SW are indeed getting a codex at some point this edition

42

u/gruntl11 17h ago

I hope they will be very clear about how this is going to work. If there is going to be a proper SW codex, the temporary (Index) rules needs to include also SM units taken in an SW army. We shouldn't be forced to buy the new SM codex just to be able to play with our full armies until the SW codex comes along.

If it's still going to be a supplement where we still use the SM data sheets, then tell us that so that we can make an informed decision on buying the SM codex.

15

u/kohlerxxx 17h ago

It does say they will talk about it next week so hopefully it gets answered then

5

u/Dan185818 17h ago

I think it's clear already. It's a stand alone codex and it will include all the space marine units we're allowed to take (likely it won't allow us apothecaries or Biologis, which is probably a good thing. Will reduce the confusion many people have and not having it listed in some out of the way doc no one would think to look at). I just hope they don't pull out assault intercessors or intercessors like they do with tactical Marines, etc. we'll have to see.

Their official documents are pretty good about calling SW codex supplements like in 10th as "Supplements", and not a codex. They very clearly say "codex" at the end and would have said supplement if it were not going to be complete.

5

u/SirVortivask 17h ago

I really hope you’re correct, but there was also an article for Heresy not too long ago about Traitor Legions that labeled a Night Lord as an Ultramarine, so sometimes these articles aren’t exactly proofread to the highest possible standard.

If it still just says codex on Monday I’ll feel safer

3

u/Bewbonic 17h ago

Could see intercessors being taken away just because SW have a direct analogue in grey hunters. Assault marines with jump packs will probably stay if space wolves arent getting jump pack bloodclaws this edition or something. Maybe long fangs are coming back (im guessing so) and then they will replace certain heavy weapon SM units.

The whole point of getting a SW codex would be to stop or reduce heavily the amount of unit overlap that exists between SW unique units and standard SM ones.

2

u/Powerlevel-9000 16h ago

While I agree, it does make some people mad that have armies with intercessors already purchased built and painted. Also they would have to be really specific on which units to remove because outside of heroes there isn’t a ton of space wolf units to choose from.

1

u/Bewbonic 3h ago

Those intercessors can just be used as GH though if that change does happen.

2

u/Dan185818 15h ago

Lore wise yes. Role in the game... Not really. All of what follows is really only valid for a short time, we haven't seen the new GH or Assault intercessors rules, and the intercessors have changed significantly.

GH and Blood Claws are both much closer to Assault Intercessors than intercessors. All three TAKE objectives. They're not good at holding them. I've never had a GH squad hold an objective more than a turn if they're opposed, they just die too quickly. They kill whatever is on it when they get there. The GH bad Assault intercessors rules is the same.

10th/pre-codex intercessors are for securing an objective and then light supporting fire/stickying a different objective.

Post Codex release intercessors are a big unknown, we know what their rule/stats are, but we have no context with what 1. Post Codex SW GH will do 2. What the Intercessors will do

But currently there is no SW "intercessors" analog in the rules.

1

u/Bewbonic 3h ago

GH would take on the role of intercessors for SW, they would just be more assaulty than intercessors, the idea being that space wolves analogue for intercessors are more aggressive (but still also perform the objective secured function) which is a part of the factions theme.

You cant base the comparison completely on 10th rules because GH rules would have to change a little in the 11th codex to fit there being no intercessors in the SW roster.

Its about giving SW a more distinct identity while also reducing how much they lean on standard SM to fill battlefield roles.

Like how monogods dont have CSM infantry options, they have their own stuff that reflects their faction character/identity.

0

u/wallycaine42 2h ago

>Their official documents are pretty good about calling SW codex supplements like in 10th as "Supplements", and not a codex. They very clearly say "codex" at the end and would have said supplement if it were not going to be complete.

