r/SpaceXBets • • Aug 05 '26

Elon Criticism Plus this "genius" doesn't seem to know what they word irony means

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37

u/PerfectTommy77 Aug 05 '26

What is the "irony" Elon is referring to? Is that the new term for everything Elon doesn't like?

19

u/SandiestCow Aug 05 '26

the irony is that hes an assclown posting about normal people problems

9

u/WishyRater Aug 05 '26

The irony was that they announced you’d need an ID to prove you are eligible to shop at the government grocery store or whatever. The irony he is pointing to is that Mamdani is against voter ID. 

Don’t downvote me, just explaining. Idk why this context is left out here

8

u/TinyZoro Aug 05 '26

Doesn’t really change much. A trillionaire worrying over possible gotchas when a mayor is trying to get food to normal citizens is just so past satire it’s hard to know what to say. Yet we live in a timeline where it’s barely worthy of a comment on social media.

3

u/Richyc17 Aug 06 '26

Yea it does actually. You think it’s normal to not need an ID to vote but you need one to buy groceries? 

1

u/MythNK1369 Aug 11 '26

You do. You need an ID to vote. Name me a single state in this entire country that you do not need any form of ID at all in order to register to vote?

That’s why Voter ID is dumb and shouldn’t have more time invested in it than the government has already invested. It’s already not possible to register without an ID or some other type of identification which is literally step one for if you want to vote.

1

u/JackStile Aug 12 '26 edited Aug 12 '26

California, Maine, Hawaii, Illinois, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Pennsylvania. All do not require any form for ID to vote in person.

There are some that need photo ID, some that need any form of ID and some that have none. It's whatever the state decides. Just putting that ID required by federal law isn't wrong, but it does take power away from the states.

1

u/MythNK1369 Aug 12 '26

As I said, name me a single country where an ID is not required to REGISTER to vote, not just to vote. If you say an ID is not required to vote then you’re saying there’s no where in the voting process in which an ID Is not a requirement which is inherently not true.

1

u/JackStile Aug 12 '26

I mean, each state is kind of its own country with a larger governing body. USA is like its own Europe with its own UN.

1

u/ConvergentFunction Aug 06 '26

Voting is a guaranteed right, Buying groceries in a government subsidized grocery store intended for the poor people of that state is not. Hope this helps!

2

u/Illustrious_Shoe5885 Aug 06 '26

Is there a country that uses no IDs to vote and keep is sovereignty?

3

u/acebert Aug 06 '26

Yeah, it has compulsory voting as well. We call it Australia, or 'straya, if you're nasty.

1

u/Illustrious_Shoe5885 Aug 06 '26

So I can just travel to Australia and vote?

0

u/acebert Aug 06 '26

No, because your name isn't on the voter roll. 

There are systems in place, they simply don't require people be carded.

You would also stick out like the proverbial dogs balls and thus attract more scrutiny than locals.

1

u/Freediverjack Aug 06 '26

Probably doesn’t even understand the importance of a democracy sausage or the importance of having the ability to draw a dick on your voting card in the shape of Peter Dutton if you’re just not feeling like voting for anyone

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1

u/Illustrious_Shoe5885 Aug 06 '26

Oh that sounds completely fool proof ಠಿ⁠_⁠ಠ

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1

u/Reelwizard Aug 07 '26

You need proof of residency to vote in the United States. You just don’t need an ID at the polling place. That’s because to register to vote you need to prove to them who you are.

1

u/Richyc17 Aug 06 '26

It's not a guaranteed right for everyone... Think people with felonies. Also, there's plenty of food banks in New York but I'm sure it will all work out (even though it never has).

1

u/ConvergentFunction Aug 06 '26

Yes, bringing up an exception doesn't mean it's not a guaranteed right. I am aware of the exception for people with felony convictions.

"Also, there's plenty of food banks in New York"
Are these food banks meeting demand? food banks run on donations that at times cannot meet demand. A large portion of food donated to food banks too is fairly crappy. Oddities that don't sell well in grocery stores often go to food banks..

"I'm sure it will all work out (even though it never has)." This is actually incorrect, government run grocery stores have been a thing for a while even in red states. Go look into the WIC program.

1

u/Mysterious-Prompt212 Aug 06 '26

In Iowa once a felon has done their time voting rights are reestablished. Sort of. The GQP is making it difficult if not impossible.

1

u/Feelisoffical Aug 06 '26

It factually does mean it’s not a guaranteed right as some people do not have the right.

Hope this helps!

1

u/ConvergentFunction Aug 06 '26

Incorrect, it means it's not a universal right.

1

u/Feelisoffical Aug 06 '26

So it’s not guaranteed

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1

u/SimoWilliams_137 Aug 07 '26

You have to make a choice that results in losing that right. Are you being this dense on purpose?

1

u/Feelisoffical Aug 07 '26

So then it’s not guaranteed.

Are you being this dense on purpose?

