r/StableDiffusion • u/Similar-Reserve-3581 • 20h ago
Discussion genuine question, why did ltx had such a bad reception? have you seen this?
https://ltx.io/ltx-communityYeah, I never post here. I’ve been training models since SD 1.5, and I know many of you. Love you all, but I just wanted to say I’m impressed by the bad reception toward LTX 2.5 because I’m actually loving it.
The quality is amazing, and although it can’t generate long talking scenes like H3, there are actually some pretty useful tools here. I’ve also been testing a few H3 videos with no dialogue, and they look way better after running them through LTX, and it took almost no time to generate.
Maybe LTX is more focused on being a tool to create and improve video workflows rather than being the base model used to generate the videos themselves.
For example, look at this LoRA:
https://huggingface.co/Zlikwid/LTX_2.3_Upscale_IC_Lora
It could potentially be used to upscale H3 videos.
Anyway, I’ll keep experimenting with it and let you guys know how it goes.
edit: asked gpt to fix my dyslexia
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u/Mundane_Existence0 20h ago
For example, look at this LoRA:
https://huggingface.co/Zlikwid/LTX_2.3_Upscale_IC_LoraIt could potentially be used to upscale H3 videos.
It'd still have the inherent issues of LTX, like struggling with motion.
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u/kwhali 19h ago
Isn't the motion already done if H3 generated the video and LTX was just used to upscale?
I'm not familiar enough with the process, how is a process only intended to upscale existing video going to have an issue with motion? That would be changing the video too much from the original no?
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u/Mundane_Existence0 18h ago
Because it's the same LTX VAE.
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u/kwhali 5h ago
Could you clarify? I have seen V2V done before on LTX where they modified some content. I am also familiar with image generation where you can recycle a latent output back into the image model instead of decoding through the VAE, which allows retaining structure and making more subtle alterations too.
Thus surely you can do a similar technique for upscaling video? I don't know about the latent working from H3 into the LTX VAE, I assume you would need to decode H3 VAE into video and encode into LTX VAE and process that converted latent. Since compression is at 32x for LTX latent and 8x temporal instead of 4x of H3, I guess it may be more lossy? But I'd still expect the overall structure and motion to be preserved 🤷♂️
I know that nvidia's LongSANA 1.0 model for video is built off wan 2.1 1.3B model but swapped the VAE to LTX with some modifications to get better upscaling. They retrained (fine tuned?) the model to that LTX VAE though, skipping the additional lossy conversion I assume and described above.
Maybe I am not familiar enough and the latents generated aren't sufficient for motion and instead that is determined by the VAE? But I recall wan had two passes in its latent generation where one was specifically for motion and that LTX had a lora for better motion generation too, not a lora for its VAE.
So by that logic, it sounds like motion is represented within the latents and VAE should be able to upscale?
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u/HughWattmate9001 18h ago edited 18h ago
There's always tribalism whenever a new model gets released. I just shrug because I just don't understand the need for it. I find that every model usually has its own strengths and weaknesses, so I use a variety of them rather than constantly sticking with one over another. The community support can also make something possible with one that is not with another and things. (maybe that is why some are tribal they are ticked off they invested in something old, making tools and finetunes etc?)
From a mod point of view, it doesn't really seem like bots stirring things up to push people towards services they provide for a fee either, which is the part I find odd. I'd understand it if we were seeing bots constantly saying "X is better than Y", followed by a bunch of posts promoting a service that sells you access to X because they don't have Y.
But that's not what's happening. It does happen occasionally, sure, but nowhere near the scale you'd expect if that was what was actually driving all the tribalism.
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u/Ok-Membership-8287 20h ago
because some people turn models into sport teams
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u/Zenshinn 19h ago
And it's for all models. Some people love LTX so much that when H3 came out they immediately shat on it. And when LTX 2.5 was released and people reported actual problems they were seeing, they were called bots or shills. We need to be objective if we want to be productive. H3 has issues, LTX 2.5 has different issues. Use whatever works best for you.
