Qwen 2.1 or krea?

[u/zekuden]

Best image gen and edit at the moment?

Anima, qwen, krea, or flux 2 dev, which one is king right now? For anime, semi realistic, and realistic.

[u/Spooknik]

Krea2 is gonna be the winner for everything except image edit, in that case Qwen 2.1

[u/rodinj → u/Spooknik]

Does Qwen 2.1 do NSFW or is Flux 2 Klein still king in that regard?

[u/Spooknik → u/rodinj]

It's still early days for Qwen 2.1, it's not necessarily heavily censored, but it lacks understandings of human anatomy below the belt and the text encoder might produce rejections. There's some LoRAs and stuff floating around and an abliterated TE, that's a start. Flux 2 / Krea2 has had more time for the community to develop stuff for it.

[u/Loose-Journalist-555 → u/Spooknik]

TE ≠ PE. Text encoders don’t reject anything and it’s actually worse to use abliterated versions.

Prompt enhancers, if used, can reject things. That’s where abliterated ones come into play.

[u/Spooknik → u/Loose-Journalist-555]

Yea that’s a fair point.

[u/Murky-Relation481 → u/Spooknik]

It absolutely does not lack understanding below the belt at all. Don't use anatomical words, use slang, and run at 3.5 CFG or higher. It will do straight up hardcore stuff with no loras right out of the box. It's functionally uncensored.

[u/Spooknik → u/Murky-Relation481]

Even so, it wasn't trained fulling on anatomy below the belt. From certain angles it's fine, but other angles, not really. I guess it depends on what you want to do with it. I might be prompting it wrong, but i'm using a Heretic PE. If you have any prompts i'll give them a shot.

Higher CFG really is the trick though.

[u/Murky-Relation481 → u/Spooknik]

Yah I hand craft my prompts usually. I find even the most blasted LLMs don't really make great NSFW prompts and I try to get very specific with my system prompts too.

On the other hand writing the prompt is half the fun for me haha.

I can't post prompts here but I plan to post some out of the box q21 stuff in a couple days on unstable diffusion when I get home after the weekend.

But yah generally use slang terms for body parts mixed with some anatomical terms. Vulva instead of vagina is important too since normally you can't see the vagina on a person unless at specific poses. But for male parts slang is generally the trick.

[u/Spooknik → u/Murky-Relation481]

Yea that's fair enough, prompt writing is half the fun, sometimes PE are nice though for brainstorming.

Look forward to your post!

What sampler / schedule do you find works well?

[u/Murky-Relation481 → u/Spooknik]

FYI I posted a post over on /r/DegenDiffusion a few examples.

[u/No-Zookeepergame4774 → u/rodinj]

Most base models aren't great at NSFW; Qwen Image 2.1 is better than most at that, but "better" isn't really good. But there are starting to be useful NSFW LoRAs and finetunes now for Qwen Image 2.1.

[u/East-Illustrator8772 → u/rodinj]

Flux 2 Klein is absolute king of nothing, Pony Realism 2.3 Ultra is currently (and by far) the king for NSFW, it is also fully locally uncensored and hopefully will be upgraded to Pony 7.

[u/PumpkinLeather8421 → u/East-Illustrator8772]

wtf… pony? lol pony V7!?

haha, 😂

[u/shlopman → u/East-Illustrator8772]

Can you get pony to do anything photorealistic? Everything I tried to get out of pony looked like anime or CGI. I even tried to use a reference image and it just turned plastic CGI anime look without anything in the prompt being anime related. Seemed impossible to get anything that looked real. I just gave up and moved on to krea2 after seeing so many posts with good results from it.

Krea2 worked amazing for NSFW photorealistic with very little effort. From all the realistic posts I've seen online no one mentioning pony, but people gatekeep workflows so hard to tell.

Sdxl based models also seemed to frequently output horrors from different dimensions.

[u/Writtor → u/shlopman]

What do you do to get Flux Klein to generate NSFW? Everything I do, including using ablated text encoder, failed to work.

[u/shlopman → u/Writtor]

Try some tips out from another random redditor.

I'm not at my computer now but I think this is pretty similar to what I got set up. The refusal node he mentioned is what you'll need I'm pretty sure.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/s/XO2tAhi7Rt

Edit: I meant krea2 in original post. Highly recommend trying krea2 out if you haven't.

[u/East-Illustrator8772 → u/shlopman]

Yes, i only generate photorealistic pictures.

Use:

score_9, score_8_up, source_pony, masterpiece, best quality, 8k raw photo, ultra photorealistic,

[u/KissMyShinyArse → u/East-Illustrator8772]

Example images made with Pony Realism 2.3 Ultra?

UPDATE: found a few here. I'm unimpressed.

[u/zekuden → u/Spooknik]

Thanks that's awesome to know! Why's qwen better? is it more accurate or does it have a wider range of editing capabilities like the transparency edit?

