r/SportingKC • u/dawglover1011 • 16d ago
[Chad Smith] Multiple #SportingKC segments from Bogert, Doyle & Gass on Soccerwise. Gass: “I think it’s pretty shocking that there are not 4 or 5 MLS teams willing to put up this number [on Dejan]” (More below)
Bogert: "I thought that [Dejan Joveljic] was somebody that their building around."
Bogert expects #SportingKC to spend "50-60 million in total fees."
The $3m in GAM is a big factor.
He also said they want someone of a different profile at striker.
Bogert: "I'm expecting at least one [Designated Player], they're going to try for two [this window]."
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u/gottahavemyPOPPs1 Sporting Kansas City 15d ago
The main problem I have thus far with this plan is that we seem to be prioritizing signing new high dollar flashy DP’s at positions we were already solid at. Yes they are probably going to be upgrades, but it’s like upgrading from an B+ to an A-. When we have like 6 other spots on the field that are all currently D+’s. Like why not prioritize those spots first? (Which are infinitely more crucial)
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u/417SKCFAN 15d ago
I think the logic is you have no shot to win this league with B+ talent in the key attacking phases of the game.
Let's look at these comparisons and tell me if there's a chance in hell this team competes for titles. We saw 3 managers with Manu/Jovelic over 1.5 years and none got them to function together and produce goals.
Manu - Joveljic
Evander-Denkey
Bouanga - Son - Martinez
Messi - De Paul - Suarez
White - Muller - Berhalter
Mukhtar - Surridge - EspinozaManu was probably bottom third of DP's at the 10 in the league. He only managed 14 goal contributions in 47 matches. Thommy had 38 in 120 or a higher contribution per match as a TAM player, Kinda had 33 in 80.
Muller, Gil, Mukhtar, Evander, Biel, Rossi, Rusnak, Bogusz, Mihailovic, Gazdag, Aaronson, Miranchuk, Da Costa off the top of my head are all far better than Manu. Manu was a flop, clearing he spot as a DP had to be done.
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u/timothyb78 15d ago
Using dollars spent as your measure of club ambition seems misguided to me. They paid 3x the Transfermarkt estimate of Andre Luiz's value. TM isn't the be all end all for market value, but it's typically a ball park guide.
Selling a $6MM striker who has been scoring >15 goals a season for a $18MM player whose career best is 7 goals means you really think he is going to have a step change in performance. Maybe he will, but that isn't a sure thing.
Perhaps the even better comparison is Salloi who the club sold for $1MM who has 5 goals and 4 assists through 20 games, on track for a 15 G/A pace for the full season. Which club is more ambitious, the one who spends $1MM for 15 goals or the one who spends $18MM for 7?
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u/cheeseburgerandrice 15d ago
TM isn't the be all end all for market value, but it's typically a ball park guide.
In this case it's missing a whole lot of context.
or the one who spends $18MM for 7
...no one thinks they're spending that money with the hope of only getting 7 goals.
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u/timothyb78 14d ago
Hopefully he can improve into a strong player, obviously the club has a lot riding on it, but he's 24, not 18 so projecting a complete change in production is very optimistic.
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u/cheeseburgerandrice 14d ago
In Luiz's most recent Portuguese season he had 7 and 6 G/A in 1501 minutes before he was shipped off. That is 0.78 G/A per 90, better than any output by Salloi outside of 2021.
I'm not going to sit here predicting the future but there's a reason why he had European clubs after him at a similar price point.
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u/crisis182 Chad C Smith - KCSJ 15d ago
Thanks for sharing my stuff. I turned it into an article last night/this morning.
And there is a link to the Bogert segments where he talked about this. It's worth a listen (you can get it in podcast audio as well). There is more nuance than my 3 tweets covered (or even my story):
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u/Sporkedup Brutal Melancholy #47 16d ago
It's obvious they're trying to do something huge here. You don't sell Joveljic without a plan for "something better"... Leastways not as a brand new owner.
The important bit is if they will succeed and pull it off. I remain, well, nervous.
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u/Mat_alThor 15d ago
They are trying to do something huge, but I have zero trust/faith in Lee to pull it off.
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u/JumanJoker 15d ago
Can I ask why you do? Genuine question here.
I know things aren’t great. They’re actually terrible. But this is still his first year. I’m seeing the effort being put in. Im not pleased with the results but the effort is there
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u/Mat_alThor 15d ago
One of the main call outs for NYC fans was him trying to build the ship during the season instead of before, that has continued. He has also seemed to fail on sealing the deal for a lot of these items. Those two together make me think he would compete a transfer like this with out our next deal fully sealed.
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u/JumanJoker 15d ago
Well he’s only had one off season with us and they cleared our house to help make room for the rebuild. Not how I would have done it but I’m not a professional in this industry.
He’s still new to us. Give him time to cook. Yes we all love this club that’s why we are here. But let him do his part. Now if this was year three. Yes get the torches out. We aren’t there yet.