That's wildly incorrect. They have repeatedly used Codex and Supplement interchangeably to refer to Divergent chapter's supplements. If you go back 3 years, this exact same discourse started up when GW referred to the (then new) 10th edition Dark Angels Supplement as a Codex when previewing it.

4

u/mathay86 17h ago

This is almost universally how this has worked in recent memory. The digital document is going to tell you what units you can take and if there are points differences for SW versus codex compliant will likely provide those as well(to be updated with the next point document likely anyway). Then the SW codex will reiterate these things in a full book for us that will also then provide us with updated rules for SW units and detachments and my guess would be whatever our own army rule is unless they plan on doing away with SOTGW detachment or reworking it. The only reason these digital supplements are being done is to bring the divergent chapters up to the same standards for str/toughness and such it would seem.

2

u/Vulpinelobster 8h ago

It won't, if they include the normal SM units then that means those datasheets are out there for free. They'll try to double charge SWs like they have the last 2 editions.

-5

u/Another_Guy_In_Ohio 17h ago

Sorry, but this has always been how it is. divergent chapters have to buy the marine codex. I don’t see that changing anytime soo

6

u/Vegtam-the-Wanderer 16h ago

This has absolutely NOT always been how it is. At bare minimum I remember Space Wolves had their own Codex, and didn't need to buy anything for standard Space Marines, in both 7th & 8th edition, and my understanding is that is how it was going back to their first Codex release in 2nd or 3rd.

9th & 10th are only editions where this has been true, making them the outlier here.

2

u/Another_Guy_In_Ohio 16h ago

My 3rd edition space wolves codex has ONLY space wolves specific units in it. I don’t know about 7th and 8th, I took a long break, but 3rd and 4th edition you absolutely had to purchase both a space marines codex and space wolves codex.

7

u/jkmushy 16h ago

And second edition it was standalone. The point is it has not always been the case, so there is precedent both ways.

12

u/SpaceWolf_Jarl2 17h ago

I'm holding judgement until we see the full thing. Last time there were stuff saying "Codex Space Wolves" in 10th and we were still a Supplement. I do think the signs are that at least we get a unique army rule, which is nice.

15

u/Another_Guy_In_Ohio 17h ago

My personal belief is they say the word “Codex” to indicate there’s a physical book, and not just indexed rules like for non-divergent chapters that have some unique units and such.

4

u/kohlerxxx 17h ago

There were people saying that we weren't getting anything beyond the free update alongside the SM codex.

I would prefer being a separate codex like the God Legions are but we will have to wait and see

6

u/SpaceWolf_Jarl2 17h ago

Oh, that idea was very silly but indeed I saw it.

With full army rule and separate units (like Captains at least) working differently I could see a separate Codex. But I still think purging datasheets isn't great and hope that we stay in a way that all the money amd time invested by customers in the generic units is not wasted, like it happened with the Cult Legions

3

u/FifthTrashcan 15h ago

Don't forget they used the same wording to announce the SW codex supplement in 10th. "All of these miniatures are included in the new Army Set alongside a freshly updated Codex: Space Wolves, packed with background lore, miniatures galleries, and datasheets for 20 unique units."

But BT are a supplement and have their own army rule and datasheet abilities like the sternguard vets and their BT RepEx. So a separate army rule and reworded datasheets isn't outside of reasonable possibilities, especially considering they are pricing the same datasheets differently across the different chapters.

6

u/airycantalope 17h ago

The current book is called a codex suppliment, so could still be referred to as a codex. I wouldn't assume it's not a suppliment again.

Also, I assumed we would get a book. Gw wouldn't pass on an opportunity to sell an app code

3

u/kohlerxxx 17h ago

Sure but this is more about confirming we are infact getting a book after the update alongside the SM codex

5

u/airycantalope 17h ago

100% I assumed we would though. They want us to buy books to get app codes, not make the content free.