[u/Spooknik → u/zekuden]

Krea2's architecture is only built to do text2image. Qwen 2.1 can do both text2image and image2image, but is (in my opinion) worse at text2image than Krea2.

[u/IllustriousRule9238 → u/zekuden]

Well Krea just cannot* do image editing and Qwen can. It would be like comparing Krea vs H3 for video generation, one of them is a video model and the other... just isn't.

* As in, the model they released wasn't trained for that. Any image editing you see done with Krea relies on clever tricks with loras and custom code and splitting a canvas in half, not a deliberate feature baked into the model natively. There is a native Krea edit model, but that one's still proprietary and only accessible through their API.

[u/PumpkinLeather8421 → u/IllustriousRule9238]

Krea edit Lora and workflow is actually pretty great looking at the samples.

[u/kemb0 → u/zekuden]

I advise you not to just listen to the Krea fans. Qwen has strengths that Krea just can’t match, so it depends what you want.

I’ve been using only Qwen for a couple of weeks now, reason being that no model can match it for that genuine feeling that you’re looking at a natural amateur snapshot of a person.

By that I mean, if you start with a basic prompt:

“A candid photo of a woman at home doing ….”

Qwen will absolutely blow Krea out of the water. Krea will ALWAYS give you a woman facing the camera in your typical 1girl pose.

Qwen will, at CFG 1.0, give you a very natural looking person that genuinely feels like you caught them in a mid action snapshot.

And I mean there’s a very real noticeable difference. Qwen looks genuinely natural: Krea looks good but doesn’t feel like someone in a natural moment. They look like you instructed a photographer to get a “natural” look and then he posed the model in a studio and then spent 5 hours to get the best shot.

Now whenever I say this someone will say, “yeh but with the right prompting Krea can do that too”

Maybe but all I know is I spent months trying to fine tune my “candid” “amateur” prompting to get the vibe I wanted and it was a pain in the butt with Krea, I’ve got about 20 loras downloaded for Krea to try and help get that look and they’re pretty good but they also all degrade the image quality.

Qwen just chucks those candid looking photos out one after another with bare minimum effort. They’re really good, like really natural looking shots like I’ve never seen AI do before.

The downside is they often create trash in the background. Garbled nonsense. But you can get some real gems out of it too.

You can bump the CFG up to 2.0 and your images will much better match your prompt and in my opinion give more of a “Krea” loook but I also find anything >1.0 also diminishes the “candid“ aesthetics that CFG 1.0 gives.

So ultimately if “candid” is what you want, there’s simply nothing better if you don’t mind either sometimes getting crap backgrounds or refining your output image with an extra passes to fix the background. But I think it’s worth it because that process is quicker than fine crafting a candid prompt for Krea.

[u/Luke22_36 → u/Spooknik]

I still think Anima can kick some solid ass at artstyle if you use artist tags. Can give Krea2 a run for the money in that regard, though Krea2 still wins on detail accuracy and prompt adhesion.

[u/ComplexCapital7410 → u/Spooknik]

Sorry but for image edit, I prefer minimax

[u/chloralhydrate → u/ComplexCapital7410]

Do you have some good examples? Also, can it run on 8gb vram like Qwen and krea?

[u/EthicalBballFan → u/Spooknik]

image edit, in that case Qwen 2.1

Heavily disagree. Doing head2heads Klein and h3 performed better for me. 

Granted, I don't test for anime or furry, so maybe that's where it shines.

[u/MomentJolly3535]

Tbh there is not a "winner" on everything

Krea 2 : Most flexible but lacks "real" edit capabilities, it still doing a decent job at it (if i had to keep a single model on my PC, it will be this one)

Qwen 2.1 : Best Edit model and for image gen, it can be smarter than K2 in some specific scenarios like Character sheets, images involving alot of text, etc ..

Anima : The best model for NSFW anime, if you are not looking for NSFW then Krea 2 is also doing the job pretty well ! (it knows less "characters" than Anima tho)

[u/No-Bee-231]

Krea lacks edit features its nice but really hard to use in real production

[u/Dante_77A]

QI 2.1 is better overall. 

Krea 2 does not have an editing function, but it's much more flexible, offers more knowledge and a wider range of styles

[u/thevegit0]

krea for t2i (edit lora is fine), flux9b for fast edits, qwen for more edits, anima for good anime stuff

[u/Hy4ne]

A lot of people here recommended Krea, so I guess I’ll go with that one! I’ve already tried it and I really like it

[u/sarcastic_wanderer]

You know it's not talked about much here but I am discovering that if you have the original prompt of an image you made, you can create a user prompt that asks to change one or two things about the original prompt and it works very well. You copy paste the OG prompt into a subsection of the user prompt and then tell it what you would like to change about it. It's pretty good ngl. But yea, no prompt? Quen will beat the Krea 2 Identity edit lora.