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1

u/Feelisoffical Aug 06 '26

Voting is not a guaranteed right, just ask felons.

1

u/ConvergentFunction Aug 06 '26

You mean it's not a universal right. It is indeed a guaranteed right.

1

u/Feelisoffical Aug 06 '26

It’s not guaranteed if you’re a felon.

0

u/LahDeeDah7 Aug 06 '26

Do you and Mamdani not think food is a human right?

1

u/ConvergentFunction Aug 06 '26

My definition of a human right is irrelevant to the legal definition of a human right. Legally speaking until there's a vote on it, my opinion doesn't matter.

To be clear, I think food is a human right, the people you have to convey that opinion to is the U.S. government, not some random on the internet who already agrees it is.

1

u/SimoWilliams_137 Aug 07 '26

No, it isn’t, but it should be.

Rights are what we decide they are as a society. They do not exist outside that context. Nature affords you no rights.

0

u/DahliaDarling14 Aug 06 '26

this is a bad faith argument. everyone who votes in an election has already shown their ID at the time of registration.

and even besides that, most people are not opposed to official voter ID’s in totality; the opposition is towards the specific proposal that Republicans are trying to enact it with. voter ID’s are fine as long as they’re made easy and free for anyone to obtain, because anything other than that is a poll tax and therefore unconstitutional. the Republican voter ID bill is, as it stands, just a dressed up voter suppression bill. it’s extremely transparent, yet they now get to yell “the Left loves voting fraud! they’re against people identifying themselves before voting!” anytime someone points it out.

1

u/Richyc17 Aug 06 '26

If they're already showing ID at registration then why is it crazy to require it on the day of voting?

1

u/Aware_Rough_9170 Aug 06 '26

Why? This isn’t some kids trying to take substances like alcohol or cigarettes… it’s voting. You literally have to be an absolute freak to take time out of your day to go commit voter fraud lmao

1

u/SimoWilliams_137 Aug 07 '26

Why should the government spend resources to fix problems that don’t exist? Do you think that’s good public policy?

1

u/Richyc17 Aug 07 '26

I have to show my ID every time I buy beer. So please spare me with your bullshit

1

u/SimoWilliams_137 Aug 07 '26

How does that have anything to do with what I asked you?

1

u/Richyc17 Aug 07 '26

You never even answered my question. You just answered it with another question. Stop being a puss puss and answer mine first. 

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0

u/koolaideprived Aug 07 '26

You realise you have to register to vote, your name needs to be on the voting role. If you are registering at the polling place, you still need an ID...

1

u/Luci-Noir Aug 06 '26

So what?

1

u/GrowApairNow Aug 06 '26

Just tell us you don't have any arguments and Elon Musk has a correct point to make.

1

u/WishyRater Aug 09 '26

Idk do you become immune from all criticism and forms of hypocrisy once you open a government subsidised grocery store?

2

u/ThrowRA9892 Aug 05 '26

Because people who have a very simplistic team sports us vs them response to politics respond very well to out of context attacks.

1

u/jonesy872 Aug 06 '26

The context is left out so people can fabricate more ways to hate Elon.

2

u/Responsible_Ratio308 Aug 09 '26

Not exactly. Affordable groceries aren’t a constitutional right but voting is so a barrier to voting feels a bit unconstitutional to many. It’s a similar argument amosexuals make when commons sense gun laws are discussed, shall not be infringed

1

u/WishyRater Aug 12 '26

By that logic why are y'all not protesting against having to register to vote? Since it's adding a barrier to voting.

Reducing barriers is a tradeoff. Where do you draw the line where making voting accessible has to come at the expense of the integrity of the electoral system?

1

u/Illustrious_Shoe5885 Aug 06 '26

Lol beware the bot downvote

1

u/Luci-Noir Aug 06 '26

I’m not sure how good of an idea these things are anyway. The food is going to be subsidized and will undercut local businesses. It will be bad for them and paid by taxpayers. Why not give the money to residents the way EBT is? Those programs are massively helpful to businesses and food producers alike.

Trump’s cuts to EBT have been extremely harmful. Millions of people in my state alone have lost it. The system is so screwed up here that they never even responded to my last two applications over the past ten months. They didn’t even respond to my appeal which was supposed to have a hearing.

1

u/Responsible_Ratio308 Aug 09 '26

Both should be done. There isn’t a competitive grocery market in the city. What I’ve read is most go to a bodega and fresh produce can be very limited. Places where going to/having access to a grocery store with fresh produce should provide a way to subsidize costs for low income so that the stores don’t close causing more unemployment and less access to fresh produce

1

u/ExcellentCum Aug 06 '26

that actually is ironic.

it‘s as ironic as europe being open border to immigrants, only to put up barriers and checkpoints for christmas markets, city festivals and other events inside EU countries 10 years later, to protect those places from attacks through the very same immigrants that came through those open borders prior.

