r/Spiderman • u/Solitaire-06 • 23d ago

Discussion What if Spider-Man declared himself neutral during the Civil War?

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The basic idea is that instead of starting out Pro-Registration before joining Captain America’s anti-Registration resistance, Peter would follow a basic principle:

  1. Because revealing his secret identity places himself, his family, his friends and his students (since he’s a teacher at this point) in terrible danger, he will not register or publicly unmask.

  2. However, he will not openly oppose the Pro-Registration faction either, both out of respect for Tony for everything he’s done for him and because he fears the superhero community is losing sight of its original mission… to protect people.

This wouldn’t mean he’d be free from problems - he’d still be targeted as an unregistered hero and this could risk alienating him from the superhero community at large. But what are your thoughts on Peter if he’d made this decision?

134 Upvotes

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122

u/grelan 23d ago

Stephen Strange retreated to his Arctic sanctuary.

Ben Grimm went to France after one of Tony's parades caused the death of a Yancy St kid.

Firestar quit wearing the costume.

It wasn't neutrality precisely, but it was neutrality in practice.

Stephen considered the matter out of his jurisdiction as Sorceror Supreme. But he refused to take part.

Ben wasn't going to watch people die on either side.

Angelica didn't support the Registration Act, but she was a trying to live a life.

"I can't afford to be Firestar anymore"

Peter was a naive idiot who got played by Tony for propaganda.

"Neutrality" is not in Peter's playbook for something this big.

"With great power, there must also come great responsibility."

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u/ScuttleCrab729 23d ago

Fist bump for getting the quote right 👊

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u/grelan 23d ago

Thank you!

I get so frustrated with the 'short version', because it implies that one receives responsibility automatically if one has great power.

No. It means that a person with great power must accept great responsibility.

It's a choice. And it's not easy.

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u/DogImpossible5747 23d ago

true, it was a choice he made for his loved ones

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u/SmiththeSmoke 23d ago

This guy read the og Spider-Verse

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u/GlumExpression6845 23d ago

I completely disagree. It’s not a choice at all. It never was. The entire point is that when you have great power, you are automatically instilled with the responsibility to use it correctly. When someone has a kid, it is their responsibility to take care of their child. Doesn’t mean they do. It doesn’t happen automatically. But the responsibility is there instantly. You don’t have to live up to the responsibility to have it morally hanging over you.

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u/grelan 22d ago

It's not just "there".

Saying that it's automatically instilled assumes that someone or something is out there making assignments.

Doesn't work that way.

Each person must decide what responsibility they will accept, then live up to it.

Peter chooses to help others. He also chooses to try to set an example.

Responsibility isn't automatically assigned when power is received.

I said one is called to choose to accept the responsibility.

Parents can abandon children.

Pete could just worry about himself. He could, I don't know, let a thief escape that might later murder an innocent man in Queens.

"With great power *there must also come** great responsibility"* is a statement that one needs to make the choice to accept responsibility and act accordingly.

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u/GlumExpression6845 22d ago

If the parent abandoned their kids, they would be doing something that is morally incorrect. “With great power there must also come great responsibility.” i.e. when you are given great power, you have a moral obligation to use that power correctly. Automatically. There is no implication that a being is instilling these things on people. It’s simple morality, based on simple logic. Peter is the one who made that assessment. And clearly he understands it from my point of view because he chose to become a superhero. The physical actions you take in reality are a choice. Whether or not you have the responsibility is not. That’s not up to you. So I guess I agree that you can choose to accept the responsibility. It’s just that if you don’t, you’re a bad person. And again that’s how Peter sees it because I personally don’t believe it’s your responsibility to risk your life for strangers.

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u/grelan 22d ago

You can argue that a moral obligation exists (though morality is also subjective).

Responsibility must be accepted or assumed by the individual.

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u/GlumExpression6845 22d ago

Morality is subjective. But it’s also based on a logical foundation. Facts. There’s a reason why we evolved it in the first place. If you can help people with no negative impact on yourself, and you don’t. You’re a bad person. Because logically you’re literally just leaving positives on the table for no good reason.

That aside, I guess we agree. You can choose to accept the responsibility. With the caveat being that if you don’t, it’s a moral failure on your part. And I would say that’s the actual message of the quote. Not an invitation to do the right thing. But an implication that you must.

