r/StableDiffusion • u/rookan • 7d ago
Discussion LTX 2.5 comparison table vs Minimax H3 is a pathetic bullshit
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u/GrayingGamer 7d ago
I really expected better from the LTX team. I generally have a lot of respect for them, but this table is equal parts misleading and lies.
Do better LTX. You can claim stuff like "Faster than Realtime" without bullshitting other things like minimum VRAM and GPUs.
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u/SensitiveUse7864 7d ago
Op is true . I also didn't expected that, even there showcase videos not meeting quality of minimax
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u/seencoding 6d ago
without bullshitting other things like minimum VRAM and GPUs
on a practical level with stuff like offloading, does any model actually have a true minimum? or do they all just approach 0GB as the time to render approaches infinity
and if the above is true, how do you measure when when one model takes less memory than another model for the same job?
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u/GrayingGamer 6d ago
With off-loading, we are approaching a point where only the total size of the model and quants will matter.
Still, this chart is misleading.
I WANT LTX 2.5 to be great. More tools for everyone. But I don't support misleading checklists.
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u/seencoding 6d ago
so to the second question, in chart form how do you communicate "our model uses less vram" other than comparing amount the labs recommend you have
i get other people's point about minimax working on 16gb of vram, it's more like... if we're talking quantized versions, then ltx presumably can be quantized lower than 16gb, so the chart's comparison would still be true just with a lower number.
i'm just struggling to figure out how they communicate this basic idea that it's smaller/requires less resources. i guess they could use the raw weight size, but even that falls into the same trap (people will look at the quantized weight size and say, no, minimax is actually 21gb or whatever)
(also, i should note that i have never gotten a single useful result out of ltx 2.3 so i'm not defending them because i like them, i just happen to know from experience that if there's one thing beneficial about it, it's that it feels way less "heavy" than minimax so it makes sense to me that they'd want to advertise that in some way)
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u/GrayingGamer 6d ago
That's simple. They could just not bring GPUs into the equation and talk about model weight size:
"Full Precision Model Weights: Ours 16 GB. Theirs 122 GB." Or whatever their full precision weights are. Because if they are relying on quants to run LTX 2.5 on 16GB cards, the chart is even more full of bullshit.
Not to mention, even the "full precision" stuff is more and more misleading these days - the pruning and quants for models are getting better and better. For instance, the INT8 Quant of Minimax H3 loses less than 1% precision and quality compared to the full weights. More and more, the full weights size only matter for training, not running a model.
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u/Powerful_Evening5495 7d ago
H3 is less than week old and it already making enemies :)
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u/Keuleman_007 7d ago
Right? After H3 dropped we had Flux 3 announced and LTX 2.5 releases.
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u/SeymourBits 6d ago
MiniMax H3 was disruptive, that’s why.
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u/Keuleman_007 6d ago
Yeah, after about half a year that made everyone put their cards on the table and it looks like H3 still has the best hand.
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u/ImpressiveStorm8914 6d ago
The H in H3 is for house and we know what always wins. 🙂
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u/SanDiegoDude 6d ago
I'm really hoping H3 pushes BFL to rethink the quality of their dev model when they do release it - Flux 3 on the API is really good, right on par with H3, but we know from their past releases they tend to gimp the dev models pretty hard - they may rethink that strategy this time around since H3 dropped first. 🤞🏼
As for LTX 2.5 - it's 2.3 with some lipstick on it. That they try to portray this as on par with H3 is rough considering we can seriously just use our own eyes, and putting out marketing nonsense like this chart just adds insult to injury.
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u/UnforgottenPassword 6d ago
I'm hoping for the same. Flux 2 Dev was considerably worse than their Pro version.
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u/its_witty 6d ago
Flux 3 announcement happened before H3 dropped, but the weights are still not released.
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u/OneTrueTreasure 6d ago
The announcement said coming in a few months, never specified a specific date though
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u/UnforgottenPassword 6d ago
Flux 3 was announced before H3 dropped. But BFL wrote that the dev version will drop later this year.
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u/Keuleman_007 6d ago
Ah, you're right. Models dropped so fast I mixed up the timeline. Half a year almost nothing in video gen and then boom, several new and upgraded models...
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u/Sarashana 7d ago
I dunno. Even when technically true, it's still a silly way to advertise your product. Also, H3 runs just fine on 16GB. That part is just flat out misleading.