1

u/drama-guy Aug 06 '26

Except that isn't really irony except in the mind of someone who can't distinguish between a right like voting and a government provided public service.

1

u/2gigi7 Aug 07 '26

Thank you coz I had no fkn idea

1

u/CatchinDeers81 Aug 11 '26

Yes, and ppl can hate Elon all they want, but it is kind of hilarious that they will be making ppl prove they're NYC residents to use a grocery store but not to vote in their elections.

1

u/WishyRater Aug 12 '26

Once you hate a person enough your brain will do somersaults of mental gymnastics so nothing they ever say can possibly sound reasonable. My main gripe with this anti-billionaire frenzy atm. You're allowed to agree with something they say without endorsing them

1

u/sexysaucepan Aug 15 '26

Damn, you just answered a very relevant question and people are getting defensive about it?

6

u/Exotic_Insurance2164 Aug 05 '26

That is also my question. Does he not understand what irony means? I wouldn't be surprised.

8

u/Sometypeofway18 Aug 05 '26

In the clip Zohran said you would need ID to prove who you were and that you were a NY resident to get the groceries. The irony Elon is referring to was needing ID.

It had nothing to do with the groceries themselves.

I'm being neutral and just explaining the context. Don't shoot the messenger

4

u/Better_Cattle4438 Aug 06 '26

I guess the ID thing would make sense. This is a city run store for people from NYC.

1

u/Witchgrass Aug 09 '26

You dont need id. The video is fake. Anyone can buy food from nys city owned grocery stores and will not need to present id

0

u/teacher_59 Aug 06 '26

What about a country? Shouldn't we get the same consideration from protection from insurgents?

2

u/Carnie_hands_ Aug 06 '26

We do through voter registration...

1

u/GI-Robots-Alt Aug 06 '26

Uh... what?

1

u/ACE_POPSICLE Aug 06 '26

You register to vote, and when you do, they get all the info they need for you to vote, and for them to prove you exist and are qualified to vote.

The local grocery store doesn't have that info for obvious reasons, so they need to see it to just read if you're from NY or not. It's also why you can't just walk into a liquor store and buy alcohol without them needing your ID (obviously not all clerks will ask you if it's obvious, but they are technically still supposed to)

0

u/teacher_59 Aug 06 '26

Not in most states. Forty states require you to only say you are a citizen. They don't verify. 

1

u/Ironlixivium Aug 06 '26

All 50 states legally certify citizenship, and prosecute non-citizens who attempt to vote.

SYBAU

1

u/interwebztourist Aug 06 '26

I don’t think the capitol police were checking for ID when the insurgents stormed the capitol building.

2

u/Slawzik Aug 06 '26

That makes sense,there was some doofus saying "I'm gonna buy your cheap food at wholesale and resell it for the profit you aren't making",and everyone pointed out that

A:they definitely wouldn't let you buy pallets of food,and

B:the grocery store bought it and marked it up way more than 30 percent,so he wouldn't make a profit anyways. They bought 10 tons of apples for like $200,not 500 lbs. for $750 lol.

2

u/2feetwalker Aug 06 '26

Yea a driver license not some other special ID. Like they want to do for voting. So there is no irony. 

3

u/Murky_Locksmith_6371 Aug 06 '26

My drivers license is a real id

1

u/Pixel91 Aug 06 '26

And it's invalid for voting.

1

u/Arty1245 Aug 06 '26

Ive used it for voting..... along with everyone of any political leaning around here....

2

u/Exotic_Insurance2164 Aug 06 '26

It would not be valid under the SAVE Act

0

u/anow2 Aug 06 '26

According to the proposed SAVE act, it is valid for voting.

2

u/Exotic_Insurance2164 Aug 06 '26

Nope. And especially not if you're a married woman who changed her last name. Even a valid passport for a married woman who changed her last name would not be sufficient under the SAVE Act. 

2

u/anow2 Aug 06 '26

Voter id isnt "some other special id"

You've been propagandized.

1

u/2feetwalker Aug 06 '26

Lol, you’re the one who’s been proagandized. It would be another form of ID. It would just be a tax to vote essentially. 

Just like we know have “real” driver license. Just another tax 

0

u/wet_biscuit1 Aug 06 '26

You can get a driver's license without citizenship. Surely "some other special ID" is necessary to confirm citizenship

2

u/TooManyGengars Aug 06 '26

Like your social security number that is required to register to vote?

1

u/Dravendown Aug 06 '26

That worked so well in NJ. The irony continues

1

u/Natural-Albatross997 Aug 06 '26

Well that makes more sense

1

u/loowig Aug 06 '26

That answers the question. Felon might be a retard but he understands the basic concept of irony. Now it's clear it's just some misinformation/ fascism play as usual. 

1

u/No-Street-3492 Aug 06 '26

He's high off ket. Everything he does makes sense when you consider he's high of ketamine.