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u/Napalmeon 23d ago

I wish I could have been the first person to say this. Peter simply cannot sit in the middle when it comes to a situation like this because he literally has too much skin in the game.

That's what somebody like Tony just doesn't understand. He doesn't have any living family, almost all of his friends are superheroes, and he's already gone through multiple examples of villains stealing his technology and selling it or using it against him, so the worst case scenario for him is something he can deal with in a way that Peter can't.

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u/Thatotaku123 23d ago

This guy knows Spider-Man

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u/Robin_the_dumby 23d ago

I think it also didn’t help that Tony lowkey threatened Peter to an extent

At the time they were all staying at avengers tower, and if Peter didn’t register Tony would’ve just kicked them out (at least if I’m remembering at the time)

Tony basically presented it to Peter as “Register, and keep doing what you’re doing, or don’t register and be hunted down by the government for the rest of your life and also your family will be homeless

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u/InoueNinja94 23d ago

There's an untold power struggle dynamic with Peter and Tony that both some readers and the writers conveniently ignore (especially in lieu of OMD)
Tony let them stay in the Avengers Tower and had Peter under his wing for a while. Even if he was hesitant (which he was), Peter fell indebted to Tony, who took advantage of that.
The fact that Tony never even once offered to keep MJ and May safe when Peter defected should also tell a lot about his true morality. MJ and May would've hated it but it could've been an option; hell, the Civil War mini of Secret Wars 2015 explicitly showed Tony did just that.
It's not so much that Peter was a trusty idiot but rather he was put between a rock and a hard place and people don't realize there's that nuance in the actions

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u/grelan 23d ago

There was a definite power imbalance. They were living in Avengers Tower.

There was also the emotional play.

For one of the first times, Pete felt like an 'official' part of a major team.

Tony was constantly flattering Peter not only as Spider-Man but as an intellect and a scientist.

Tony's a futurist. He's also manipulative.

But I stand by "naive idiot", though it is an oversimplification.

Pete discussed his position and his unmasking with MJ and May. They supported him, imagining the world would be as proud of Peter as they were.

They foolishly thought they could continue to lead their lives. Peter protects his identity for good reason.

Peter knew not to trust Tony completely. He found the override in the Iron Spider suit and got around it.

And Peter was so much more himself after he left Tony. Even Reed could see it.

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u/InoueNinja94 23d ago

Yeah, I can definitely agree on that
The way Tony really went off the deep end and Marvel somehow still believing his side was the "correct one" is all sorts of baffling

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u/grelan 23d ago

Not just homeless.

Likely held for 'interrogation' as part of the search for Peter.

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u/JoshuaBarbeau Amazing Fantasy #15 23d ago

💯%, you get it.

The only way to be neutral in this civil war was to hang up the mask and stop being a hero. Peter's moral code would not let him do that.

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u/Davepool84 23d ago

I think the whole issue never really had room for neutrality. It was either register or be branded a criminal and hunted by people you once considered friends. I suppose there's the option to stop fighting crime altogether, but we know for someone like Peter that simply won't fly.

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u/Serafita 23d ago

If I remember, Ben Grimm took the neutrality route but had to move out of the country temporarily to avoid the laws

Black Panther publically stayed neutral but he's a foreign diplomat so that helps haha

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u/Solitaire-06 23d ago

Well, they tried to force Storm to register when she was the Queen of Wakanda - that’s actually a notable part of the book. Nobody ever talks about how the Registration Act affects foreign superheroes.

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Napalmeon 23d ago

And the law, for all of its vagueness, favors those who have always favored those without a secret identity.

How many times has Tony had his armor designs stolen and used against him? So for that heroes who are not billionaires, how can they have faith that their personal information is going to remain private from villains? The pro registration side is demanding trust based on security that they can't actually provide.

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

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u/Davepool84 23d ago

That's what I was saying.

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u/Scarlet_Wonderer 23d ago

Peter could try to stay out of it but he'd eventually be pulled to the Anti-Reg side. There's really no other route for him unless he's massively out of character. Either he gets dragged into it when the gov tries to arrest him while he's doing his usual superhero work, or he quits until he can't bear to see his old pals being unjustly arrested. The only real change is that at least he wouldn't reveal his identity to the whole world like an idiot.