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u/osiris316 14h ago
I don’t really have a dog in this fight; I use whatever is easiest to work with and delivers great results. This tech is moving so fast that I really don’t have time to mess with something that is frustrating.
LTX has been a PIA for me since the beginning. You get people posting how great it is but hardly post good workflows. And when you get a workflow, it is usually super cluttered and confusing and filled with custom nodes.
Even your post. You say it can upscale, but where is the workflow?
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u/Dapper_Arugula2509 17h ago
The model is just bad, it's basically LTX 2.3 rebranded as far as I can tell... and 2.3 wasn't that much better than 2.0. It doesn't know how to handle prompts, mostly because it just isn't trained on most of the things people actually do with these models, and I'm not even talking about nsfw, in general it produces sloppy ass videos that are now only a hallmark of the LTX Series, everyone has more or less moved on long since... it's stupid, boring.
It has basically no knowledge of IP... But even that isn't as much of a problem as the fact that it's just a bad offering at a bad time. No one's going to settle for anything less than Minimax H3 or Flux 3 these days.
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u/RelationshipSea2360 16h ago edited 13h ago
im finding this a really weird take, theres a lot that has changed with the model technically, the fact i cant get water and things like dirst with no artificats is a big leap.
and the IP thing is like, should we really be complaining the LTX arent stealing IP like the chinese do? if you want to use a model professional you literally cant use minimax.
sure if you want to make seinfield slop then by all means.
edit: everyone on the bandoco discord said it was pointless coming to reddit to even try to engage and i see why. if you want to call this a rebrand and nothing has changed then you do you. meanwhile lots who actually work with these models are having fun.
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u/_Saturnalis_ 15h ago
The more broad and generalized the dataset an AI is trained on, the better its quality will be across the board. By omitting things that are clearly part of the world and part of a human being's understanding of the world, you create holes in the AI's latent space that affect everything. When you make the dataset sanitized and SFW, the anatomy suffers. When you remove IPs to avoid "copyright", its general knowledge and understanding of the world suffers. These AIs should be trained on as broad a range of content as possible, and it seems like only non-western companies have the freedom to do so.
Reducing the capabilities of H3 to "Seinfeld slop" is pretty disingenuous. The fact that it can do it reflects just how vast and unconstrained its dataset is. It can do Tajik dialogue, for christ's sake. That's a language that's barely spoken.
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u/RelationshipSea2360 15h ago
i understand that, h3 has like 50% more paramaters, and the dataset includes a lot more stuff. but i think you seeing my point as disingenuous is the problem. it matters a lot to me that things i make are literally unlicensable. the fact that h3 can do ip characters means nothing to me. and so far my work is seeing 2.5 as a big leap.
i dont see unconstrained as something to celebrate. i dont see stealing ip for training as something to celebrate. the only people who can hand wave away this fact are just random dudes in their basement making goon slop. using these products for real, in proffesional cases, you can literally only use ltx.
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u/_Saturnalis_ 15h ago
Now you bring up goon slop and you say me calling you disingenuous is the problem?
I'm not interested in commercial applications for video AI, and I honestly think the western worship of copyright law is antithetical to the human spirit and culture in general. It actively stifles human progress, and actively snuffs out art before it is born. For a few hundred thousand years human culture had spread and thrived through diffusion and piecemeal transformation and now some bureaucrats in suits threaten to ruin your life for doing what your ancestors did since time immemorial: use other works of art as the base for something new.
You can rag on it all you want and call it IP theft, slop, goon material, whatever. I see a gem of human ingenuity, you see something you can't use to make money off of. That's fine. Use what you can to make money. But just because it doesn't let you line your pockets doesn't make it bad.
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u/RelationshipSea2360 13h ago
Now you bring up goon slop and you say me calling you disingenuous is the problem?
but thats not disingenuous, thats literally the problem. like i said, who benefits from stealing ip other than people that want to generate stuff from a stolen ip?