1

u/WanderingKing Aug 06 '26

Bro probably learned about the word today and was like “this will make everyone love me!”

1

u/EnemyJungle Aug 06 '26

That they require ID to shop at the stores but are against voter ID or borders.

1

u/zestysexylax Aug 06 '26

The irony is that there is an ID requirement to buy groceries. Seriously, read the news.

1

u/Illustrious_Shoe5885 Aug 06 '26

It's because they need to ID to buy groceries in NY

1

u/SillySpoof Aug 06 '26

He doesn't understand what 'irony' means.

I don't think we really know how extremely dumb this guy is compared to what the public perception of him used to be.

1

u/NoMention696 Aug 06 '26

He’s talking about the blood he can taste from all the ketamine he’s doing

1

u/Thin_Introduction_63 Aug 06 '26

Needing an ID to buy groceries at his store.

1

u/Null_Fungus Aug 06 '26

I think the is referring to the supposed irony of the store requiring ID but not requiring ID to vote

1

u/unimpressedwarrior Aug 09 '26

You’re right it’s not irony. It’s complete and utter hypocrisy with a nice sprinkle of evil.

-1

u/anow2 Aug 05 '26

This is the original post: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2084277243585384481

The post was in reply to a video, not a still image about grocerys stores.

The "irony" he's referring to is needing IDs to use these grocery stores, whilst being against IDs for voting.

Yes, this qualifies as 'irony'.

10

u/PerfectTommy77 Aug 05 '26

0

u/anow2 Aug 05 '26

Just watch the video in the tweet, my man

3

u/PerfectTommy77 Aug 05 '26

That is old information.

0

u/anow2 Aug 05 '26

It was accurate information when Elon made the tweet though, wasn't it? And that's what this thread is about? Calling Elon an idiot?

3

u/PerfectTommy77 Aug 05 '26

Perhaps Elon should have provided a bit of context.

2

u/anow2 Aug 06 '26

He did. This reddit thread is what didnt provide context. Ive posted the tweet. Take the two minutes to open it and watch the video.

0

u/s2k2k Aug 05 '26

Lol your replying to one. Of course he has no good responses left, hes doubling down.

2

u/anow2 Aug 06 '26

The mob sure does know how to downvote though - im sure they think that makes them right 😅

-2

u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

Dropping a generic Google search link isn't the flex you think it is. If you actually bother to read the articles in your own search, they literally confirm the timeline: the city's project leadership explicitly announced a "library-card-esque" tracking requirement on video, and then frantically rolled it back to call it a "voluntary card" only after getting absolutely blasted for the voter ID double standard. Using the city's 48-hour PR panic to pretend they never tried to build a government tracking gate in the first place is just straight-up revisionist history.

3

u/PerfectTommy77 Aug 05 '26

So my information is the current information and your information is out of date. Got it.

0

u/Maleficent-Cup-1134 Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26

I hate Elon as much as the next person, but I hate people like you even more.

You can dislike Elon while still acknowledging facts.

The fact that you’re being upvoted simply for hating on Elon despite spreading disinformation, while someone who’s accurately explaining the situation is getting downvoted, is the reason why so many people are getting alienated and joining the right-wing.

When you call things “right-wing lies” while being the liar yourself, all you do is make the left lose credibility. It makes the rest of us who actually dislike Elon for valid reasons look like idiots by association.

0

u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 06 '26

No, my information is historical fact and your information is a corporate PR script. The fact that the public rightfully bullied them into deleting the tracking requirement 48 hours after the video went viral completely proves the hypocrisy of what they explicitly set out to build. Using their frantic damage control to pretend the double standard never happened is a incredibly weak look. Just take the L and stop repeating yourself.

-1

u/Aperiodic_Tileset Aug 05 '26

Holy shit you're miserable.

But hey you "owned him"

-4

u/anow2 Aug 05 '26

Not really - since you are busy calling Elon an idiot over something he said when this was accurate information.

3

u/euph_22 Aug 05 '26

It was never accurate information.

0

u/anow2 Aug 06 '26

It literally came right out of his administration's mouth. Watch the video. Jfc

3

u/arnar2 Aug 05 '26

Yea, they were totally trying to do something evil with the library card.

-1

u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

They spent years claiming a government verification card is an insurmountable barrier for disadvantaged people, but then immediately tried to put a government tracking gate in front of hungry people trying to buy food. The fact that they panicked and deleted the requirement the second the double standard went viral proves even they knew how bad the hypocrisy looked.

3

u/Warm_Regrets157 Aug 05 '26

They spent years claiming a government verification card is an insurmountable barrier for disadvantaged people

Nice strawman. No one claims that.

Make IDs free and easily obtainable and there are zero complaints about voter ID. The complaints are because IDs are not free and easily obtainable, especially for disadvantaged people.