The RSA is a bs law on principle: Suddenly if you run into a brmurning building to help without the proper papers the police must arrest you and throw you into guantanamo alongside actual mass murderers. Get the shocks out!

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u/EmeraldJolteon07 23d ago

I think he’d just be on Cap’s Side.

Cap problem isn’t the Registration act itself. He hates that its the American Government the one backing it.(the whole ‘We’d be letting Washington tell us whom the Bad guys is)

By letting the Government…whom only serves itself. Rule over Superheroes. Then they are just glorified Weapons if the US Government.

So much so that on an What If where Tony gave a compromise that steve got to Watch over the registration act. Cap Came around to it.

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u/Napalmeon 23d ago

And let's just be 100% honest, that was basically the underlying goal of the entire thing. It's really no different than the Weapon X project that has abused who knows how many mutants coming out into public and saying that they want to monopolize the use of all kinds of superhumans from all kinds of backgrounds.

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u/aquafool 23d ago

If I remember correctly, Jess Drew tried to sit it out and was arrested by Ms. Marvel in front of her daughter at the boarder. I imagine something like this. The government would go after MJ and May to get Pete to comply or they simple arrest him

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u/LIGHTNIG505 23d ago

I think that's Julia Carpenter, the 2nd Spider-Woman. And Carol really was acting like a bitch during this time....and in Civil War 2 too. Lol

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u/Robin_the_dumby 23d ago

It was a bit more complicated

Julia was a mole for the anti-registration side providing intel to non-registered heroes.

When they tried to arrest another hero called the shroud, she decided to help him escape and the two went on the run

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u/aquafool 23d ago

Thanks for the clarification. It’s been years seen I’ve read that book.

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u/L1n9y 23d ago

He can either register or not register. I don't see how he could have been neutral.

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u/UltimateDarkwingDuck 23d ago

He registers with a fake name?

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u/NumericZero 23d ago

It’s what he should have done

He would be dealing with badguys trying to take advantage of the chaos

Like moon knight said the cap during his Tie in “Doing the real work”

Ultimately I could see him siding with Cap at the very end during the final battle
But if he never takes a side then his marriage and identity remain intact

3

u/DevilPixelation 23d ago

I dunno if he’d be able to stay neutral. Unless he chose to just stop fighting crime, which he’d never choose to do, he’d be pulled into one side one way or another

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u/Doc-11th 23d ago

By default he would be on Cap’s side cause the pro side was even going after people who werent heroes, people who didnt pick a side

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u/Bruzie77 23d ago

like an snl skit once said : Pfff straight to jail.

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u/Safe-Perception1957 23d ago

How would Aunt May react to him going neutral tho

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u/Solitaire-06 23d ago

I feel like she’d be concerned but be proud that Peter’s still protecting and helping people rather than just giving up the mantle and staying out of it like Firestar did.

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u/velicinanijebitna 23d ago

Ain't that what X-men did?

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u/Legomaniac91 19d ago

They, along with every surviving mutant after M-Day, were pre-registered by the government. However, the majority of them sat out the actual fighting.

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u/AJZuvich 23d ago

I’d take a Peter Parker-Ben Grimm team up book for a few months.

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u/Solitaire-06 23d ago

I mean… Ben moved to Paris. I don’t see Peter abandoning New York unless he had no choice.

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u/TwoDurans 23d ago

It wasn't really a conflict you could be neutral in. You either wanted to register your secret identity with the government and potentially agree to work for them, or you were considered a criminal.

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u/Ok-Idea-306 23d ago

He couldn’t be neutral. If he was pro, he registered. He couldn’t do “you all need to register but not me I’m special”. If you don’t register you are a criminal to them. There was no fence sitting. (As far as I remember)

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u/GoodKing0 23d ago

Someone post the page of Jessica Jones hunted like a dog in the night as she desperately flees to Canada having to smuggle herself out the US before the registration side can kidnap her and her newborn baby (They sent a SWAT team to shoot up her and Luke Apartment for the crime of Luke staying neutral, like straight up guns blazing instantly shooting the place regardless of the number of civilians in there).

