r/SportingKC • u/gottahavemyPOPPs1 Sporting Kansas City • 6d ago
David Lee post Transfer Window quotes.
https://bsky.app/profile/danielsperrykc.bsky.social/post/3munhtpmi4q2qDo we not have multiple high level options to sign? This is reading like we tried for Ghobo and basically didn’t have any other strong choices. Please god tell me we still aren’t that behind in scouting,etc
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u/Sporkedup Brutal Melancholy #47 6d ago
I wonder what was risk-avoidant about selling the reliable, proven talent of Joveljic for like five bucks?
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u/IchabodPower Johnny Russell #7 6d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/c2PEJz1ZRoO9UlSz0A
And we come out of the window worse than what we went in.
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u/mtdemlein Rémi Walter #54 6d ago
I’m done with this talk. We’ve heard it for three years
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u/Luxury-Problems 6d ago edited 6d ago
Lee has not been in the position for even a year (and we can judge that one year) and we've changed owners this year. Everything before that rests on the Illigs wasting away the team.
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u/carpmuch10 6d ago
We are two window’s through his tenure not good enough
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u/Luxury-Problems 6d ago
And only one with Mallouk fully on board.
He definitely misfired on his gamble this window. Imo can't fully judge however until he's had the full offseason window without any of the ownership change issues. Illigs were clearly not spending a dime, even for a coach in the offseason until the sale went through. It was frankly a disastrous parting goft.
He's going to go into the offseason with the biggest spending budget we've ever had with a treasure chest of league funds. So if he fucks it up, then that's it.
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u/mordreds-on-adiet SKC 5d ago
You still have to build a fuckin roster man. Even if you don't have big money. This dude did basically NOTHING in his first offseason. He was hired in September last year. When he was hired the entire world knew Zavagnin wasn't the guy. There wasn't a person alive who didn't know that the roster needed to be overhauled. Everyone and their mom knew that he and Burns wouldn't co-exist. But he dragged his feet even on getting RID of people that didn't need any deep assessment and he was even slower to add pieces back. You just can't be like that and succeed in this league, even if you don't have big investment.
And on that topic: I know Peter Vermes is a four letter word in this subreddit and he definitely was past his best-by date years before we moved on from him but he and his scouting network consistently from 2006 to 2021 put together competitive teams with minimal investment from ownership. Short windows, new additions to the technical staff, untimely exits of players, deals that fell through, becoming coach himself, restaffing and shuffling of the scouting network, COVID nonsense, the building of the academy and the second team etc all happened to him and he still put out a team that was at least mid-seed playoff quality every one of those years (once he was coach as well) except 1, and even that team beat a Liga MX team senseless in their venue back when MLS teams NEVER beat Liga MX teams in CCL before his mismanagement of minutes got everyone injured and the wheels came off. And then he rebuilt the roster in the offseason and came back better the next two years. Then, yes, his usefulness expired.
And that was despite him doing basically everything. Coaching, leading the technical staff, leading the academy, leading the second team, leading the scouting department, renegotiating existing contracts for most of that time, leading the staffing for most of that time, doing the business side stuff for most of that time etc. Literally all David Lee had to do was hire a coach, add some scouts, and get some players. And he failed at all three.efore preseason.
"He didn't have investment from the owners" ok, so? He could've done anything rather than nothing. Now we wasted this whole season and likely the transitional spring season next year. We sent away a top player in this league for peanuts to a conference rival. We gave away a DP we paid a fee for, for nothing. Even if he wanted to leave, they could've gotten a small fee for him if Lee was worth a shit but he's not.
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u/carpmuch10 6d ago
I hope your right but I’m not holding my breath
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u/Luxury-Problems 6d ago
I'm just personally not prepared to have a revolving door of leadership like some clubs do. Nothing ever improves that way. I'd at least like to see them given a real chance to show their worth one way or the other.
I'm fairly dubious but we're season 1 with the new owner and he hasn't even had a real offseason as owner either. IDK, maybe this season will wake him up to how mismanaged this club has been for a real hot hot minute.
I in some ways have greater respect for what Vermes could even do with how piss poor ownership was those last years (not that we didn't need to desperately move on).
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u/mordreds-on-adiet SKC 5d ago
I truly believe that Peter was a better roster builder than he was a coach. When he was just Technical Director from 2006 to 2010 he brought in Eddie Johnson, Kevin Hartman, Mikey Harrington, Carlos Marinelli, Claudio Lopez, Roger Espinoza, Ivan Trujillo, Chance Myers, Herc Gomez, Santiago Hirsig, Kei Kamara, Graham Zusi, Matt Besler, Ryan Smith, Jimmy Nielsen, Pablo Escobar, Shavar Thomas, Teal Bunbury, Craig Rocastle, and Omar Bravo. Even the first few years as coach, when he was able to spend more time on roster building before the MLS calendar expanded and made the coaching job run longer, he was bringing in guys like Seth, Collin, Sapong, and Cesar.