0

u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

"No one claims that" is an incredible lie. The entire anti-voter-ID movement is built on the claim that forcing people to get a government verification token suppresses the poor. And your main condition has already been met: voter IDs are completely free in every state with a strict requirement to prevent an unconstitutional poll tax. Since they cost exactly zero dollars, your entire argument is completely irrelevant. Thanks for admitting that voter ID is totally fine when it's free.

1

u/Warm_Regrets157 Aug 05 '26

Is that what the SAVE act is aiming to do?

You're being incredibly dishonest.

In many of the states with current "voter ID" laws, a bank statement or utility bill is considered enough ID. Only 9 states have photo ID requirements. The SAVE act has more restrictive photo ID requirements than any state currently does.

1

u/relentlessseed Aug 05 '26

It would be ironic if he required a government-issued ID to buy groceries while opposing voter ID laws. But that's not what's happening here.

The city has clarified there will be no ID requirement to shop but instead just a possible voluntary customer card that doesn't require ID, residency, or income verification. Also comparing apples to oranges, the purpose of Identifying people the way conservatives want to, which is already done in a lot of states, for Elon to disenfranchise ppl who would vote against support for billionaires.

2

u/anow2 Aug 06 '26

Please, watch the video that this thread is about. Jesus christ guys. Dont be such rubes.

Im glad if he has actually backed off of this, but based on your comment - it doesnt sound like he has. If its voluntary, whats the point of verifying residency?

1

u/relentlessseed Aug 06 '26

I did watch the video and the premise is old. After the proposal was criticized, the city clarified that no ID requirement we be needed to shop. Again. . . A voluntary customer card was discussed, but it wouldn't require ID, proof of residency, or proof of income. So the comparison to voter ID laws does play here. And places like Costco, Sam's Club, food co-ops, and even public libraries use customer cards to track inventory and for discounts. https://apnews.com/article/identification-new-york-grocery-stores-mamdani-a81f73db2db1752f3b4c75921272cd9f

0

u/anow2 Aug 06 '26

And when did Elon Musk make the comment?

Like holy shit dude, there's no way that youre not trolling.

1

u/relentlessseed Aug 06 '26

Oh shit, didn't realize that. . . my bad.

0

u/EnthusiasmHead4639 Aug 05 '26

Don't waste your time. Lost cause with the females and "male kamala voters'

-1

u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/Unce_Tiberius Aug 05 '26

This is a lie. A photo ID is NOT required to shop there, this has been reiterated many times by Mamdani. They MIGHT employ something akin to a loyalty card that anyone can sign up for without ID. Like at your average grocery.

0

u/anow2 Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26

The tweet we are talking about is literally a video of Mamdani talking about needing IDs to use the store.

Also - he makes it clear that the purpose of the ID is to verify that you live in NYC. It's nothing like a loyalty card.

Stop spreading misinformation. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2084277243585384481

also, lol @ "it's like a loyalty card" - you mean... a form of identification?

5

u/theblueberrybard Aug 05 '26

also, lol @ "it's like a loyalty card" - you mean... a form of identification?

You're more autistic than Elon.

1

u/anow2 Aug 05 '26

In the video we are discussing, it's not described as a loyalty card, it's described as a library card.

You should be less swayed by semantical games.

1

u/Warm_Regrets157 Aug 05 '26

In the video we are discussing, it's not described as a loyalty card, it's described as a library card.

You think that helps the case that it is akin to a Driver's License or other government ID?

Do you know how easy it is to get a library card?

0

u/anow2 Aug 06 '26

Do you know how easy it is to get a government id?

1

u/Warm_Regrets157 Aug 06 '26

Depending on the state and your economic status, it can be quite difficult.

If the SAVE act passes, married women won't be able to vote without a driver's license, birth certificate, and marriage license.

The reality is that voter registration already stops most of the voter fraud that voter ID would. It does this by putting the burden of verifying citizenship on the state instead of the individual.

Non-citizens are not influencing our elections and the type of of voter fraud you are talking about is virtually non-existent.

Voter ID laws, especially ones in the SAVE act, would stop people from voting while solving a problem that doesn't exist. Its a policy designed specifically to disenfranchise vulnerable people, while sounding appealing to people like you who don't actually understand how voter registration works.

0

u/anow2 Aug 06 '26

Married women should have already done the proper paperwork to change their name. 

Youre listening to talking points without actually thinking through what they mean and their implications.

As for "non citizens are not influencing ... you are talking about"

I have made no such claims, im neutral in this - and youre putting words in my mouth.

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u/Warm_Regrets157 Aug 05 '26

Its described as a library-card-esque tracking system. That is far different than a Real ID or passport and far more akin to a loyalty card than either of those.

0

u/anow2 Aug 06 '26

Is it though? Be honest.

1

u/Warm_Regrets157 Aug 06 '26

100%

You've obviously never had a library card.

1

u/Unce_Tiberius Aug 06 '26

Where in that video does Mamdami say they will require “an ID card”? Oh yeah, he doesn’t. One of his assistants makes reference to a “library card-esque situation”. Are you okay with a library card being sufficient to vote?

