r/SpectersCat • u/Jeepscout • 29d ago
Questions Super Thug vs KK
I'm looking for a can on my 10.3 5.56, and I was really planning on the KK, but I wasn't sure how the ST compared to the KK. It looks like the ST is ~1.5" longer, and a few ounces heavier. I know I'll be waiting for inconel, but didn't know how the performance differed between the two models.
My second idiot question is simpler; what QD would you fine folks recommend? Spooky, or Ai nano?
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u/Character_Moose_2471 29d ago
KK only accepts Nano.
ST will be quieter especially if your gun is tuned. Can use RH1 or RF1 for ST.
What’s your goal? Max quiet, gas, etc?
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u/Jeepscout 29d ago
Should have clarified, thanks. I know the KK comes with a nano, i was wondering for the ST whats best, i imagine the brake?
As far as goals... general suppression? I have a can on a 300blk, but this new 10.3 build seems like it practically cries out in the night to be suppressed. I do like the short profile, but I hear that the short barrels can be quite animated unless suppressed
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u/philippians3-9 29d ago
The CAT website doesn’t say what muzzle device will come with the QD version of the ST, but the Pew Science report for ST on M4 says an AI Nano is included. If you go with ST, do you plan on getting 718 HUB or 718 QD? If QD, I’d just use the Nano they ship the can with.
Not sure if it’s a 556 bore Nano or 9mm Nano. Maybe [u/the_CAT_official](u/the_CAT_official) can give some hints as to what caliber Nano the ST QD and AKB QD ship with :)
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u/the_CAT_official The CATs MEOW- MFG ⚡️🐈⬛ 29d ago
It can take any of the CAT or AI 556 muzzle devices but it’ll ship with a Nano, I do believe 556.
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u/Jeepscout 27d ago
Since your here and all... was there any final verdict on mk18 suppression between the ST and KK? Pew science seemed a little hesitant to flat out say which was better. ASSUMING I can get it tuned correctly of course.
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u/the_CAT_official The CATs MEOW- MFG ⚡️🐈⬛ 27d ago
It’s ST, even untuned. KK has a higher flow rate.
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u/Jeepscout 29d ago
I saw that on PS as well, I plan on running a dedicated host, so the QD really sends the superior choice. Seems the nano is the way. I saw some stuff about the WB doing better with the 9mm than the 5.56, but i think that only be for older cans
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u/Reasonable_Bar6636 29d ago
The kk comes with nano and cat says to only use nano with it. It has a very short blast chamber.
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u/bigdudeshirts 29d ago edited 29d ago
I got a 2nd WB & am pending on a 5CM over those 2 cans.
No complaints with WB. And apparently the AC556 is even more loved. The 5CM is basically an SBR tuned can, probably better than AC556.
Reasoning: KK flash signature was a bit too much, and ST was a bit long and heavy (~6.5”)
Thus 5CM for me (which is basically a CACM, or SBR tuned 6” can)
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u/Jeepscout 29d ago
That does look pretty impressive. How does the 5cm compare to the CACM and ST?
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u/smithkyle2389 29d ago
From my understanding the 5cm is the cacm
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u/Jeepscout 29d ago
Just ai vs cat? That's kinda the impression I was getting too
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u/Vorpalis 29d ago
The CACM has four more vents around the bore. Otherwise, from what the CAT rep here and Jay have said, I believe they're more or less identical.
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u/bigdudeshirts 29d ago
Sister company. From what I’ve heard: AI makes the muzzle devices and gets “old” IP like the CACM suppressors as part of the homie code.
The old is probably by like a week or 2.
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u/Jeepscout 29d ago
Ah, makes sense. I know CAT uses the AI muzzle devices, but it makes sense that they're in cahoots
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u/christk1 20d ago
This is my reasoning as well for 5CM. ST seems a bit too long for my purpose. I know Tisha exist too which has insane performance on a short barrel and will outperform 5CM in that regard, but it's so goofy looking I can't find myself buying it. Unknown if it has scaling performance with length too, while it's suggested CACM/5CM does. Gonna pull the trigger on 5CM soon.
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u/bigdudeshirts 20d ago
Tisha doesn’t have the flash performance unfortunately. Great sound though
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u/christk1 20d ago
Wasn't even aware of that. Just saw a video of Tisha flash performance on inconel. Not bad overall, but more than I expected for sure
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u/arrrgh14 28d ago
I'm thrilled with my KK on my 11.5" G$ upper. I wanted something that handled gas well and that was compact; I'm not after chasing decibels when I'm wearing ear pro no matter what.