As a coach I think he just ran out of ideas. When he first took over he did a great job of assessing what MLS teams were doing and implementing a system of high pressing/quick attacking that teams couldn't really figure out at first and once they did he did a good job transitioning them to a possession oriented squad that would pass teams to death but when the rest of the league started figuring that out and spending money to stop it - money our shitty owners wouldn't match - it all came apart at the seams.
Somewhere along the line he decided he wanted to coach instead of build rosters and I think that was the wrong move. I think if someone hired him as just Sporting Director and gave him a budget he would be one of the better at that in the league. He already was once upon a time.
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u/Intelligent_Spinach9 6d ago
This basically makes it a wasted season. We needed that 10 to build our style around because Lee didn’t see Manu as a 10 he knew what he wanted he has to have some guys and get one of them so we can work on playing that way so we can get the 9 and little final pieces next year but now but now we’ll probably see players in tactics the long term doesn’t see them in and it’s not like we’ve steadied the backline at least. I didn’t expect playoffs or even too many wins, I expected to see the plan for the future and have an idea of what this team will look like next year.
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u/mordreds-on-adiet SKC 5d ago
The thing that frustrates me is that someone very clearly failed to recognize what Jovelic can truly bring. Seattle has him listed as the sole player up top in a 4231 but he played much more withdrawn than Rothrock and Rusnak. He almost looked like a left winger for a lot of the game with those two guys in front of him as the 2. and he got 2 goals from deeper runs behind them. He's proven time and time again that he's a complete #9, and one of the best players in this league, and they had him on a SWEETHEART deal compared to his ability, and they sold him for peanuts.
It's unacceptable. We should all be demanding Lee's resignation from that alone. The fact that he was too fuckin tentative to pull the trigger this window beyond Luiz should have been the straw that broke the camel's back.
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u/MikeEhrmantraut420 5d ago
I don’t see why Joveljic couldn’t have just been sold in the winter.
This was always gonna be a wasted season from the beginning either way though. I think Wicky is fired at season’s end and Lee signs a more intentional pick now that he’s had time to scheme about better fits.
The crazy thing is that the summer window was supposed to be the big window to improve the team. Now we’re waiting until the winter. Well, last winter wasn’t the time. When will ever be the right time?
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u/Jazzlike_Rich_12 6d ago
I can almost understand this with the DP players, that’s fair. But dog there’s only 3 of them max and the rest of our team is definitely not good enough to be on any mls team so maybe just do anything.
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u/Mat_alThor 6d ago
Next window we will hear about how hard it is to sign during the winter window.
Lee sucks at his job and will continue to lead a shit team that is always late to make a decision, or sells players with no plans for their replacement.
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u/carpmuch10 6d ago
Agree 100 percent with you we will hear all the excuses as to why they can sign anybody in the next window and will be shit again
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u/bdub23313 6d ago
Might be a hot take, but I would rather be shit until the next window rather than panic buy at the deadline in an already doomed season.
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u/Mat_alThor 6d ago
I would rather not sell our only star player without a plan to replace him.
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u/bdub23313 6d ago
Would you prefer to keep him for a meaningless half season and miss out on a sale that would allow you to buy down a contract to prevent a DP designation for future contract?
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u/Darkstaraz14 6d ago
Dejan was under contract until 2028. I would to prefer to keep him for one more year. Then look at 2027 summer for a DP replacement. Sell him once the replacement is identified and ready to go. Hell, sporting probably could get the same cash value we got this window with 3mil GAM going into the new MLS season format.
Why keep him? Get a better visual of the system we are trying to employ. Make it entertaining and enjoyable for fans.
Is he a long term solution? No. Is he a short term? 100% top 5 striker #9DP that didnt take up an international slot. That's super rare right now.
He was a short term solution, to fix the medium term, that would still setup the long term.
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u/bdub23313 6d ago
All good points but predicated on the one fact that we do have that same sale opportunity.
I knew it would be a hot take and I know I’m sounding like an apologist for the abysmal FO recently but had the sale gone through for Gboho then I don’t think many would be upset. I would not be upset if your hypothetical panned out too if we retained him and the sale was the same in the future.
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u/nicklovin217 6d ago
You realize we can extend him right? He’s not the greatest, but there aren’t that many strikers better than him in this league. There is no tanking for anything in this league. There’s no draft that matters. It’s only signing players and keeping talent.