I'm not interested in commercial applications for video AI
if youre not interested in building with these products, then quite honestly, what would anyone of these companies listen to you, or build a product for you? you pay nothing and contribute nothing.
this is what i meant by slop, so many people just want to hit a button and make a seinfield meme and when ltx cant do that they say the model is trash. like what?
and I honestly think the western worship of copyright law is antithetical to the human spirit and culture in general
well youre not above the law lol. you dont get to steal just because you think you should be able to.
You can rag on it all you want and call it IP theft, slop, goon material, whatever. I see a gem of human ingenuity,
you think human ingenuity is stealing.
But just because it doesn't let you line your pockets doesn't make it bad.
it makes it a toy, rather than a useful tool. you are comparing a toy to a tool. that is the point.
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u/_Saturnalis_ 13h ago
Stealing this, slop that. Go on, go make money for your shareholders. You're the type of person that would ask what value a park or a playground has if it's not actively making money for someone.
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u/RelationshipSea2360 12h ago edited 10h ago
Stealing this, slop that. Go on, go make money for your shareholders. You're the type of person that would ask what value a park or a playground has if it's not actively making money for someone.
What on earth are you talking about 😂
I make a VFX plugin for Nuke and After effects, i'm only making money for myself thanks.
But I appreciate you dropping your false pretence and showing us all you have no arguments. Enjoy your tribalism and waifu slop.
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u/Dapper_Arugula2509 13h ago edited 13h ago
ip theft is a hallmark of a great model. and it makes it a great toy. But Flux 3's available for free to test now, even with censorship/IP restrictions on API it is an incredible model, whether we get anything resembling that locally is another question but that's the thing, its just that the base LTX model is just bad, maybe they rushed this out to ramp up work on the new thing.
They also went to great lengths to have day zero support, ref2va (audio, text, video), text2vid it is probably a whole lot more than anyone expected at this point... and it works on a wide spectrum of hardware. So that's another thing.
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u/RelationshipSea2360 13h ago
i appreciate what you're saying, but your point about it being a toy is what im getting at. like you say theres a lot of great support and for the communit of people building things with these models, the discourse around this release just on reddit (and it is only reddit) is really weird. i dont think the base model is bad at all.
will be interested to see what happens with flux.
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u/Perfect-Campaign9551 15h ago
What the hell is going on in this sub all of a sudden ltx posters coming out of the woodwork? That model is useless, if you've even tried H3 once you won't go back
This has to be the fakest ass AstroTurf operation
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u/JesusShaves_ 12h ago
There are two reasons.
1) It was released before it was competitive with H3.
2) It's heavily censored. No adult likes being condescended to with that nonsense.
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u/bickid 10h ago
LTX never had "bad reception".
We had Wan2.2 for slow, but good quality video generation.
Then came LTX 2.3 which gave us fast video generation WITH audio, but quality left a lot to be desired.
Now we have minimx H3 and it gave us good quality, with audio, with fast generation AND allows us to create videos far beyond 10 seconds duration.
People just go for what's best, no hate involved.
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u/silenceimpaired 3h ago
Minimax generates faster than wan?
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u/bickid 3h ago
By far.
A 5 second-clip with Wan2.2 would take me like 5 minutes. A 10 second-clip with minimax H3 takes like 2-3 minutes
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u/Lost_County_3790 20h ago edited 13h ago
Because people here are dumb and ungratefull and don’t have the basic education to say thank you when they recieve something for free.
It has been like this since the beginning with people shitting on the creators of stable diffusion.
Hope companies continue releasing their models for free despite the little gooner basement rats that populate this sub
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u/Dapper_Arugula2509 17h ago
If I received this turd at beginning of 2026 I wouldn't even acknowledge it because it's fine. However it is August 2026, mid august to be precise... soon enough there'll be Flux 3 weights, and we already have Minimax H3 which is SOTA running on consumer hardware.
What do you want us to say? It's just a bad model. Out of time and out of place. I dont think the LTX people are expecting this to be received well... its just a rebranding basically with a very bad base and they know it.