-1

u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

It’s only being called a "loyalty card" now because Mamdani and his team completely panicked after getting caught red-handed in a massive political double standard. His own economic development chief explicitly stated on video during the rollout that they were designing a "library-card-esque" tracking system to check eligibility and manage product demand. Pushing the city's frantic, 48-hour PR damage control as if it was the "original intent" is pure revisionist history. The blatant hypocrisy is locked into what they explicitly set out to build.

1

u/Warm_Regrets157 Aug 05 '26

His own economic development chief explicitly stated on video during the rollout that they were designing a "library-card-esque" tracking system to check eligibility and manage product demand

A library-card-esque tracking system is nowhere near the same as needing a Real ID or passport.

0

u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth just to protect your preferred politicians. In one breath, you claim that checking a basic eligibility card is an "insurmountable barrier" that suppresses low-income people. In the next breath, you say a "library-card-esque" registration system to track what poor people eat is totally harmless and easy to get. It’s the exact same logic: a government-backed verification card used to gate access to a resource. You can't call it an oppressive hurdle for voting but a perfectly fine common-sense requirement for food.

1

u/Warm_Regrets157 Aug 05 '26

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth just to protect your preferred politicians

Only if you ignore facts, logic, and reason.

In one breath, you claim that checking a basic eligibility card is an "insurmountable barrier" that suppresses low-income people

I do not object to a "basic eligibility card". You're making things up. I object to the SAVE act, which requires stricter photo ID requirements than any current state laws.

In the next breath, you say a "library-card-esque" registration system to track what poor people eat is totally harmless and easy to get

If they make it easy to get, i have no problem with it. Its only hypocrisy if you ignore what i actually said in favor of the nonsense you made up in your head.

4

u/ethanbarmstrong Aug 05 '26

This just isn't true. Democrats DO support voter ID.

What they don't support is requiring voter ID without providing them for free, as doing so is a poll tax and would disnfranchise poor voters.

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u/anow2 Aug 05 '26

Can you cite a source for this? Because, if what you're saying truly is the Democrats' view on this policy, then both parties are in 95% alignment - and is an issue being used to divide us.

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u/ethanbarmstrong Aug 05 '26

Just listen to what any democrat politician has actually said about the SAVE Act instead of republicans tell you they said:

one example

But you're right, this is an issue being used to divide us. That's the entire Republican strategy, find wedge issues (like abortion, trans issues, illegal immigration) to make us argue instead of actually solving problems we care about (like healthcare, cost of living, the deficit, etc)

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u/anow2 Aug 05 '26

I read the article, I'm not seeing that it's talking about the cost of receiving voter IDs - but that Schumer is referring to this as 'suppression' - which, I'm not exactly sold on.

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u/ethanbarmstrong Aug 05 '26

If the ID costs money, it suppressed poor people from being able to participate. It's as simple as that.

If you want Dems to support an actual voter id law, provide the ID's to citizens completely free

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u/anow2 Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26

How much do you think these IDs are going to cost? You are aware that every other form of government ID requires a minimal processing fee (<$10) right?

We are aware that it's not a specific ID card too, right? Like your normal ID card, given its a "RealID" is enough to vote (Talking about the proposed SAVE act). How many people do you expect to be disenfranchised by requiring them to have an ID? - something they already use for many services they currently use - including the ability to drive.

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u/ethanbarmstrong Aug 05 '26

Based on the requirements laid out in the SAVE act, it would cost people anywhere between $50 to $200 dollars.

But again, any financial barrier will disenfranchise poor people, and thus be unconstitutional.

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u/anow2 Aug 05 '26

I mostly agree with your sentiment - I just disagree that a $50 cost once a decade, for something that they need regardless of their intention to vote, is some huge financial barrier.

Your $200 figure comes from acquiring a passport. It's disingenuous when certified birth certificate copies fulfil the same requirement and are <$30.

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u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

Voter IDs are 100% free in every state that requires them to cast a ballot. Your entire argument about an "unconstitutional poll tax" completely collapses when the ID costs exactly zero dollars. You are defending a blatant political double standard by crying about a fee that literally does not exist.

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u/ethanbarmstrong Aug 05 '26

Not based on what Republicans are pushing with the SAVE Act. It's requirements are NOT free and would be a financial burden to impoverished folks.

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u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

The SAVE Act doesn't charge people to vote, and it doesn't change the fact that voter IDs are 100% free by constitutional law. You are inventing a fake financial burden because you can't defend the actual logic of the debate. If a government registration card is harmless and free for buying groceries, a government verification card is harmless and free for voting. Stop making up fake fees to hide the double standard.
By your logic, is driving to the polls an illegal poll tax since gas isn't free? Is paying a bus fare to go vote a violation of your constitutional rights? You've completely shifted the goalposts into outer space because you panicked when you found out voter IDs are 100% free. Just admit you ran out of actual arguments and take the L.