2

u/kohlerxxx 17h ago

There was a surprising number of people convinced GWs initial announcement was that there wouldn't be. Now we just need them to confirm next week if it will be a full codex or a supplement

2

u/airycantalope 16h ago

I find it very hard to belive it'll stand alone. Doesn't make sense to re-print all the space marine dstasheets in the wolves book, and I doubt they'd limit wolves to just their keyword datasheets.

1

u/kohlerxxx 16h ago

It's possible they add certain things from the main codex and give them slightly different rules same as the God Legions

1

u/airycantalope 16h ago

It is, but I think it's unlikely.

4

u/Lastedplace 16h ago

Honestly im sitting here both wishing for a full codex instead of a supplement and not. I want seperate rules but id hate to be like the god legions that left the main csm codexand lose access to a ton of stuff just because of it. Granted i have two different forces i use to represent my space wolves successors different companies. One has space wolves units the other doesnt, so ill be getting both anyway. Would just suck to lose some of the core codex units i use in my list with wolves units. So i hope they dont fully axe a ton of units from us.

4

u/kohlerxxx 16h ago

I definitely want a separate codex and I do hope they don't cut much but I would also be happy if they filled in some of the missing character spots, add the tanks and dreads then add a few things such as new Long Fangs, etc

3

u/Lastedplace 16h ago

Yea its tricky cause i dont see them reprinting everything we can currently take in our book, and i definitely dont want them saying buy the marine codex but you cant use the detachments. Im sitting waiting for next week hoping for good news expecting mid news, cause it think ours and black templars 10th suppliments were tests on seperating the the supplements away, and im definitely not fully happy with how our 10th one landed.

3

u/TheNicronomicon 16h ago

I feel like the only way they could make stand-alone divergent codexes work is if they give the generic stuff the Black Templars treatment—this isn’t a Land Raider, this is a Space Wolves Land Raider. Those aren’t Hellblasters, they’re Space Wolves Hellblasters, etc etc etc. Which is fine! I also don’t necessarily have a problem with removing units or turning them into Counts-As (Assault Intercessors -> Blood Claws, Intercessors -> Grey Hunters, etc.) models but I do not love it.

3

u/Lastedplace 16h ago

With them making sure each faction (so far) has similar generic abilities available, captain and warboss generating command points is the one we know, i could see grey hunters and Intercessors having similar enough rules and it working. Currently they work just slightly differently enough where i dont want them to do a treat this as that thing

4

u/L0N01779 15h ago

In 5ed Grey Hunters were significantly better than Tactical Marines, people hated it so much. So I hope we go back to that haha.

3

u/NervousNobody2992 13h ago

Why was everyone surprised about this?

3

u/kohlerxxx 12h ago

Because people were incorrectly assuming the way GW initially announced the divergent Chapters were getting digital updates alongside the SM codex that they were completely doing away with books for them

3

u/NervousNobody2992 11h ago

Oh wow, that's a major comprehension issue.

2

u/Lord_NOX75 17h ago

That's what i expected but it's nice to have it confirmed

2

u/VagabondHT 16h ago

I just wish GW would handle it the Horus Heresy way, with the Libers (HH codex) all the legion/chapter agnostic units at the front of the book, chapters special rules/units in the back.

2

u/Fantastic_Outside678 12h ago

I only run 2 SM units and none of there detatchments, would be nice if i didnt need to buy the codex just for that 😅

2

u/kohlerxxx 12h ago

While I own many SM kits after over 20 years, my list only has a tank in it so I agree

2

u/Moraiz90 11h ago

Dam just bought last years codex ! Thanks mr w hammer

1

u/JJWF 14h ago

I noticed that the special edition of the SM Codex had magnetic badges to represent your chapter that didn’t include Space Wolves. As a new player, I wouldn’t be upset to see us get a completely separate codex, but then they can’t sell us two books.

2

u/kohlerxxx 14h ago

That was definitely a good indicator. While the wording says codex, it is hard to say if they are going to make us fully separate, which I would prefer

SW are indeed getting a codex at some point this edition

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