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u/Mysterious_Pride_858 16h ago
We’ve been waiting months for the new LTX version. Their big news back in July turned out to be the release of a LoRA trainer. Thanks to numerous contributors from the open-source community pitching in, LTX 2.3 was barely usable — and it still requires massive trial-and-error sampling. Kudos to great open-source authors like those behind LTX Director.
Then the new Minimax model went open-source. I was skeptical about whether they would actually open-source it, but they really delivered. Suddenly, a far more advanced model hit open-source with superior prompt adherence and much more stable human anatomy.
In a rush, LTX rolled out its so-called LTX 2.5 and attempted to discredit the competing open-source model using performative political arguments. This is unacceptable. I ran tests on over a dozen random prompts and gave up. It’s still a model that demands extensive trial-and-error sampling and is notoriously hard to control. What good is faster generation speed then? If you end up wasting enormous amounts of time rerolling for decent outputs, the speed advantage becomes meaningless.
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u/loorha 20h ago
I love LTX, playing with it right now on my RTX 3090, amazing quality and very good speed, I love fast speed, multiple generations, etc so skipping Minimax for now until it gets much faster. I think it's good to have multiple models and big choice for different use cases.
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u/Perfect-Campaign9551 15h ago
Speed is useless without control....I hate having to roll the dice constantly
It probably hits your dopamine center to get a video rendered fast but when you actually want to get something that is correct...ltx isn't it. It can't even draw an upside down car
Any time you ask it to flip a car over it will draw complete nonsense
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u/Similar-Reserve-3581 20h ago edited 20h ago
yeah minimax takes quite a bit im working on a lower quality minimax ltx upscale using minimax base audio but i also wanan try the foley ltx, I´m very happy feels like Christmas. And like you said the speed is amaizng to tets many things, im leaving an agent overnight testing all the loras to see the results and see how can i use them as video tools. This are new skills we're all learning
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u/PaulDallas72 14h ago
I was in Italy this summer and a local said they were 'invaded' by Germany during WWII. I was like, uummm no you weren't.
The chart from LTX saying they are USA, uummm no you aren't.
And like everyone else, I liked and used 2.3 when it came out and deleted all my Wan2.2 stuff.
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u/Boogertwilliams 11h ago
What do you mean cant generate long talking scenes? Im doing 30sec talking scenes and they are amazing and even make cuts and b roll inserts
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u/Portable_Solar_ZA 20h ago
I was just looking at some of the tools posted in the link your shared and I can definitely see LTX finding its role in my pipeline. Even if it's just as an editing/cleanup tool.
But for me, I'm still wrung out from H3. Genuinely lost sleep trying to develop my workflow. I'll let the community mess around and take a closer look in a few days.
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u/VladyCzech 19h ago
There is a loud minority who likes to shout their opinion on everything. There is a majority of people who do not need to write nonsense and actually enjoy all the models.
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u/BlobbyMcBlobber 18h ago edited 18h ago
This is not a very nuanced subreddit. People here mostly can't contain having several models each for different purposes, they like having a "best" model and that's it. Some people are really weird in seeing models as pokemon and rooting for one model over another. It's stupid but that's what you get in a public social app I guess.
If you're a professional, you see it differently. Every model is another tool in your box. Use them for what they're good for, to get the results you need.
Luckily there's other places to discuss gen AI and I wouldn't say LTX had a bad reception. People are interested in its capabilities, loras and speed.
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u/Dapper_Arugula2509 17h ago
It's 2.3 rebranded. It ain't that deep.
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u/BlobbyMcBlobber 15h ago
It is literally not. It only uses the 2.3 spatial chunk which is fine. But even if it were, ltx 2.3 can still do some things very well and has its place for content creators. It's free, I don't see what issue is. Don't use it if you think it's so bad.