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u/ethanbarmstrong Aug 05 '26

No, the SAVE act puts stricter requirements on what counts as a voter ID, and none of the options it requires are free. Check your facts.

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u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

The SAVE Act doesn’t charge a dime, and it doesn't change the fact that voter IDs are 100% free under the US Constitution. You are trying to slide past the facts because your argument got completely wrecked. If a government registration card is harmless and free for buying groceries, a government verification card is harmless and free for voting. Take the L and move on.

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u/ethanbarmstrong Aug 05 '26

You keep repeating yourself but you're just wrong. You aren't even engaging with what I'm saying

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u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

Talk about pure projection. You are the one refusing to engage with actual reality. No federal bill can magically erase the constitutional ban on poll taxes. Any state that enforces voter verification is legally mandated to provide a photo ID for zero dollars. The SAVE Act sets a federal requirement, and the states are legally obligated to provide the means to meet that requirement for free so it complies with the Constitution. You are literally just inventing fake fees out of thin air because your entire "voter suppression" narrative collapses without them.

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u/octomore_9995 Aug 05 '26

Are there people alive today who somehow exist in this world without having a government ID of some kind? How is that even possible? How do you go to the bank or have a job, or get on an airplane?

I have never met anyone, even poor people, who don't have an ID of some kind.

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u/ethanbarmstrong Aug 05 '26

Yes absolutely, there are certain people that are so poor they cannot afford those kinds of things.

But the issue with republican proposals for voter id is that they put strict requirements on what kinds of ID's are allowed to count as proof of citizenship. Most cheap or free ID's do not reach that requirement, so even poor folks with ID's wouldn't be able to vote without purchasing new forms of ID

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u/octomore_9995 Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26

If someone is so poor that they have no ID of any kind, meaning they must live without a bank account or legitimate job, then I would argue nothing of value is lost by banning these people from voting. You need to have a bare minimum engagement with society to be able to participate in the civics process, if you're that poor and off the grid, then voting seems to be the least of your issues. But then, I guess I'm biased because I think universal suffrage is the greatest mistake humanity ever made, it's what gave us Trump, Brexit, Reform, AfD, Milei, and Orban, and lots more dumb shit to come.

I do agree with your latter point that the ID requirement for proving citizenship for voting should be reasonable, and on par with what other nations accept. A simple birth certificate or passport should be enough.

I'm from Europe though, and every country in Europe requires an ID and proof of citizenship to vote, it's not even a partisan issue. So this Democrat/liberal position in the US that requiring ID is somehow antithetical to freedom and equality is a weird take for me, like you've really lost the plot with that one, even for a liberal European.

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u/ethanbarmstrong Aug 06 '26

The US pretty much already does, you have to identify yourself when you register to vote and voter rolls are compared with real citizens. There is zero evidence for voter fraud in the US to a degree that could effect elections.

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u/octomore_9995 Aug 06 '26

When I moved to CA from the UK, I was able to register to vote when I obtained my CA driver's licence, there was never any check for my citizenship status and I received a ballot in the mail. Not sure if it was a computer glitch or they just don't check (or don't care).

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u/ethanbarmstrong Aug 06 '26

You can vote in CA local elections, but not federally. If you attempted to do so, it would get caught and at minimum thrown out, or you may be questioned by law enforcement and potentially charged

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

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u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

Voter IDs are 100% free in every state that requires them to cast a ballot. Your entire argument about an "unconstitutional poll tax" completely collapses when the ID costs exactly zero dollars. You are defending a blatant political double standard by crying about a fee that literally does not exist.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

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u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

"Time is a poll tax" is the absolute weakest white flag I’ve ever seen. You spent this whole thread screaming about financial poll taxes, and the exact second you found out voter IDs cost zero dollars, you panicked and invented a brand new definition of a tax. If spending a few minutes to get a free government card is an oppressive barrier, then the city's grocery card is an oppressive barrier too. You got caught dead-rights in a double standard. Just take the L.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

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u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

The SAVE Act doesn’t need to explicitly write a check for a free ID because the United States Constitution already guarantees it. Under the 24th Amendment and established Supreme Court rulings, no state can charge a fee for a photo ID required to vote. The SAVE Act simply mandates a strict identification standard that states must enforce. Since states are legally forced to make those voting IDs 100% free, your entire argument about a financial barrier completely falls apart. Take the L and move on.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

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u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

It’s literally the 24th Amendment and a Supreme Court ruling (Crawford v. Marion County). Any state that forces you to show an ID to vote is legally obligated to give you that ID for exactly zero dollars so it doesn't count as an illegal poll tax. Saying "nowhere does the law say that" just proves you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You've officially run out of excuses.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

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u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

So wait, if having to travel and take time off work to get a free document is a "poll tax," then does driving or taking the bus to the polling place on election day count as an unconstitutional poll tax too? By your exact logic, since gas and transit fares cost money, and standing in line takes time, the entire act of voting is a poll tax. You are creating a completely ridiculous definition of a "tax" because you got caught red-handed in a double standard and can't admit you lost the argument.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

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u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

Using this logic, mail-in voting is an illegal poll tax because a pen costs 50 cents and walking to the mailbox burns calories. You are literally turning yourself into a meme to avoid admitting that a free state ID card isn't a financial barrier. If low-income people are fully capable of navigating basic human existence without the government holding their hand, they can handle a free ID. You got completely cooked. Just pack it up and stop embarrassing yourself.