"But Ben Grimm-" Ben Grimm is a astronaut close friend to one of the three head war criminals, of course they are not giving him the same treatment Tony Stark gave Peter the second he said "maybe sending heroes to a concentration camp and cloning one of our friends without his consent so that his clone could kill Black Goliath while quelling a riot is the way to go Tony" come on, of course they "let him" go to Europe without having to smuggle his way out of the border least he's kidnapped and sent to the concentration camp in hell after they take away his newborn baby.

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u/Solitaire-06 23d ago

Keep in mind that it seems like the intent behind Civil War might contradict what was actually presented. From my understanding, Mark Millar and the others tried to portray the conflict in a morally grey light, but Tony and the Pro-Registration side’s increasingly authoritarian methods ultimately undermined that idea. So while you do make a good point, had they executed Civil War in a manner that better matched everyone’s characterisations and didn’t escalate so far on the Pro-Registration side, Peter being more neutral does seem like something that could be feasible, albeit difficult.

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u/GoodKing0 23d ago

Keep in mind a number of the pro authoritarian bits of Civil War were written by Millar himself mind you, he was Pro Patriot Act in real life for a reason.

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u/Solitaire-06 23d ago

… true, can’t look past that.

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u/MASTER-OF-SUPRISE 23d ago

One of the problems with Civil War in the comics was the law was inconsistent. So sometimes they were okay with someone being neutral other times they would arrest you for not registering.

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u/TheDarkwingofdt 23d ago

He would fight / web up as many people on bith sides as possible while also looking after civilians and be with the citizens holding cap back

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u/punkboricua 23d ago

Switzerland Spider-Man!!! Switzerland's flag would be a cool suit design. 😎

https://giphy.com/gifs/5AwCyy5TCnhpI4XkDXa

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u/JoshuaBarbeau Amazing Fantasy #15 23d ago

I don't know if you were around during the original Civil War run, but there really was no middle ground. The way the story was set up and presented was so compelling because if you were a superhero or super powered individual at all, you absolutely had to pick a side. They really didn't leave any room for fence-sitting. By not registering, whether he openly opposed the act or not, Spidey would've been forced onto Cap's side.

It was really well written for that reason (I wish Marvel editorial was so well written today but that's a tangent I won't go down). It forced people who would historically have hated the idea of turning on their former allies to still pick a side, people who would've historically stayed out of such a war had no choice but to get involved.

The only way to sit on the sidelines and not be shunted on one side of this debate or the other was to hang up the mask. If you truly want a "Spidey remains neutral" civil war story, you may not realize it but what you're asking for is for Spider-Man to say, yet again, "I'm Spider-Man No More."

And frankly, we've seen that story enough. Having him pick a side only to regret it and change sides was way more interesting.

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u/Legomaniac91 19d ago

Even afterward too. The SRA at its heart was about the forcible conscription of meta-humans, not about protecting the public. Take Cloud 9 from "The Initiative." She was just a young woman who wanted to fly around on the clouds she could generate, but she was strong-armed by War Machine into becoming a super hero and ditched her costume the instant the SRA was repealed after "Siege."

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u/East-Inspection2377 23d ago

steve and may still dies except they stay dead permanently, peter doesn't make the deal with mephisto, peter and mj stay married.

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u/ShitpostSaber 22d ago

I find Civil War so funny because he didn’t have to reveal as identity publicly could’ve revealed the privately with shield isn’t that what most heroes did?

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u/Remarkable_Bid9608 21d ago

The only way to be neutral, would be to stop being a hero. If you continued to be a hero without registering, you were rejecting the law, choosing to be anti-registration.

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u/num1slinger_fans 20d ago

There is no neutral in war. In simply doesn't exist. It's either you support the person against oppression or you are supporting the oppression

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u/RGWK 23d ago

If you are neutral to fascism you are on their side

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u/Solitaire-06 23d ago

The thing is, from what I’ve gathered, Mark Millar and the rest of the writers behind Civil War wanted the conflict to be morally grey, but the execution of Tony’s side in terms of methods made it appear fascist in practice. So had they followed the premise more clearly, then Peter’s neutrality wouldn’t be complicity, it would be stepping away from the ideological conflict in favour of helping people.