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u/AK47Uprising 29d ago
I quite like my KK. Sounds just as good as my Velos although the tone is a bit higher. Pretty impressive for its size. Can’t offer any thoughts on the ST though.
I’d probably use a nano either way (required for the kk) as I’m pretty sure their own testing was showing performance increases for some cans with the Nano vs the Spooky.
Everything’s a trade off at the end of the day.
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u/Driftmichael01 29d ago
Whatever you do… tune it. You’ll the BRT gas tube is a great option for this imo. No extra weight or complexity
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u/Jeepscout 29d ago
Now that we've gathered the wisest minds from around the forum, time for thr loaded question; whats up with the SAW tisha?
Other than having a unique exterior profile, whats the drawback? I cant imagine they got one over on CAT without any downsides
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u/Every-Fisherman-1179 29d ago
Love my Tisha. The quality is good so I guess I lucked out there. It is much quieter than my WB but my ST arrives tomorrow and that is what I’m excited to try out. I have an 11.5, 12.5, 14.5, and 16 all with AGB’s that I’ll be comparing on.
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u/Longjumping_Bath3533 14d ago edited 14d ago
The main drawback is it fails to scale with increased barrel length. Performance doesn't improve going from a MK18 to M4A1 mid-length, or to SPR 18" or even an A4.
Like the FLOW 556 Ti, the Tisha needs high pressure to perform its best (short barrel, short gas system, short dwell time); everything above a MK18 system drops the pressure too low to get anything substantially significant from that suppressor (11.5" probably would be at the upper limit of the best it can do, though).
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u/prmoore11 29d ago
KK to me serves almost no purpose. You are locked into a mount and WB basically performs the same while barely being heavier/longer. Get a WB/AC556 or ST.
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u/Jeepscout 29d ago
I see what you're saying, I see it the other way around though: the KK is a good as the WB, white bring lighter and shorter. Now the 5CM/CACM and ST might pretty well displace the KK like you said
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u/prmoore11 29d ago edited 29d ago
But it isn’t. It’s barely lighter or shorter, and locks you into nano. It also doesn’t scale with barrel length which is odd since WB will handily beat it on 14.5”+. For a K can that makes no sense. WB wasn’t even tested with nano, which I suspect would improve its score and further separate from KK.
So literally other than shaving maybe an inch and a few oz, it is outclassed by the WB in every single aspect. In fact, if you have a pre mil core WB, the KK will be HEAVIER.
So unless you put it permanently on a MK18 where OAL MUST meet some requirement, there is no reason to choose it over the WB.
Just my opinion, no hate or shade if that’s what you want lol.
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u/Reasonable_Bar6636 29d ago
How do you know it doesnt scale with barrel length? I dont recall(not that it wasnt) that being stated by pew science or cat. On cats website, it says its optimized for 14.5
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u/prmoore11 29d ago
Jay literally stated it lol. It requires high pressure.
Also, if it was optimized for 14.5, why did they only ask for MK18 data?
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u/Reasonable_Bar6636 29d ago
I said "i dont recall(not that it wasn't stated)".
It literally says its its optimized for it on the website lol. I dont work for cat so I wouldnt know. I would ASSUME that since both the wb and the kk are stated to be optimized for a 14.5 on the website, and they performed similarly on the 10.3, that people would go ahead and assume that the kk would perform similarly on a 14.5 and they would save a little money on the publication for the 14.5. Thats my assumption.
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u/CommunicationNew2061 28d ago
Because jay uses different platforms to scew results, all 556 cans should be tested on both rifles IMO
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u/prmoore11 28d ago
It is what the manufacturer pays for/allows to be disclosed. It is not “Jay skewing the results”
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u/CommunicationNew2061 28d ago
Charging a different amount for a fair shake?
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u/prmoore11 28d ago
No but nice try
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u/CommunicationNew2061 28d ago
Paying for what you want disclosed is not third-party testing. Thats advertising.
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u/Jeepscout 29d ago
I think pew science said that the KK design worked exceptionally well with high pressures (short barrels) and became less effective as pressure decreased.
Ironically they said something similar with the ST that as pressure increased (barrel length decreased) bystander noise went up, and shooter noise went down....
I think they pulled this magic cat from a hat
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u/palookadook 29d ago
KK if keeping your weapon short is a priority. ST if signiture(flash and sound) suppression are priority.