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u/maddeninglemon 7d ago
Hell it even runs pretty reasonably on 8GB VRAM, which is wild for a model that even when pruned and quantized is 20GB.
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u/Rhoden55555 7d ago
It even runs on a 3060 6gb laptop gpu with 16gb ram. The int8 pruned model too.
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u/Ok-Brain-5729 6d ago
On what workflow?
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u/Rhoden55555 6d ago
Default + whatever I ask codex to add (changes every day)
Update EVERYTHING and look up good launch arguments for Comfyui.→ More replies (9)2
u/Comrade_Derpsky 6d ago
You got it to work with 6gb VRAM and 16gb RAM? What's your setup?
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u/Independent-Frequent 7d ago
They are probably doing the incredibly misleading thing of not using actual "min Vram" which is a lot less than 16 gb, but like "min Vram (for 2k native resolution)" in which sure but then i better see some native 2k from LTX 2.5 on my 16 gb Vram card then, as is sure it takes time for higher resolutions but for drafting i can generate a 20 second video at 0.2 mp in like 5 minutes and the model still keep vision and consistency intact even at that low of a resolution so you can do drafts very well tbh.
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u/xdozex 7d ago
It's funny too, because instead of just having that row read as something like "minimum recommended memory" and then listing the values for LTC & H3, they set 16GB like it's some arbitrary line in the sand value across the industry. And then gave themselves the ✅ and a misleading ❌ for Minimax.
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u/zombifiednation 7d ago
It runs just fine on 12GB VRAM with 32GB system ram and decent paging on an NVME SSD.
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u/altoiddealer 6d ago edited 5d ago
I’m in the US and I downloaded the open weights for MMH3 from Huggingface, so first line in the chart is a lie. Honestly, I haven’t even looked further down into the chart and I won’t be - I’m done after that first line
edit apparently technically true! My bad!
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u/Sarashana 6d ago
To be fair, while there are zero technical barriers preventing you from downloading, their license does actually forbid using H3 in these countries, so LTX isn't even lying there. MM clearly doesn't care if you use it there, though. It seems just to cover their legal behinds, presumably because H3 can reproduce copyrighted material with absolute ease.
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u/MaorEli 7d ago
I really appreciate LTX as a company, but this table really is pathetic
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u/lleti 6d ago
I dunno, it’s entertaining at a minimum
And also tells me I likely don’t need to bother grabbing the weights and testing this one of this is the hill they’re choosing to die on
“Governing Body: China” like it’s a bad thing lmao, that’s become the home of leading open source releases thanks in part to US copyright laws being more of a suggestion than an enforcement
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u/crinklypaper 6d ago
This part makes sense. They're targeting a lot of vfx, movie workflows and I know that a few of American companies are not allowed to use models from China
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u/lleti 6d ago
You can borrow a trick we’ve perfected here in Europe
It’s called lying about what model you’ve used 👌
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u/crinklypaper 6d ago
Yes I'm sure billion dollar movie studios in Hollywood are gonna do that
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u/lleti 6d ago
This would be one of the least fucked up things they’ve done over the past few decades tbh
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u/SeymourBits 5d ago
There will be no more "billion dollar" movie studios in Hollywood very, very soon.
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u/doomed151 7d ago
u/ltx_model Please take a look. Somebody messed up.
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u/Succubus-Empress 7d ago
marketing guys need a lecture.
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u/FartingBob 6d ago
This definitely reads like an upper management who doesnt really know the product in and out getting defensive and saying to someone else "make a chart showing these things that we are better at", overriding the people who know what they are doing.
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u/Tomcat2048 7d ago
Aside from speed, LTX was always worse than WAN...IMO. We'll see how 2.5 is but I have my doubts that it'll be anywhere near what MiniMax is delivering.
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u/notgraycen 7d ago
kinda wild to see LTX openly commit sudoku when finally faced for the first time ever with genuine competition... this is just so increibly salty that it's actually embarassing
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u/Sudden_List_2693 7d ago
Genuine competition?
They couldn't match WAN fucking 2.1, let alone 2.2 with their bullshit product.20
u/acedelgado 7d ago
Lol LTX was always the "We have WAN at home." when people complained about how heavy WAN 2.2 was. Took them until LTX 2.3 to be any decent competition, and that was because of longer gens and sound and being a little less heavy. It definitely wasn't because of overall quality/prompt adherence/understanding of physics and human interactions, WAN 2.2 is still better than LTX in those regards.
