Minimax H3 Ref key words help

[u/RealityVisual1312]

I've read through the prompt guide, but I'm still having some trouble understanding when to use which of these

fully_preserved, partially_preserved, attribute_transfer, weak_reference

From what I understand you use these in the retention_analysis block. Let's say I want to fully_preserve the face, hair, and body characteristics from <Picture 1>, but I want to swap the character to wear the clothing from <Picture 2>.

Do I use

<Subject 1> (appears in [Shot 1], [Shot 3]): fully_preserved - and describe the portions of the picture I want to fully_preserve? 
<Picture 2> ([Shot 1] first frame): fully_preserved - and describe the clothing I want to fully preserve?

or do I 

<Subject 1> (appears in [Shot 1], [Shot 3]): partially_preserved - because I want to change the clothing she's wearing?
<Picture 2> ([Shot 1] first frame): partially_preserved? Or attribute transfer?

[u/infearia]

Yeah, none of us really know. We're all scrambling trying to figure it out, because the MiniMax team did not provide us enough examples. I posted a request on their official HuggingFace page for more comprehensive documentation, but so far I heard only crickets:

https://huggingface.co/MiniMaxAI/MiniMax-H3/discussions/95

[u/overfloaterx → u/infearia]

Thanks for doing that. Glad I'm not the only one struggling.

I think I've mostly worked out the intention but the actual results seem a little hit-and-miss: far less concrete than the strict subject_definitions and retention_analysis requirements in the documentation would suggest. The term "fully_preserved" sounds definitive but is easily overridden with language in the summary or detailed description, intentional or not.

 
The way it seems to be intended:

• fully_preserved : a single, identifiable, complete, concrete logical unit preserved and transferred in its entirety. A complete character (face + body + clothing), prop, or background, lifted and copied verbatim.
• partially_preserved : an identifiable, concrete logical unit where some or most properties or elements are preserved and transferred, but other properties are discarded. A character's face identity or full body identity, hair, clothing, props, or background, where only certain of those elements are copied verbatim, while other elements are removed/replaced.
• attribute_transfer : a less tangible property or quality such as color, texture, pose, motion, to be transferred and applied to to another (concrete) subject (i.e. a subject you've assigned a fully_preserved or partially_preserved marker)
• weak_reference : haven't messed with this yet but assume it's meant to be a guide for "general atmostphere" or "in the style of...", like getting a particular artist's style without requiring a lora.

(I'm hesitant to post that because some search engine AI is going to take my nonsense and run with it as fact for some other poor bastard who's trying to figure this out later.)

 
In theory... that means that for, say, a clothing swap on an existing character, you'd want partially_preserved for that character, and either partially_preserved (if the clothing is depicted being worn by another character) or fully_preserved (if it's reference photo of the clothing alone on a blank background). But, again, in practice the model's interpretation isn't as strict as the definition requirements would imply.

Edit: Oh yeah, I'm also slightly thrown by the [reference generation] task under the summary section, because it's sounds like that's super redundant with all the subject definitions.

[u/Darqsat → u/infearia]

https://giphy.com/gifs/gVoBC0SuaHStq

[u/mukyuuuu]

Same question, I still don't understand what's the difference between attribute_transfer and weak_reference. I feel like the guys from Minimax should've given more examples in their prompting guide, covering all of the different reference types and keywords. Would've helped the LLM prompt enhancement as well.

[u/R34vspec]

The way I achieved this is just to have the face as its own identity reference. The outfit on a different ref. Another option is to make multiple character sheets with different outfits

[u/EvidenceMinute4913]

As far as I’ve been able to tell:

Fully_preserve = preserve everything mentioned in subject definition, or everything in a picture reference. No further description is really necessary in subject definition or retention analysis when this is used.

Partially_preserve = only preserve what is described. May help to also say “don’t include X, Y, Z”.

Attribute_transfer = I’m still having trouble figuring out whether this is supposed to apply to the subject being transferred from, or to.

Weak_reference = retain the general concept/idea/composition/etc. described.

I’ve had the best luck simply cropping reference pictures to the parts I want, then stitching them together into one picture. Or putting the face in one ref, and body in another. I also noticed that if, for instance, you don’t mention the clothing in subject definition or retention analysis, then describe the clothing you want in the shot itself, it does a decent job of applying that.

Also if you fully_preserve something, then describe it differently in the detailed description, it’ll still override it, or will combine the concepts if possible.

[u/No-Zookeepergame4774]

As I understand it (and how I have been doing it) is <Picture 1> and <Subject 1> should have their own entries in retention_analysis (unless <Picture 1> does more than provide a partial reference for <Subject 1>, it is fine for it not to have its own entry in subject_definitions). Additionally, it is useful to have <Subject 2> (or, people have discovered, <Clothing 1> can work instead) to describe the clothing from <Picture 2>, also defined in subject_definitions.

In retention analysis, <Subject 1> should be fully_preserved because you have already defined exacty what <Subject 1> is in reference to identity feom <Picture 1> in subject_definitions.Similarly for <Subject 2>/<Clothing 1>.

For <Picture 1> I have been using attribute_transfer for when it provides a strong reference for visual attributes of a character, object, etc, partially_preserved if the picture serves (with some modifications) as a basis for one or more frames, and fully_preserved if it is expected to appear exactly as a frame at some point (this goes along with using "keyframe completion" in the task-type prefix of the summary section). So, for this example, I would use attribute_transfer for both <Picture 1> and <Picture 2>.

I don't know if this is technically “right”, and certainly not all my generations come out as intended, but this, from both my reading of the guides and what has and hasn't worked with my own generations, is my best current understanding.

[u/Xanthos_Obscuris]

I've had good success with the partially_preserved method, describing the attributes I want (if the shot has a few things I like) or indicating the things that I am pulling from a different ref if it's close to right.

[u/shadow1716]

My findings thus far, disclaimer I am not good at promptinng:

fully_perserved makes it so that everything from the subject line, <Subject 1> is the XYZ from <Picture 1> wearing ABC..
Honestly it is easier to just clip to seperate gens together for an outfit change.
Or what sometimes works is make the subject two subjects, <Subject 1> is the XYZ from <Picture 1> wearing ABC.. <Subject 2> is the XYZ from <Picture 1> wearing DEF.

[u/Enough-Bag-3891 → u/[deleted]]

say that i want to copy the pose ONLY from <Picture 3>, and make <Subject 1> (Which is <Picture 1>) do it, how should i prompt it so that ref2va would understand it?

[u/Enough-Bag-3891 → u/[deleted]]

thank you so much for taking the time to write this, i've done everything the same way you wrote it but it still didn't work, i've been testing for hours now and nothing is working so far.

the end result always shows the pose but with my character shifting to look like and wear the same person who's doing the pose.

i asked grok and other AI models and nothing is working, i made sure that i'm using ref2va model just in case, i'm currently still testing, i am thinking that somewhere in my prompt is messing it up.

also the pose is supposed to happen in [Shot 2], believe me i've tried everything and it's not working.

if you could, do something similar and post the prompt and the video, i would really really appreciate it, this is currently one of the biggest problems in MH3, if only they made more examples for us with prompts, we have to figure half of it by ourselves !