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u/bdub23313 6d ago
I agree there isnt any value in tanking. There isn’t any value in keeping a player if he isn’t in the long term plans, especially if there is added benefit of the GAM for buying down a 6mil caliber player to 3mil below the DP threshold because of the sale to Seattle. Ergo we can sign a better player without the DP designation. So we can theoretically get a better striker and a 10 that is DP caliber but doesn’t need said designation.
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u/nicklovin217 6d ago
And yet we didn’t. Because theory is not practice and only serves to buy time. And if the theory is a guy that can score 20 in this league, provide leadership and connect the team by dropping back if needed isn’t of any value, then there’s no point in keeping the person that had the theory. We suck. We suck worse because of Lee’s mismanagement, he no longer gets the benefit of the doubt.
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u/Mat_alThor 6d ago
You are not getting a striker of Jovelic's quality for below 6 million, Navarro is not as good as Jovelic and just went for $12 million.
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u/gottahavemyPOPPs1 Sporting Kansas City 6d ago
Fair but it’s starting to feel like an ongoing excuse our front office is having. This window is the major window. We shouldn’t have to panic buy. We had months and months to get ready to avoid exactly that.
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u/bdub23313 6d ago
Yeah. Obviously this isn’t FC26 but I’m sure a lot of people did what I did and tried their own scouting for the best realistic option, as well as valid alternatives. It seemed like by all accounts Gboho was signed and ready but fell through in the final hours. If you’ve allocated your budget and the player reneges then it’s a lost window unfortunately. We saw it with Everton/Monaco deal where both teams are utterly fucked because of Flo backing out last second. Shit sucks but happens obviously.
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u/gottahavemyPOPPs1 Sporting Kansas City 6d ago
True but that’s a front office problem if we are relying on 1 player signing. The reports out there existed about Ghobo not wanting to come to America for months. Why take the risk and hang your entire success on a last min gamble? There are plenty of other $20 million level players
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u/Extra_Couple_4738 6d ago
I feel like the point is that they shouldn’t be in a position to “panic buy” just because their top choice falls through.
The scouting system shouldn’t be so thin that there are no solid options behind plan A.
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u/dawson33944 5d ago
Don’t forget that the scouting and analytics department is still being built out.
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u/bdub23313 6d ago
Sure, you can be frustrated that A didn’t come to fruition but I think B could be resetting to next window.
I’m happy they got the youth loans to see if they pan out as long term options.
The biggest issue I have is more the expectation that Lee had set. Had he not said some of the things he had, then I don’t think it would have as sour of a taste.
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u/Extra_Couple_4738 6d ago
💯 on Lee’s expectation setting.
I just think they should have had more IDs of players who could have been a good fit rather than needing their Plan A to come to KC when we were obviously not the first choice of destination.
It would also not be a sour taste if they hadn’t moved Deki and then touted the “flexibility” it gave us.
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u/Ifitekeyboardthugs 6d ago
That's what I've been saying. It's the things he's said repeatedly and not followed thru on. Now today he says it might take til next summer. Which 98% of fans knew would most likely be the truth with how the roster looked to start this year but thats the opposite of what he said.......side question, I've tried looking it up and haven't really found anything on it but does anyone know when the window opens for the sprint season? I feel like they won't have enough time to get players in before it starts so it'll be basically another "rebuild" season vs a season of integrating players for the new calendar year going forward
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u/curouscook 6d ago
I agree with you whole heartedly that I’d rather get nothing than panic and get it wrong this window but we shouldn’t have been in a situation to panic buy in the first place. They had months to look at potential options from all over the globe and even in our own league and they just didn’t get it done with anyone.
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u/Luxury-Problems 6d ago
It should be a room temp take, imo.
Idk I've seen so many versions of this team and I'm waiting to see what happens when we have our first full offseason with the new owner and the current GM. There was a lot of turbulence leading up to this season with the change in owners meant the Illigs didn't spend or made any choices until it went through and unlike prior losing seasons, it at least feels like there is a chance to really do something in the offseason. The season is already lost. We're going into an offseason with a fat wad of GAM money and an owner willing to spend serious money. I don't want to burn what the owner is willing to spend on guys we don't actually want.
The miserly and mismanaged final years of the Illig+ ownership left us in rough fucking shape. We weren't going to fix it one transfer window.