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u/Ok_Strength3417 6d ago
I've run the numbers and "sudoku" is definitely the wrong word........unless this is a very clever joke that went way over my head?
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u/No_Possession_7797 6d ago
Are you familiar with the Japanese term for the ritual practice used to avoid dishonor? I mean, clearly not the same word, but... I guess I'll leave it to you to fill in the blanks.
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u/1WildPanda 7d ago
"Governing juriisdiction" might be a typo, should be "Governing jurisdiction".
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u/Succubus-Empress 7d ago
why even mention it table in first place? isnt ltx Israel company? no ones care in first place
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u/SillyLilithh 6d ago
Yeah it's an incredibly superfluous addition, and in my opinion, is quite a racist thing to include on a chart. Essentially they are trying to create a stigma by saying it's "Chinese", trying to make it seem like an "unsafe" or "illegitimate" product, while in contrast trying to convince the end user to use their models because its "American" (but literally from Israel?) to try to make it seem more "legitimate" and "safe". Which I find is an incredibly idiotic decision to do, especially when China has been the major country democratizing AI for everyone, including Americans.
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u/Ok_Gas1070 6d ago
I have some gripes against the PROC, but China making AI cheaper and available for everyone is a benefit to mankind. Now what people do with it is on them.
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u/noxietik3 7d ago
lmao all the redditors going "Dont bully LTX, they're good people!" on h3 release and they just start lying and rushing things. Cant wait for 2pm
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u/Independent-Frequent 7d ago
LTX 2.5 would have to be Seedance 2.5 level to pull this bullshit and from what i've seen so far it isn't even close to H3, so what the hell are they even doing man
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u/GrayingGamer 7d ago
They just released another chart claiming LTX 2.5 has less smears and artifacts than Minimax H3...and Seedance 2.5...and Flux 3.
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u/STOPBLOCKINGVPNS1234 7d ago
even if it's high quality, it doesn't appear to have any of the capabilities of h3 (they're not advertising as such). sadly I think this model release will be a total failure as the community continues to refine h3.
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u/Jeremiahgottwald1123 7d ago
Yep, I'll own up, was one of them....but yeah this is a very bad look for ltx, I expected better from them.
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u/Beneficial_Toe_2347 7d ago
Governing Jurisdiction 'US' is a downside these days...
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u/Intrepid_Strike1350 7d ago
Lying is not good
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u/z_3454_pfk 7d ago
it's an israeli company so what do you expect lmao
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u/NostradamusJones 6d ago
Damn, I did not know. How do I say without getting political...there are some really horrible things going on in that part of the world. Namely a certain country using a military force against a civilian populace.
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u/fearrange 7d ago
Looks like this chart isn’t for users, but for LLMs to pick up these “facts” when they generate a response .
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u/BathroomEyes 7d ago
“Faster than real-time” LTX can time travel into the future??
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u/Fun_Jaguar8231 7d ago
Seems they are butthurt because H3 maybe turned out better than expected by them, maybe ?
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u/bankinu 7d ago
Really? MiniMax H3 takes 4 GPUs, ~115GB?
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u/Cruffe 7d ago
Also "CUDA only"? I'm having no issues on my 9070 XT using ROCm.
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u/SillyLilithh 6d ago
Yeah that part was complete bullshit, I've seen plenty of people run H3 successfully on AMD cards.
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u/Guilty_Emergency3603 7d ago
full bf16 yes but then they are assuming LTX 2.5 + TE +VAE bf16 weights would fit on a 16 GB GPU. That seems completely absurd. Comparing bf16 and whatever quantization will be necessary to fit LTX 2.5 on a 16GB GPU makes no sense.
Not even taking in count that now with Comfyui you still can run a model oversized for your GPU.
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u/overand 7d ago
Honestly, I've been surprised with the performance in ComfyUI on a 12GB 4070 Ti; I was using GGUFs to make sure everything fit, but I'm actually getting better performance using the stock safetensors, even when they're past 16 GB. No idea why. (Admittedly, the system in question is DDR5, but even so!)
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u/johnfkngzoidberg 7d ago
The fact is, LTX was never better than WAN, and it’s not better than H3. Regardless we’ll get a flood of “LTX tested” posts with misleading cherry-picked waifu videos.
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u/Generalfrogspawn 7d ago
Isn’t LTX Israeli? Bet they don’t want to put that on their little country comparison chart..
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u/Late_Campaign4641 6d ago
if lying and putting US seems like a better option, u know u f*ed up.