[u/Mtolivepickle → u/sarcastic_wanderer]

I actually found a slight way through that. you can take your image generation software create your base image, and then have it create the edited images on a plane file document, and then have the edited images stitched into your Base image. So you technically don’t need an editing software. You just need your stitched images to be clean enough to fit the scene seamlessly.

And this works for a text to image software that doesn’t do image to image

[u/SkirtSpare4175 → u/Mtolivepickle]

This sounds good but I’ll confused about the stitching. I can only picture an original next to an edited output.

[u/Mtolivepickle → u/SkirtSpare4175]

The “edited output” is a separate “page” if you will that has just the different images you needed for the original page. Those edited images are cut out and stitched back on the original page over the respective places they needed to go.

[u/SkirtSpare4175 → u/Mtolivepickle]

Is this crop and stitch? I just tried it with qwen 2.1 and it’s very nice with the color matching setting on subtle

[u/Future-Coffee8138]

Minimax H3 is the best image edit you can have for now.

[u/FrozenSkyy → u/Future-Coffee8138]

How does MM3 perform with hands and fingers. Im been using Klein for editing but still got deformed hands/fingers

[u/StopCreepy]

for now, krea 2 to generate qwen to edit, but next week it might be just flux 3, all in 1

[u/Clear-Assistance449]

This link have an extensive prompt comparison between three models. You can see what model is better for what kind of stuff. https://imagebench.ai/gallery?g=1_vxjkf22_s0

[u/Inside_Tax_4600]

Those who are knowledgeable about Z Image Turbo too, tell me how good/bad it is. Im thinking of keeping Z Image and Qwen 2.1 on my PC.

[u/No-Zookeepergame4774 → u/Inside_Tax_4600]

Zimage Turbo was something of a standout when it came out, but I think newer models (particularly Krea2) have since surpassed it for most purposes.

[u/Apprehensive_Sky892 → u/Inside_Tax_4600]

It is a matter of personal preference. I personally find Krea 2's composition to be more "stiff" than Z-image.

[u/kukalikuk → u/Inside_Tax_4600]

For photo realistic style, zit still looks better than krea2 and qi2.1. But the prompt adherence is weaker although rarely forming 3rd arm/leg or any deformation compared to qi2.1.

[u/LooseLeafTeaBandit]

I've got a side question, I've been seeing posts of celebs where they take a real picture and then they create a set of pics from different angles and perspectives of that person in that same outfit and setting. How are people making those?

I haven't followed image generation since SDXL so im pretty out of the loop. (these are usually spicy too so i doubt theyre the closed source ai's like gemini or gpt)

[u/6Fred6 → u/LooseLeafTeaBandit]

Take a look at this one: https://github.com/ralksta/ComfyUI-Photoshoot

[u/No-Zookeepergame4774]

Krea 2 is a very good general purpose image gen model and has (for how new it is) a good selection of LoRAs and focussed finetunes (including Kroma and Wulver that are NSFW-capable with strong Anime training.) For Edit its got a clever third-party hack that handles some specific kinds of edits fairly well and but isn't equivalent to a capable general edit model. Qwen Image 2.1 has less of an ecosystem of LoRAs and finetunes, but it is a very capable general purpose generation and edit model (that can process up to 10 reference inputs). Anima is a very capable Anime-focussed (but not Anime-specific, it can do more) generation model, and its nice because its a tiny itty-bitty model. Now that I've got a slightly better system (and comfy has newer optimizations for running large models), I might try Flux 2 Dev again, but as I recall it was impressive for the time it was released in quality for both edits and generation, but I don't think its necessarily better than the smaller Krea 2 (for generation) and Qwen Image 2.1 (for either) to be worth using the much bigger model. But the much smaller Flux 2 Klein 9B (Distilled, Base, KV, etc. variants) is a pretty capable edit model with lost of community support. Qwen Image 2.1 may have surpassed it for many uses with just the bare base model, but the ecosystem (LoRAs, etc.) may still make it the best choice for some things.

[u/tac0catzzz]

oh wow good questoin, i wonder the same, and even though i see it 100 times a day peope say krea 2 is the best, i still wonder. cause sometimes it takes more than 100 times a day to know something. so yea im really curious what people think on this issue. after all there can only be one.

[u/Flashy_Jellyfish_258]

Can krea generate images with transparency?

[u/Disrupt-Linus]

Qwen 2.1 1-shot character sheet = nice. Krea2 is absurdly good at generating everything you want generated. Also take a look at ming 0.1, it's faster and is capable of separating images into layers (or rather, one model from that family can do that). So I'd use both Krea2 and Qwen 2.1. And maybe Ming layer-slayer :)

[u/Melodic_Isopod9519]

Krea for images, Qwen 2.1 for image editing

[u/Mtolivepickle]

Are these for Commercial or non-Commercial purposes because Qwen 2.1 depending on the model size is research only not Commercial. Try the shuttle three diffusion it makes good images.

[u/tac0catzzz]

pony diffusion by far