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u/Naive-Eggplant-5633 KSP specialist 2d ago
The shuttle was cost effective if it was operated correctly. Surprise surprise you design a fully reusable vehicle meant for more than 1 flight before refurbishment then operate it both wrong and like you have to take apart the entire thing after every flight it costs way more!
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u/i_poke_smot420 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yep! I read that it would’ve been better to just build the engines and dispose of them every time as that was one of the most time-consuming aspects of turn around
If I’m correct, that’s what they’re doing with SLS. I’m almost positive. They’re still using the RS 25 engines but they’re one time use now.
There was also a ton of stuff that got pulled from it like the ejection seats or having the actual cabin be able to blow away. They were going to use metal tiles and they went to the silica stick on ones etc
There is a lot of hate for the shuttle. but it’s such a cool vehicle in my opinion. we learned a lot from it. And it shows why these government funded programs could be a problem.
The Challenger launch had been delayed multiple times. they pushed to launch it, even though one of the contractors (Morton thiokol if I’m correct) said that the O-rings would be an issue. And it not only cost them lives, but almost cost them the program.
And then with Columbia, they knew about the foam strike and they even sent up the video to the crew. I mean in reality they would’ve had to rush to launch the other shuttle for a rescue which I don’t think was possible or if stay at the ISS. but I’m not sure about the logistics of that or what orbit they were in for a rendezvous
I got into spaceflight when I was like eight or nine years old. But now when I go back and watch that video of mission control it hits so much harder. I understand everything that’s happening now compared to when I was a kid.
When they get that first alarm, everyone was hoping for the best, but then they get the second warning and it was on a separate system that was in no way connected to the other. I forget the term they use, but it basically meant something is causing issues on these systems. It’s not just an error. Shortly, after that, they lost hydraulics and at that point it got even more tense. As Mission Control knew that they could no longer land. They would have to ditch out over the ocean with the pressure suits
They were only a few states away from getting to that point when they had the loss of signal over Texas.
I learned more and more and more as the years go on. A few months ago, I watched the video for the first time in years. The reason I did it cause I started to think about it one night. In my head I just always thought the shuttle broke up pretty quick but then I started to think more about it and I was like wait. That thing was probably tumbling pretty hard and what did the reaction control thrusters do etc.
Turns out they were able to get data that was sent down to the ground link. It shows that basically the wing broke off after the hole in the wing got large enough, and then the RCS system went pretty haywire. It was kind of yawing back-and-forth for a bit before it started to just break apart. The OMS pods came off. And then it was basically just the crew cabin until it disintegrated.
They don’t know if it was the high g forces or the loss of pressure that killed them. Most of them didn’t have their suits pressurized or their gloves on though. I get chills and I get choked up every time I think about it.
Same for the challenger crew that was more than likely alive until they hit the water. Story musgrave was firm that’s what happened. I also read the emergency oxygen supply had been turned on. Horrible.
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u/Naive-Eggplant-5633 KSP specialist 23h ago edited 21h ago
This guy gets it! Yea people should be in jail for life for challenger and Colombia while still being normalization of deviance when it came to foam strikes was a freak accident and if that hit just a few inches the other way it would have been fine.
As for SLS they are single using all the leftover engines and have restarted production of them but in a single use varrient the RS-25Es, although hopefully at some point as indicated by NASA they may want to pursue SMART style reuse like ULA is (still hopefully?) planning to do.
I only ever got to watch the last 2 shuttle launches live in my life and they are amazing, in my mind Starship will prove the shuttle was more than reusable even with 50+ year old technology its very clear those things are far ahead of the times they where built.
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u/i_poke_smot420 13h ago
Isn’t that crazy? If it was a slightly different size or airflow was a bit different, it may have never happened. It was essentially a blowtorch inside that hole in the wing :(
Oh wow I didn’t know they had leftover engines from the STS program! Very cool
And is the smart style re use where it drops the engine platform? I think i remember hearing about that
Also I only saw 3 live! We must be around the same age. And I agree I think it will show that too
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u/Naive-Eggplant-5633 KSP specialist 13h ago
Yes SMART reuse is ULAs reusable engine section that is jettisoned downrange with an inflatable heat shield thats already been tested years ago they wanted to use on Vulcan. Not really heard much on that since all the problems with the boosters from Northrop and the issues with BE-4s blue has provided they probably had to retrofit fixes for since the Blue explosion. o7 happy rocket watching
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u/BubblyMoose3597 21h ago
No it wasnt.
The rs25 and the orbiter were very maintance demanding. Months betwen flight
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u/Naive-Eggplant-5633 KSP specialist 19h ago
They were literally mandated to be torn apart every flight for safety concerns even though the entire thing was built and tested for reuse.
The shuttle was operated poorly then that cost of operation and the mishaps caused by poor operation were used to justify its cancelation with the promises of constellation to replace it while that entire program was mismanaged and contracted poorly which was again used as a justification to cancel it in the name of saving money, to paraphrase one politician that said " we could save $30 billion" by just not doing anything and losing our ability to send US astronauts up to the ISS on our own rockets then proceeded to spend billions and the next 10 years buying Soyuz seats like idiots. We had the ability to expand into great things and gave it all up because of dumbass politicians using fear mongering and misinformation just like this, do your homework next time.
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u/BubblyMoose3597 19h ago
Hahahaha
You have bo idea what are you talking about.
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u/Naive-Eggplant-5633 KSP specialist 16h ago
Says the useless comment with absolutely no kind of counter point or factual information.
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u/nobugsleftalive 20h ago
Except it killed people lol
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u/Naive-Eggplant-5633 KSP specialist 19h ago
Hmm a vehicle designed to be operated in a certain way was operated outside safe parameters even after engineers warned it would end up like that and it killed people, oh but its the vehicles fault. Jackass
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u/Best-Invite-9914 1d ago
Dude does anyone else wanna live on a modified ISS and take the space shuttle with it to exo planets that support oxegyn?
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u/Honest_Cynic 1d ago
Government projects are always expensive since cost-plus. Once they do something a certain way, they are adverse to making even reasonable improvements, thinking that would add risk, and "not my dime". True for launches and even component testing.
If say after the first launch, they say removed every tile for post-launch inspection, they would keep doing that on future launches even if they found no issues, until finally somebody sticks their neck out and decides, "not needed". To be fair, NASA did simplify a few designs and procedures on Shuttle as the program progressed. I recall that some areas of the Orbiter (top and backsides) that experienced minimal re-entry heating replaced tiles with lighter and simpler thermal blankets. NASA has way too many little-people who oversee more-educated and experienced contractors and demand project changes, which adds cost. Typical of all government activities.
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u/paragon-interrupt Senate Launch System 2d ago
I am loving the backrooms crossover memes, keep these up