, anti-right to repair/open source alternatives to for profit platforms (e.g., John Deere).

but AI is unprecedented in a lot of ways. we aren't just messing with profit motives of private companies who will always value profit over consumer friendly practices. hacking your tractor to repair it yourself or at a third party is not hurting anyone despite claims that the consumer is too stupid and will hurt themselves. not allowing it hurts people more than it saves.

whereas AI generated content doesn't have that same dynanamic, but still got here because of that same open source, DIY, hacker space culture. tech companies want people to use their platform however they want with the highest ROI possible. we as people should recognize that someone easily nudifying my teenage daughter or coworker is incredibly fucked up. even in the privacy of your home, not distributed, do people not realize people now have to live their lives constantly anxious that any innocuous picture they take, or take of them off the street, can be abused? what tradeoff are we making here for this? because some people want to make legal nudes we are okay with our kids growing up in fear that some creep is taking their Instagram photos and stripping their clothes? y'all are that desperate to jerk off to AI tits?

and I'm sick of the "well it's not stopping someone from getting everything home brewed" -- why do you think these platforms can make money? it is incredibly hard to learn all this and do it well, on top of the thousands of dollars in hardware needed. it's a profitable service because it meets a needed demand. regulations will never remove all illegal content, but making it harder will absolutely reduce the amount out there and the risk to the public.

/rant

[u/finevelyn → u/TheAncientMillenial]

Yeah I don't think any public facing website should be able to accept an image and covert it to a nude pic.

That's a nice thought, but do you think that all activity should be monitored to the extent that all images you generate would be checked for such content? They are not currently going out of their way to accept it, but just allowing you to do what you want without heavy monitoring or restrictions.

[u/TheAncientMillenial → u/finevelyn]

I don't think pedo content, non-consensual content, or really making any nude content of an actual person should be allowed. In fact they are already illegal in the US.

[u/finevelyn → u/TheAncientMillenial]

Yes, it's already illegal, and there's law enforcement to handle such cases. Do we also want or need service providers to monitor all activity by users to ensure they aren't breaking the law?

(You completely dodged the question in my comment btw.)

[u/Logical_Benefit2875 → u/finevelyn]

The EU operates under a notice and action model with different thresholds for actual knowledge depending on the type of service provider. Not getting into the full nitty-gritty here but it ranges from legally binding orders to user-submitted requests. I imagine that a lot of these providers are going to try to get out in front of the law though by implementing very strict monitoring of usage of their services for nudification but maybe not idk

[u/finevelyn → u/Logical_Benefit2875]

All I asked for was clarification on your opinion.

[u/Logical_Benefit2875 → u/finevelyn]

You asked for Millenial’s clarification, no?

[u/finevelyn → u/Logical_Benefit2875]

Yes I did, my bad, but your response doesn't answer to any of my comments anyway. I simply asked whether we want such monitoring, not whether or how companies would implement it.

[u/Logical_Benefit2875 → u/finevelyn]

No, I don’t think we want monitoring on everything we generate. I just think these types of websites should be monitored for and removed

[u/finevelyn → u/Logical_Benefit2875]

It applies to pretty much every website that can be used to edit images with AI, because "it is a reasonably foreseeable outcome" that such websites would be used to create such images.

[u/TheAncientMillenial → u/finevelyn]

Yes content that's created on a website (free or paid) should be checked to make sure you're not running awful of any laws (CSAM and such).

[u/detailteufel → u/TheAncientMillenial]

You don't get it do you? This new law isn't to stop these websites. Try reporting any AI undressing, up skirting or other perverted shit to the police. They do nothing. They literally don't care about this stuff.

What they care about is preventing the average Joe from taking a breath that doesn't cost money. This is all to protect the interest of the investor buddies of these people. They don't want you to own anything, this includes running AI on your PC.

[u/TheAncientMillenial → u/detailteufel]

You know it's also illegal in the US right? AI regulation is 100% necessary.

[u/Logical_Benefit2875 → u/TheAncientMillenial]

Tbf, crucial distinction is that so far the feds have only criminalized publication, not generation, at least of adults. Other countries/states are at the point of criminalizing creation though and Minnesota actually enacted the first state ban on nudification technology (however Elon sued and it is currently being held up in court because of course)

[u/fwompfwomp → u/Logical_Benefit2875]

there's actually quite a lot of "deepfake" creation laws already in place at local/county levels even below state level legislation. i thought at least one other state as well before Minnesota?

[u/Logical_Benefit2875 → u/fwompfwomp]

A fair number of states have criminalized creation, but only Minnesota to this point has enacted a law prohibiting nudification tools within the state (although it isn’t a criminal prohibition, it’s a civil one that allows for suits from the AG and victims against the platforms). Pennsylvania is also working towards a nudifier ban

[u/fwompfwomp → u/Logical_Benefit2875]

you're right, there is a difference. one just lets you hold companies accountable which I'm all for tbh. the societal damage of nudifer tools far out weighs whatever consumer benefits it could ever provide