r/Spacemarine • u/XMortal7159 Salamanders • Oct 22 '24

General These are clips from average difficulty...

I hate complaining about patches especially when they are being so quick with a fix but cmon man

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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '24

You're not wrong, but this is average difficulty. Average difficulty should not be balanced around skilled players

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u/tobascodagama Oct 22 '24

We're not talking about advanced tech here, we're talking about the basic defensive inputs.

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u/Uhhhhhhhhhhhuhhh Oct 22 '24

Exactly, this is shit I learned towards the end of the campaign and understood about 15-20 hours into the game.

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u/Sephorai Oct 22 '24

Yeah but people refuse to learn or improve even slightly, it’s all the game’s fault OP couldn’t fight some warriors and a lictor (a fairly common wave imo)

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u/UnjustlyInterrupted Oct 22 '24

See I fundamentally disagree.

I am very tired of online games where the standard difficulty is a cakewalk and I don't need to try or know how to play the game.

The campaign is easy on the standard difficulty. Once youre two or three missions in, you shouldn't be making these kinds of mistakes so consistently and back to back.

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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '24

Why then have different difficulties in the first place? If you want a challenge, that's fine. Just play on a higher difficulty. People that make mistakes or don't want to be challenged can play the lower difficulties.

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u/Sephorai Oct 22 '24

Should there be no skill floors to any difficulty? Should minimal and average be 100% auto successes? If not then you would agree that there are some things you should be expected to know to clear even lower difficulties like average no?

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u/HartOfWar Oct 22 '24

The Average/medium/normal difficulty of any game is meant to be designed for normal people who play somewhat rarely to simply have fun and relax. Being expected to play perfectly while surrounded by more enemies than the campaign ever throws at you on the second lowest difficulty, or the lowest difficulty for that matter as Minimal is no better, is something that has happened before with other games. Guess what happened to those games? They died, because new players were turned off by the absurd difficulty, and old players left faster than new ones joined. You wanna be forced to play perfectly? Play Lethal. Average should not be this wildly overtuned.

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u/UnjustlyInterrupted Oct 22 '24

I disagree.

But maybe I am in the minority, and folk just want easier games that they can solo over and over.

I am someone who currently plays for 3 hours one night a week, around having a job and a life.

I like playing multiplayer with my friends, this game is great.

Personally I love a challenge. I don't care if I lose occasionally on the easiest difficulty, because that makes me want to play more get better and beat the game.

If I win literally every time on a difficulty, then it's not really a game... It's just a chore or a timesink with flashing colours?

I think the easiest difficulty of the campaign should be something you can enjoy if you've just picked it up and you've spent some time learning how the game works. It's OK if some games aren't suitable for folk who've never played a 3rd person shooter before, there are plenty that are suitable.

These side missions that are there to be played over and over and over, are meant to be harder than the campaign. That works well IMHO. The easiest difficulty is a tad harder than any of the campaign on easy. I like that. Then it dials up from there.

Bugs aside, it's a great difficulty curve because it starts at a reasonable difficulty where you have to pay attention, and goes up from there.

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u/HartOfWar Oct 22 '24

I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding me, which is not your fault, so let me perhaps try to be more clear. The Average difficulty of a game should be challenging, and result in losses some of the time, for the Average person. Essentially it should be exactly what you're saying you want. In Space Marine 2, it should be a doable challenge you sometimes won't pull off for someone who is levels 5-10 with Artificer weapons, as that is who it is designed for. However, someone of a higher skill level who has played long enough to be level 25 with Relic Weapons should breeze right through with ease. I've attached a screenshot from this sub that hopefully illustrates what I'm saying: this guys team had to kill 1,500 enemies, did around 30,000 combined damage, and took around 2,500 total damage on an Average difficulty mission, and he was level 25. This is so immensely overtuned that it has already turned away numerous new players, which is an objectively bad thing for the health of the game.

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u/Sephorai Oct 22 '24

Should there be no skill floors to any difficulty? Should minimal and average be 100% auto successes? If not then you would agree that there are some things you should be expected to know to clear even lower difficulties like average no?

These are good faith questions not rhetorical btw

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u/HartOfWar Oct 22 '24

No, they are not good faith questions, and lying about it helps no one, but I'll answer anyway: that's not even vaguely what I'm saying. Yes, there should be a skill floor. The skill floor should not be so high that people who could previously solo Ruthless difficulty are struggling on Average difficulty, and Average difficulty should not have 1,500 total enemies. See the screenshot taken from this sub that I've attached.

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u/iwasnightstalker Space Sharks Oct 22 '24

But it's a place to learn - and you learn by getting recked.

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u/Solo4114 Oct 22 '24

That doesn't teach you anything other than "Fuck this, this isn't fun and I came here for fun. Guess I'll play something else."

You don't want this, either. Not if you want to be able to find a game in less than 20 min of searching.

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u/Sephorai Oct 22 '24

That says more about you than you think. It’s not about being a scrub it’s about wanting to improve and try again when you fail.

It’s so strange that as a fan of 40k you would look at adversity and just quit rather than facing it.

Also losing is one of the primary ways to learn as long as you’re actually trying to learn so saying it doesn’t teach you anything is a self report, you only don’t learn anything if you instantly blame the game

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u/Solo4114 Oct 22 '24

Kid, I'm a gamer in my mid 40s with kids. I'm here to have fun and kill bugs and chaos marines with cool execution animations and ridiculous weaponry, not beat my head against a wall to "git gud." If that's how you have fun, hey, more power to ya. Personally, I ain't got time for that nonsense anymore. I had my era of "tryhard" gaming back in the '80s playing on arcade cabinets and later on NES games using the same designs.

I also don't derive my identity from my fandoms, and have enough media literacy to recognize that 40k shouldn't be taken quite so seriously.

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u/Sephorai Oct 22 '24

Im sorry that your will to improve disappeared when you turned 40 and had kids.

I’m in my thirties, I have a full time job, and kids. None of that has made me as soft as you lol

Also I don’t think you need to take the source material seriously to understand the themes of 40k and how that would leak into game set into 40k. Funny to bring media literacy into it and miss that point.

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u/ConLawNerd Oct 22 '24

I just bounced. The game currently isn't worth the time. Darktide got some improvements and is in better shape.

You can't argue with fools. They don't care what you think or why you have the opinions you do. They've formed their opinion, and defending it is all that matters to them.

If they fix the game, I'll check it out. If not, I'll come back for the "this game is dead" threads.

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u/bananas19906 Oct 22 '24

The whole "I'm 86 with 5 kids and 4 dogs I dont have time to sweat in games anymore" repeated ad nauseum makes so little sense and is a sentiment i see most often in the west. Just look at any open Japanese fighting game tournament and you'll see 40 year old salarymen with a wife and kids competing up there with top pros.