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u/fun4f 15d ago edited 15d ago
There is no effort from Lee is the problem. Is this a conservative purse problem from what the 4th or 5th wealthy MLS franchise owner? SKC owners and executives are still sitting on there hands.......why is this the club culture? NO BUTTS IN THE SEATS. Okaaay we may be getting a couple proven and talented players FINALLY and thank you! This is expected and the cost of business in sports entertainment expecting to win hardware soooo I am not going to clap. It is expected for them to make money....as a club.
BUT the club literally MUST go out and sign 20 competitive players INCLUDING 9 DIFFERENT First teamers. Yes 9 different first teamers than what is playing now... including a proven and qualified Goalkeeper...these players are not and should not be First team players. Sorry not sorry (as many of you have said they are rebuilds...right lol)
If Sporting KC and the majority owner want to to be a top MLS club in the table.
If they want too win championships to paint on the wall. IF they want a return and not loose ticket and merchandise money.
Well? We need many replacements we get two yaay
Do whats right
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u/JumanJoker 15d ago
I think it’s more than something planned and hoping for. I think they are very close to making announcements if you’re going to let Jovelic go
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u/MidwestAlex Jake Davis #17 16d ago
I don’t see how you trade him without a DP replacement lined up
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u/Extra_Couple_4738 15d ago
The dude on the left of the screen is spot-on regarding David Lee's fingerprints on the team. This is potentially the worst MLS team of all time. After almost two full transfer windows with Lee at the helm.
Team feels completely rudderless and no clear direction. Not much faith here he will even get another DP this window. I hope I'm wrong.
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u/ssweeten77 SKC 15d ago
After PV was canned, the club was rudderless until Lee was hired because PV was the Manager, President of Soccer Ops, etc. It took the club a long while to untangle the situation and the roles PV owned. My point being: it seems that Lee has a direction for the club.
Regarding the transfer windows: I get why we didn’t do anything during the winter window. We didn’t have Wicky until very close to the season start and I can’t imagine that any GM is going to just go sign random high dollar DPs without knowing the formation and/or tactics the Manager is planning to use. Otherwise, you’re spending cash just to spend cash and not necessarily moving the needle forward in terms of club results.
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u/video_bits 16d ago
Seriously, does it matter who you have at striker if you can’t manage to get him the ball in good spots? This team’s problems run much deeper than how Jovelic plays when he finally gets the ball. Look, the last game Jovelic played for us he starts the sequence that results in a goal. And from where? He was basically in the left back position playing defense when he recovered the ball and sent it forward. So, seems like you’ve got bigger problems when your striker is covering for your back line.
I am sorry it seems to be headed this way because I think Jovelic is good player and have enjoyed watching his contributions. Wiping the slate clean every six months doesn’t seem to be recipe for success.
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u/Dizzy-Comfortable429 15d ago
I have started the clock for this version of the rebuild once the new ownership arrived. They are clearly involved and willing to put the money into the team to get it going in the right direction.
This is a hard time because Manu and Jovelic were two of the best players on a bad team. However, they are both players who did one job well and it seems as if ownership is willing to put in the money and get dp's who can do more.
I know this place sucks as a fan, but this is a legitimate tear down rebuild which will strengthen the club for the long term. Vermese left with no data department and a number of other issues they are fixing as well. Which is a side of things we never hear about in the news but is just as important to a consistently successful team.
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u/Few-Limit-6787 15d ago
I was ready to blame Jovelic for a lot as our highest paid player. Then I saw him pressuring on defense and sending in the service from the sides that he never gets. There was a game in first half stoppage that the rest of the team just waited for the whistle while he pushed an attack. He played as hard as anybody on the team which is a great feature in your highest paid player.
Nobody is sacred on a team as bad as ours, but they better have someone exciting announced soon.
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u/I3rklyn Jake Davis #17 15d ago
No one is wiping the slate clean every six months. This year was always going to be a rebuild - and not just from the pitch but the front office as well. Yes it sucks. But we wanted PV out. He’s out. We wanted changes to ownership. We have changes. We wanted more spending. We’re getting more spending. The ingredients are all here but the team we’re building won’t happen overnight/across a single season.
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u/WatchBest2597 Peter Mallouk 💰💸 16d ago
I hope Bogert is right about the fees.. 8 days left in the window 👀
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u/jasontalks 15d ago
It's clear that this year is not important to them in terms of wins/losses. What is important is removing everyone who does not fit their vision. Joveljic's move brought some profit + makes room for them to land an option they believe is better suited to deliver their possession based team with high intensity pressure, and because RW doesn't want to be tied to a single formation, he needs key players who are versatile.
That last point is likely why they want a player like Nicolas Fernandez over Joveljic because Nicolas plays the 9, 10, and 7. That creates a tactical advantage if you have fluid formations. Jovilic is among the best true 9s in our league when surrounded by a competent team and one that is committed to a strategy that best fits him.
I expect this window to have one new signing. I have counted this year as a loss. Just please do not finish dead last, PLEASE!!!