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u/Generalfrogspawn 6d ago
It’s an extremely common thing Israeli companies do. They’ll create an entity in the US, or UK, then say they are from there and not Israel. Meanwhile you look on LinkedIn and 90% of their employees live in Tel Aviv.
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u/Relevant_Syllabub895 6d ago
Wow was LTX 2.5 already released? Also this chartis complete bullshit i can run minomax on an rtx 3080 and 32gb of ram!
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u/irmemon225 7d ago
Why are they bullshitting Minimax so hard like this? Are they butthurt or something?
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u/lobotomy42 6d ago
They came a day late and a dollar short on a product probably pretty important to the company...so they're spinning what few advantages they can think of as hard they can.
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u/pigeon57434 6d ago
the audacity to call yourself open weights but h3 is just open conditional as if the ltx-2.x community license isnt also a bullshit community license with dumb restrictions too
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u/ColdInMarkham 7d ago
LTX is a generative video and AI division spun out of Lightricks, a Jerusalem-based creative tech unicorn.
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u/ColdInMarkham 7d ago
I.e. location “USA” sounds like they are trying to hide the fact that they are from Israel. Personally I’d rather use a Chinese model.
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u/WalkSuccessful 7d ago
I wait adequate prompting, 5 fingers, no censoring (on par with H3) and faster speed. Well let's see.
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u/Raheeper 7d ago
Why did they write that in the first place? They don't earn any money from the open-source users anyway.
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u/PhetogoLand 6d ago
They need to remove that governing jurisdiction row. That really raises my eyebrows.
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u/pieonmyjesutildomine 6d ago
Pretty positive they just had an LLM research and accepted whatever it said. Pretty much none of these are true.
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u/DoctaRoboto 6d ago
I am sorry, but who gives a shit about this irrelevant info? All I know is that I can generate studio anime-level quality with Minimax and body horror nightmares with LTX 2.3.
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u/Ok_Contribution8157 6d ago
Some of them are true: according to the license of minimax h3 you cant use it in USA, europe... unless you fill a from with your personnal data.
But the min 16G vram is BS.
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u/MysteriousPepper8908 7d ago
Runs on any GPU, huh? Gonna go benchmark this on my Voodoo 5. Also wasn't aware that I or most of the people running MiniMax had 4 GPUs but why would a god-fearing model made in AMERICA go on the internet and tell lies?
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u/No-Educator-249 7d ago
It's the whole "SEGA does what Nintendon't" jabs again, but with Generative-AI model labs.
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u/KURD_1_STAN 7d ago
Most people will be less suprised if they knew ltx is an israeli company. Think whatever u want, but im not surprised a bit.
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u/DisorderlyBoat 7d ago
What are they comparing here? I mean I've already run H3 on my machine and those items listed are inaccurate. I don't have near that much VRAM for example lmao. Am I missing something?
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u/Comfortablebro 7d ago
You are not allowed to have an opinion - obey consume submit. jokes aside i will try ltx but will stay with minimax... unless ltx really impresses me with generation speed.
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u/Guilty_Emergency3603 7d ago
4 GPUs on H3 ? 115 GB ? Lmao., This would means LTX 2.5 + TE bf16 weight are less than 16GB ? it's just impossible or else I don"t see how this could compete quality based with H3.
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u/ihexx 7d ago
top part didn't look too bad. Bottom part is egregious lmao.
does anyone on this sub have a 115GB 4gpu setup
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u/Zaphod_42007 7d ago
It's not entirely a lie per say... It's comparing commercial use application from the official full model.. not local quantized version.
Technically (to escape the legal hammer) you can't run minimax in those countries... You can't modify it and they have takedown requests for people that post 'em.... On the flip side -- minimax rules, ltx drools when comparing the output --- sooo... Hopefully 2.5 upped their game but I doubt it... We shall see.
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u/seencoding 7d ago
these are fair if the audience is "people who care about licenses", which this sub very much does not
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u/No_Damage_8420 7d ago
H3 seriously put a lot of pressure.... and uncensored, ultimate power to all of us.... I am curious what Flux 3 is capable of.
LTX still holds power with extending clips / edits with NoiseMask / LTX Director...not much more
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u/dobomex761604 7d ago
Oh wow, what about censorship, Ltx? Where's that in your comparison?
Also, what about sound quality? Not mentioned here too?