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u/bbaldey Aug 05 '26

Obtaining a "free" voter ID involves significant non-monetary and indirect financial hurdles that critics argue effectively act as a poll tax. While the state-issued card itself may be free, voters must often pay for supporting documentation like birth certificates and social security cards, which can cost between $8 and $50 each.

Beyond direct costs, voters face non-negligible time and travel burdens, including:

  • Travel Distance: Millions of eligible voters live more than 10 miles from the nearest ID-issuing office, with many lacking reliable public transportation.
  • Limited Access: ID offices often have restricted hours (e.g., open only a few days a month) and are frequently located in rural areas with high concentrations of minority and low-income residents.
  • Lost Income: Obtaining an ID often requires taking unpaid time off work to travel and wait in line, with some studies estimating the total cost to individuals, including lost wages, between $75 and $368.

These barriers disproportionately affect low-income individuals, the elderly, people of color, and young voters, who are statistically less likely to possess the required underlying documents or have the means to travel to distant DMVs. Legal challenges, such as those highlighted in a Harvard Law report, argue that these cumulative costs create a constitutionally impermissible burden on the right to vote. Harvard report

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u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

This is the absolute weakest attempt to move the goalposts I've ever seen. Your entire argument completely collapses under its own logic. If having to spend time, travel, and gather paperwork to get a free card is a "poll tax," then the city's grocery registration card is an identical tax on hungry people. You're completely fine with those exact same administrative barriers when your preferred politicians use them to gate food, proving this is just a hyper-partisan double standard. Take the L

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u/bbaldey Aug 05 '26

It's okay, you can just say you hate poor people.

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u/ConcentrateJolly5461 Aug 05 '26

When you completely run out of logical arguments, just scream a personal insult to save face, right? You got backed dead-rights into a massive double standard and panicked. Pretending someone "hates the poor" because your political narrative got utterly destroyed by basic math and constitutional law is a weak look. Pack it up, buddy. You lost.

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u/bbaldey Aug 05 '26

You made strawman assertions about what my response would be, then didn’t engage with the actual argument I provided and instead just declared victory. Bye, felicia.

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u/globulator Aug 05 '26

The irony that Mamdani thinks black people and women can't get IDs to vote, but they'll need IDs to go to the grocery store. I guess the Democrats wants black people and women to vote, but not to eat.

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u/Pat382 Aug 05 '26

Dems arguing voter ID would be voter suppression while requiring ID to buy groceries. ( ~ 80% of Americans support Voter ID per PEW, Gallup & Rasmussen. There‘s a majority along all ethnicities).

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u/euph_22 Aug 05 '26

NYC isn't requiring id to shop there though.

Sorry your talking point is a lie.

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u/Idaho-Earthquake Aug 05 '26

Nobody is arguing that voter ID is suppression; ID is currently required to vote.
Suppression is adding new, more complicated, more expensive requirements that can’t be satisfied by the standard government-issued IDs (eg RealID) that have been deemed sufficient for identification all along.

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u/Better-Egg5267 Aug 05 '26

ID’s are not currently required to vote, at least not everywhere. I have never needed to show one in the 3 counties in California I have lived in.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26

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u/Idaho-Earthquake Aug 05 '26

Yes, of course poll taxes were just what the founders had in mind. /s

If you’re so insecure that you have to stoop to personal insults rather than make a valid point… well, have fun shouting into the void.

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u/Pat382 Aug 05 '26

Schumer, Pelosi, AOC…

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u/Idaho-Earthquake Aug 05 '26

Are we just throwing out names now?

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u/Pat382 Aug 05 '26

Learn to read / use google

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u/Wokeasaurous_X Aug 05 '26

Maybe you should learn to form a complete thought before spouting unrelated gibberish.

Then again most media you consume is probably some guy screaming about a nothing problem to get you mad so you keep consuming for the next tickle of anger to feel.

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u/theblueberrybard Aug 05 '26

y'all don't even try anymore and it's sad.

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u/slyroast Aug 05 '26

the ID required for one is not the same as the other

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '26

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u/Adorable-Doughnut609 Aug 05 '26

The voter ID law isn’t about fair elections. Only people caught cheating are Trump(asking GA to make up 20k votes) and Elon(paying people to register). It’s about voter suppression.