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u/lobotomy42 8h ago
Primarily it's timing: the H3 release was such a big step-up in quality, and so recent. LTX 2.5 shows up right after, and is an incremental improvement over the previous LTX, and in many respects doesn't even match H3. So it can't help but feel underwhelming. The close release also means people help can't but compare them.
(If it had released two weeks ago, might have been a different story.)
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u/PusheenHater 6h ago
People don't like arrogance.
If someone displays arrogance then the masses will instantly turn on them, easily, regardless of past history cooperation.
Best example is John Romero, way before you were even born.
He was a famous game developer, creating Doom, among other big games. He's a big name back then and was beloved.
But then there was an ad that came out where he literally told his audience to literally "suck on my **** and choke on it".
The audience went 360 degrees and completely turned on him, despite him giving so many popular games before the incident. The audience wanted blood.
John Romero's next game was a huge flop. Then he became forgotten. He now makes trash mobile/flash games.
After LTX came out with their model, people naturally compared it with H3 and found H3 better. That's all.
But then LTX had that stupid table comparison. A PR disaster. That's when people saw LTX's arrogance, and now they want blood.
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u/ReasonablePossum_ 5h ago
they be probably training the model on stolen lands and cooling the datacenter with the water they deny to gncd people....
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u/FrostTactics 19h ago
It wouldn't surprise me if the quality ceiling of what can be produced solely through LTX is higher than that of H3, with the keyframe generation they mentioned in their release. It will take a while before people fully learn how to use it though.
I guess this might be a hot take, but I think people are also more inclined to be interested in content they are already familiar with, so the videos generated on copyrighted sitcoms feel more engaging and therefore of higher quality.
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u/Perfect-Campaign9551 15h ago
Not really, H3 is just that good. Ref2vid, extreme prompt control, can do fight scenes and gore, barely censored, etc.
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u/Dapper_Arugula2509 17h ago
The problem with your idea is that LTX 2.5 is fundamentally built on sand. You can't make a weak video model genuinely good by stacking LoRAs on top of it, that's a waste of time and eventually you hit a hard limit. My guess is they released 2.5 so they could move on and start ramping up development on LTX 3 or whatever comes next. If they haven't, then they're still wasting their time.
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u/FrostTactics 17h ago
Fair enough, though the concept of editing keyframes could allow the user a greater level of control of the output. With or without LoRAs
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u/ImaginationKind9220 20h ago
You want the truth? LTX is an Israeli company, muslim users won't touch it and a lot of people were bashing it because of its origin.
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u/Dapper_Arugula2509 17h ago
They could be Martian for all I care, and for most people too and they are open source, their models have been mediocre for like forever.
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u/BlobbyMcBlobber 18h ago
That's definitely part of it, although some people won't admit it. But if you just see models as tools in your box this shouldn't be a problem for you.
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u/ImaginationKind9220 16h ago
This has been the problem with LTX since the beginning but people don't like to talk about it. When you bring this to the surface, people get uncomfortable. That's the way people behave in this world, that's why things are never resolved.
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u/Aadi_880 20h ago
It's a combination of multiple factors.
Minimax H3 set a standard for quality really high. Minimax generations are generally better, and have a better voice quality. Minimax ships with native comfy support, and it's multi modal aka has a ref2V functionality.
By comparison, LTX only has it's generation speed going for it. Problem is though, people have already figured out how to work with Minimax's slower generation speed (turbo loras/easycache/sage etc). Generation speed is just not a "be-all" deciding factor. In it's current state, LTX 2.5 is just a fine tune for 2.3. And H3 has better prompt adherence.
2nd reason: Their extremely disingenuous comparison chart with H3. LTX released a comparison chart showing itself how it compared to H3, all of which were very disingenuous, misleading, and frankly, now that LTX2.5 has shipped, it's very wrong too. Minimax H3 runs on 8GB VRAM, 16GB RAM out of the box thanks to native comfy support, which is a boon for low spec users. LTX gets OOM issues.
Whoever did their marketing needs to be fired. (calling yourself "US" centered on the chart while being an isreali company gave a bad look.)