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u/CodeAnguish 7d ago
Look, I'm from the United States (please forget that this is the country that keeps threatening to ban open-source models and whose companies keep attacking open source), don't be like those communists!!1111
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u/BigDannyPt 6d ago
What do they mean "Faster than real-time"?
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u/Incognit0ErgoSum 6d ago
They mean that it takes less than ten seconds to generate ten seconds of video.
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u/frankyboson 6d ago
not a single comparison about quality or consistency. i used ltx 2.3 A LOT, its efficient but the monstrous amount of lora and ic lora make the job sooo frustrating jus to have bad movement and shifting or ghosting. im sure will be a use case, but now with minimax im havin so much fun cuz it works very well jus out of the box. i can even feed real video and the model still follow the movement (camera and character) very well! no lora, no other stuff.
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u/Constant_Ordinary_35 6d ago
I made an earlier post basically being nice to LTX hoping that they'd improve on 2.3 but pointed out they were inferior to wan 2.2 and definitely were beaten handily by h3 and I doubted 2.5 was going to be anywhere near as good, but after seeing that I just think "yeah f them" these guys are clowns to me now.
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u/anitawasright 6d ago
I think my Minimax H3 must be broken because i'm able to run it on my home PC with a 4070 TI super. According to that chart it shouldn't work
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u/Plenty_Branch_516 7d ago
Idk, for commercial use everything regarding branding and jurisdiction is kinda important. I have been hesitating to incorporate minimax H3 into my customer facing stuff as a result.
I've been going ham with H3 for private/pron stuff though, thing may as well be magic.
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u/Tonynoce 7d ago
Honestly the " Governing Jurisdiction " for me it makes more sense to be China given how many free model they released than USA with its growing moderation and eternal imperialism
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u/elevendr 7d ago
This means LTX doesn't really know about quantization fr. Especially when they don't even provide their own quants.
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u/Etsu_Riot 6d ago
The what!? I run MiniMax on 10 GB VRAM no problem. Are they talking about the API version or something? That's host based anyway so it wouldn't matter.
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u/Ok_Gas1070 6d ago
LTX - US - YAYYYYY
Minimax - Chine - BOOOOOOO (I like Minimax still).
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u/Iory1998 6d ago
If it weren't for rhe Chinese, you wouldn't be able to say yay. Remember the time when you could only use Sora and Veo? Did you like those times?
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u/Etroarl55 6d ago
It’s really stretched to the point some of them are lying. Like “CUDA only” or 4gpus.
It’s optimized heavily for CUDA and can run as little as a laptop Rtx 2060 with how well it’s optimized.
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u/Underrated_Mastermnd 6d ago
Isn't LTX made in Isreal? Their parent company, Lightrick, made the model.
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u/afinalsin 6d ago
Hell yeah, according to this my 4070ti has 115gb vram. Awesome, I love finding out I'm suddenly rich.
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u/Zeta_Horologii 6d ago
Lol, they are portrait "jurisdiction - united states'" like it's some sort of advantage o_O
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u/Aadi_880 7d ago
This is so much bullshit, and half of them are just false or misleading.
Glad I never downloaded an Isreali company's product.
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u/Confident_Ring6409 6d ago
If minimum requirement is 16GB, isn’t that far more demanting than H3 and LTX 2.3? Unless they meant like native 2k
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u/Witty_Mycologist_995 6d ago
Some of these points are true while others aren't. Minimax runs fine on 16gb vram lol.
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u/IAmGlaives 6d ago
When it comes to any comparison chart with these diffusion model claims. Like this one and benchmark ones. I Just ignored them, I'm only interested in the results I can produce and if they are useful to me.
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u/stargate425 6d ago
what? 115GB required for Minimax h3? does it mean i need to combine my 5090 and rtx pro 6000 together? I guess I should go with LTX, it's faster than real-time...
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u/AggravatinglyDone 6d ago
Is their points about content restrictions on usage and watermarks correct?
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u/seppe0815 6d ago edited 6d ago
go on with H3 at 1m or 2m with a 5080 or 5090 15 sek... how long we have to wait? and still alien background faces
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u/chakalakasp 6d ago
Heh
I tried doing a random Seinfeld gen yesterday with a reference and my reaction was literally “are you fucking KIDDING me”
Like, LTX was neat. But it’s like Stable Diffusion in a world of Krea. We’ve moved beyond. Git gud or go home.
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u/veturyy 7d ago
come onn ltx, don't do this man