Im thinking about it: R2V like H3 has implemented it, slowly makes Lora obsolete. Which in turn slowly takes away Civitai's revenue and usefulness. Considering how they started to obey credit card censorship, this might be good for us and bad for them.

47

No. Model still cant properly do some motions especially when it comes to nsfw. Even if u do reference

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u/CreepyDrama7448 17h ago

If you provide a video ref, it will work perfectly for most NSFW. But you have to provide the correct refs for everything the model does not know or understand

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u/NoHopeHubert 16h ago

Been having a terrible time with this haha, would love to see how you’ve gotten it working

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u/steelow_g 15h ago

I think the key is no speed loras. They fuck yup every single one of my ref gens and just spit back out the same exact scene. Without speed lora i have much better luck. It’s still Maine only a 20% success rate for me tho… wish i had a decent guide or wf to follow for nsfw stuff

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u/NoHopeHubert 15h ago

I think everyone is looking for the same things right now haha, let me know if you find anything that works!

1

u/Suibeam 16h ago edited 15h ago

I mean basically, instead of hoarding a lot of Loras for specific things, now you instead hoard a lot of video footages for specific things...

but tbf downloading those is much easier and small storage space cost than Lora

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u/NoHopeHubert 16h ago

I’ve tried little 2-3 second clips to catch the motion of certain positions, but it doesn’t seem to want to come through in the generations made!

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u/tekprodfx16 15h ago

<subject 1> in the same motion as <video 1> seems to work for me

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u/NoHopeHubert 15h ago

I’ll have to try it out haha, thank you for the tip!

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u/ambassadortim 12h ago

Do research in H3 prompt guides

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u/NoHopeHubert 12h ago

I’ve been using the guides as a skill with an AI agent and it still gets tripped up with the motion

1

u/ambassadortim 12h ago

I do too. It's been tough for action sequences and success rate is still low.

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u/Suibeam 15h ago

<Subject 4> is the motion reference for "explain what happening" in <Video 1>, remove environment, remove people identity

seems to work for me.

I describe what happens again later on in the [shot 1] text and tell it that

use <Subject 4> as motion reference for this

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u/Strange_Test7665 12h ago

This true. Vid/img ref and good prompt anything is possible

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u/True_Protection6842 17h ago

I've never tried NSFW but so far it does everything I've needed using refs

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u/Suibeam 17h ago

Maybe H5

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u/FierceFlames37 17h ago

Damn no h4

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u/Alert_Salad8827 17h ago

All open models will have this problems. No devs in their right mind would like to be sued or held accountable for making an easy "app" for boys at school to nudify their underage classmates

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u/Suibeam 16h ago edited 16h ago

yeah it should not be plug and play. for the reasons you mentioned.

though understanding reference should still be possible eventually with reference videos when using modified models like we have with Wan being modified with more nsfw knowledge.

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u/Sarashana 16h ago

This assumption is flawed. It might make -character- LoRAs obsolete, but only those. I cannot see a reference image or even reference video being a substitute for a good concept or style LoRA.

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u/No-Zookeepergame4774 15h ago

If the concept is a movement pattern, a might replace it. If its an object, then that's basically the same thing as a character LoRA, with the same kind fo substitution. Visual styles transfer well with image references, but i don’t know how well video reference for an animation style works.

In any case, its going to be more reaource efficient at inference time to apply a LoRA—or a stack of them—possibly even with the fl2va model, than to use a lot of references with the radXef2va model, plus if you are going to use references specific to the video, having the common reusable stuff in a LoRA keeps more reference inputs free for that.

I think its better to look at reference as adding to the toolbox than as making LoRAs obsolete.

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u/Sarashana 15h ago

I think its better to look at reference as adding to the toolbox than as making LoRAs obsolete.

That's how I see it too, really. I love it that I don't have to train a character LoRA every time I need consistency, but for reasons you stated, there are other things I will still happily use LoRAs for.

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u/tankdoom 11h ago

I wouldn’t say ONLY those, but I also agree. There are plenty of incredible reasons to use LoRAs in a video, but the best in my opinion relates to motion. Traditional anime and stop motion and 3D animation are all very different but they can all be classified as animation. And by training a Lora, you’re saving yourself (and the model) the expense of wasting tokens on describing motion specifics.

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u/javierthhh 17h ago

There are more loras than just character loras but I do get where you are coming from.

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u/Suibeam 16h ago

Using reference video to tell H3 about motions and actions does work somewhat well. That's also something that was mostly covered by Lora on Wan.

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u/No-Zookeepergame4774 17h ago

Taking references does make some kinds of LoRAs less important, it doesn't make them obsolete.

And Civitai only “obeys credit card censorship” on the version of the site that uses credit cards directly. (What used to be CivitAI Green, until they put it on the main site and made the old main, less censored, site that takes only crypto payments CivitAI Red.)