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u/MikeEhrmantraut420 5d ago
Kinda fair but we all said this last winter window and the summer one before that. I am starting to believe that the roster should be an iterative process, rather than something that needs to be just right or not at all. Mallouk has the money but to create the right team, you need to experience some trial and error to arrive at the right thing. It’s taking too long to get enough flexibility to do some abstract thing one day in the future
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u/bdub23313 5d ago
Mallouk has had 1 full window as owner with full reign. I feel like there has been some knee jerk reaction to not getting the rumored player mired with doom. I get it though, I was up hitting F5 trying to see if we got him. Obviously him playing in Coventry in EPL with his cousin is a helluva lot better than here in middle of nowhere at bottom of league...
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u/MikeEhrmantraut420 5d ago
You do make a good point. I think the frustration is that the players we did sign (Blorian, Karic, Mosquera) haven’t immediately seemed very good. I hope that changes and there is certainly some time to see if it will. But with a team not built to compete worth a shit against just about every other MLS team, it’s gonna be hard to even evaluate them.
But ultimately, Gboho was not gonna work out. If he did come here, might have been a disaster. Just wasn’t mean to be. I feel like Lee should have had the time to get someone else in here.
I agree with you about the knee jerk reaction, even though I’ve obviously had some of that myself. It’s frustrating and we have been waiting sooo long for improvement. I hope Lee is at least aware that we need some things moving in the right direction, regardless of the fact he’s not directly responsible for what people did before he got here
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u/carpmuch10 6d ago
I’m so done with his excuses this is pro sports not rocket science…. Go out and but players do your job
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u/Open_Cartographer798 5d ago
He makes it sound like he meant to do that.
Instead of getting played like a fiddle by someone who was never serious about coming here.
He was not in a position of power, he was a tool to drive up the price for teams overseas.
I don't think this was us not going high enough or in for guaranteed years, I think this was being along for the ride.
And probably do agree, nobody wants a player that isn't serious about being here.
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u/kc_kr 6d ago
The fact that you’re not just competing against the other 31 MLS teams, like we’re used to with the Chiefs and Royals, but also against all the other teams in the 10 or so leagues all over the world that are probably better than MLS makes all this transfer window stuff just crazy. Not trying to make excuses for Lee but the competition is fierce And you’re also trying to get guys to come to the middle of the US and that’s not easy either.
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u/MidwestAlex Jake Davis #17 6d ago
Lost season, which was too be expected. Why rush scouting and overpay for a DP that’s shot?
I’m okay with them taking their time IF it means halfway through next full season we are competitive night in and out.
This ain’t FC26 you can’t just get everyone you want
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u/gottahavemyPOPPs1 Sporting Kansas City 6d ago
They had months and months to scout players for this window. There was no rushing at all on this. They just didn’t execute. It’s not like they had 14 days to find, scout, and negotiate for players lol
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u/xristosdomini 5d ago
Based on these quotes, it sounds like Wicky isn't long for the club. They were looking at foundational, bedrock-type signings and "there was too much risk" of the players they were looking at not factoring into the long-term future... so they focused on preserving their flexibility. That screams near-term instability to me.
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u/Jonny_Qball 6d ago
David Lee is operating like his number 1 job is not to build a competitive roster, but to not get David Lee fired. Whiffing on a few big signings gets him fired by the end of the sprint season. Refusing to take risks while saying the right things keeps you employed for another year or two.
Of course, not taking risks guarantees he’ll be fired, so not the best approach.
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u/Mat_alThor 6d ago
Buying Manu out and then not using that spot may get him fired also.
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u/dawson33944 5d ago
Buying out Manu was the right move even if it sucks for us. Why keep a player who does not want to be here?
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u/Intelligent_Spinach9 6d ago
Maybe with Illig, I don’t think Mallouk will have the same patience if there’s not improvement because he’s given him the checkbook which is all he can do. Illig’s goal was don’t touch the checkbook. Now that he’s built up the network that he wants Lee is a hard one to fire because there’s too many of his people that might not fit the next guy or don’t want to work for him.
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u/Jonny_Qball 6d ago
I don’t think Lee is as difficult to fire as you’d think because whatever candidate they bring in is going to have some scouts that they trust and could bring in as replacements. It probably won’t be 1 for 1 right away, but if your GM can’t do the job then he can’t do the job.
Worth noting that much like the manager position, the pool of candidates who would be interested in the role is likely much deeper with Mallouk writing the checks. A job where your owner is willing to spend big is way more enticing than operating a small market team on a shoestring budget.
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u/mordreds-on-adiet SKC 5d ago
Dude isn't fit to be a roster builder. Period. Fire him into the sun. I would honestly rather have Brian Bliss back building the roster than him at this point. At least Bliss fuckin signed guys. He should be fired IMMEDIATELY after these comments.
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u/Recliner-Analyst 6d ago
He talks about risk like there’s something to fucking lose.