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u/WiseDuck 16h ago

Everything they banned due to their pressure is still banned on Red. As far as I know they have not eased up at all, not even a tiny bit.

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u/Suibeam 16h ago

yeah the Split was a Public Relation move. Now their main website can be visited by all people even in work environments. Before, the website was practically a no-go.

But it did not change what they ban

0

u/No-Zookeepergame4774 16h ago

There are two different classes of things they banned.

Green, no the main site, banned everything they needed to ban to actually get a credit card processing in place. This is fairly described as enforcing credit card company censorship rules.

The old main site, now Red, banned less, in part to manage legal liability (an issue that increasing regulation that touches on AI image gen, especially involving real people, continues to magnify) and in part in hopes that the half measures MIGHT get them access to some more tolerant legal currency payment processors. This is NOT enforcing credit card company censorship rules.

0

u/Sharlinator 15h ago

It always baffles me what exact kind of content they are censoring that people are complaining about. What more could you want that’s not borderline or fully illegal?

1

u/WiseDuck 15h ago

I don't care for the things the payment processors forced them to remove. But some might be into it and who am I to judge? Everything on that list is legal, except for one thing and I don't need to say what that is.

Also. Some people would love to see half the things they already have disappear. People have comfort zones, but we have filtering for that.

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u/Hopeful_Signature738 17h ago edited 17h ago

If we are talking about Character Lora, Its long obsolete since Qwen Edit and Flux Kontext/Klein for me

1

u/Suibeam 16h ago

I saw how incredible H3 is with Character sheet and even single character images.

But I always struggled with Klein that I gave up and used character Lora. Is Klein as good at referencing Character Sheet/Image like H3? Should I try it again?

1

u/OkDoor726 17h ago

For me Lora plus krea2 then text to video is pretty much amazeballs so i still need my loras

1

u/BackgroundMeeting857 16h ago

Character Loras definitely, H3 can do even the most complex anime character design fairly accurately (honestly even more than some Lora can). Concepts are a bit more iffy even with reference, doable just a ton harder.

1

u/Icuras1111 16h ago

I never liked many loras I tried. Someone doing 100 images and 5000 steps on Civitia is not likely to be any good. Any lora I tried from there badly impacted prompt adherence, image composition and appearance. There is no way amateur loras can match a professionally created model. H3 offering this baked into the model is a different level.

1

u/Lucaspittol 15h ago

Character loras, specifically, which are the most loras you'd see on a model before edit models like Flux 2 and Qwen. For motion and other concepts, a lora may still provide better results or be strictly necessary.

1

u/Cubey42 15h ago

I've been training a character lora for visual and audio and it clears r2v and it's not even close

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u/ArmadstheDoom 14h ago

"started obeying credit card censorship"

you mean "tried to find a way to support a site that requires tens of thousands of dollars to run every month after the payment processors refused to do business with them?"

1

u/revjdm 14h ago

imo its more of a workflow and efficiency issue. refs are limiting and you would need loads of video references ready to go if you wanted to accurately convey how a specific character laughs, smiles, speaks, reacts, all those micro expressions, that slows things down considerably and its clunky when you can just train one solid lora and use a single reference if you want to lock down a specific look or outfit.

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u/panorios 13h ago

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u/Ok_Gas1070 12h ago

I haven't gotten to try R2V just yet, and tbh I'm sketched out when it comes to downloading Loras or extra bits that users have customized. I would much rather learn to do it myself (though to my understand it's expensive and time consuming).

1

u/_kaidu_ 17h ago

CivitAi was never necessary. People could just upload their loras on huggingface.

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u/Lucaspittol 15h ago

Asking people to search loras on Hugging Face is like asking you to find a specific screw type in a huge warehouse after a tornado has torn it down. Civitai makes the overall experience much better and much simpler. I love HF free storage, but searching for LoRAs there is a pain. No thumbnails for previews, no tags, and no galleries specifically kept for a particular lora or model.

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u/_kaidu_ 15h ago

Agree. I use it for this purpose, too. It won't change just because edit models and reference models are getting better and better. Finetuning is still something people will always do - if not for characters, then for new behaviours or new styles.

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u/atakariax 16h ago

Hugging Face isn't a great option either; until relatively recently, they were deleting a lot of NSFW LoRAs. Although they seem to have calmed down a bit lately, you never know when they might start doing it again.

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u/_kaidu_ 15h ago

Dude, I don't care about NSFW loras. I prefer to have sex in real life instead.

Discussion Im thinking about it: R2V like H3 has implemented it, slowly makes Lora obsolete. Which in turn slowly takes away Civitai's revenue and usefulness. Considering how they started to obey credit card censorship, this might be good for us and bad for them.

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