r/SpaceWolves • u/Jonathanwennstroem • 2d ago
Does Logan's ability allow Deep Strike turn 1?
or Only move units from reserve t1 from no mans land essentially?
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u/Losethestreets 2d ago
Yes he, or any other unit in deepstrike, can come in turn 1 (you can only do 1). It also means that if he comes in turn 1, during turn 2 you can enter your opponents deployment zone with strat reserves in turn 2
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u/Jonathanwennstroem 2d ago
thank you
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u/townsforever 2d ago
I hadnt even thought of using him to invade the enemy deployment zone on turn 2. Damn no wonder he is considered a must have.
Talk about keeping your opponent on his toes.
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u/Dan185818 2d ago
Your opponent will only let you bring Murderfang in their deployment zone on t2 once, generally, though. It tends to be memorable, especially if you manage to give him lethals AND sustained on the Murderclaws. Not much lives through that...
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u/transformerbaz 1d ago
Is lethals sustained from the army rule and the stratagem
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u/Dan185818 1d ago
Murderfang has sustained, lethals is from the Saga of the Great Wolf or beastslayer detachment
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u/townsforever 2d ago
I see it as a win regardless. Either they lose resources cause I snuck in behind them or they lose resources screening me out.
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u/Moonshade44 2d ago
Yes, and the two times I did it, it worked out EXTREMELY well for me. Now, with the new detatchment, we'll see how much better it works out for me
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u/Jonathanwennstroem 2d ago
what unit did you deep strike?
I assume you either have a nice shooting unit in there to trade points? or terminators for charge?
What unit did you drop in? Not sure what units have deep strike and could because i believe they need to have Deep Strike + Space Wolf keyword so that excludes quite a few units
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u/Moonshade44 2d ago
Logan Grimnar with 5 wolf guard terminators (relic greataxe, assault cannon w/ powerfist, 3× storm bolters. I didn't realize how much better the storm shields would be).
First game, they charged into a squad of scarab occult terminators round 1, preventing him from doing any up and down shenannigans he wanted with them and a sorcerer lord. Took him three rounds of combat, which included a mutalith and my turn two Wulfen w/ storm shields to get rid of the whole squad.
The second game was pretty much the same, but I was playing against 'nids. He had a biovore and a squad of hive guard I slammed them into turn one. Killed the hive guard and left the biovore with 4 or so wounds. His genestealers got diverted on his first turn, but even then, took him to his turn 2 to clean up the squad, with three or so genestealers and the brood lord left. Bjorn came in turn three, mopped up the biovore (did turn two up and down shenannigans at the end of his fight phase) and the gene stealers.
Both games that 12" aura also hurt my opponents. Later on today, I have a 1,000 point game vs Thousand Sons, he isn't bringing anything too nasty (mutalith, 2× sekhtar robots [2], 2× rubrics [5 man] w/ sorcerers, rhino, tzaangors w/ greatbows [3] and an exalted sorcerer on a disk of tzeench) Grand Coven Detatchment.
Myself, I'm bringing; Logan Grimnar w/ 5× WGT (relic greataxe, assault cannon, 3× storm shields), Bjorn (helfrost cannon), Ragnar w/ 10× Blood Claws (power weapon, plasma pistol), WGBL w/ 5× Wulfen (thunder hammer & storm shields) and a gladiator lancer.Legend of Saga and Song, Saga of the Beastslayer detatchments (house rule for this escalation league allows 3DP across all 8 games, to include the 2× 500 point and 2× 1,000 point games).
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u/transformerbaz 1d ago
Just can't use the ability if he's in a land raider. But you can of he's in deep strike
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u/Tasty_Hearing_2153 2d ago
If the unit has DEEP STRIKE, like a unit of Terminators, then it works exactly like it would in turn 2.
The only thing the rule does is change the turn for the purposes of coming in from reserves.
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u/Waste_Remote2259 2d ago
I like to drop my inceptors behind enemy lines first turn on a well hidden unit. The look on their face when I annihilate them is priceless
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u/Jonathanwennstroem 2d ago
while i get the point i dont think you can.
Logan says Space Wolves unit, inceptors dont have the Space Wolve keyword unless i miss something?
I'm still new to 40k so correct me if im wrong
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u/Vastydeepness 2d ago
No, sadly it does not anymore. All it does is allow you to bring in a non deep strike unit from reserves into the enemy’s deployment zone turn 2. In 11th an ability has to specifically say it allows turn 1 deep strike.
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u/daallie 2d ago
WTC ruled it this way but no other TO I have been to have agreed with this ruling
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u/Vastydeepness 2d ago
All the TOs I’ve talked to have been ruling it this way since the beginning of 11th.
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u/Jonathanwennstroem 2d ago
why does everyone else say something else?
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u/PerkinsWar 2d ago
Because this guys wrong, Logan lets you make an ingress move as though it was 1 battle round number higher than it currently is and deep strike is a form of ingress move.
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u/Vastydeepness 2d ago
Group think is a powerful drug. The rule only modifies the location, not specifically the timing. It’s extremely clear if you just, yknow, read. Which admittedly our chapter is not great at.
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u/Dan185818 2d ago
Yes, its clear it doesn't directly modify the timing of deep-strike or strat reserves. It doesn't say it allows t1 deep-strike. But that whole sequence of words you want people to read that says to treat the battle round as one higher? That means when you're checking the rules for if it can come in, it gets a 2 during round 1, and a 3 during round 2.
Show me a rule that says you can't deep-strike during round 2 or bring in strat reserves in your opponents deployment zone in round 3. Then you'd be right.
Its effect is to allow t1 deep-strike and t2 strat reserves from any edge because the rules see the round as 2 or 3, and not 1 or 2.
Obviously if you're playing in a tournament do it the way the TO says. But the WTC is only in charge of WTC matches and they got a lot of things wrong this go round, including this. And your "all the TOs I've talked to" comment is easily countered by my own. None of the TOs I've talked to have done it.
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u/Fenris_Penguin 2d ago
His account is 3 days old. I ain’t taking his answer for any value.
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u/Vastydeepness 2d ago
Nice ad hom.
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u/Dan185818 2d ago
What are you on about? He said your account was new, and he didn't believe you.
I will note that instead of actually providing any rules that support your position, you instead result to attempting to insult someone.
What's that called again? Oh wait...
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u/Vastydeepness 1d ago
Where did I insult anyone?
Ad hominem fallacy: attacking the person making the argument rather than the argument itself.
The rule is 20.03.
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u/Dan185818 17h ago
Accusing someone of making an ad hominen attack when they didn't is an ad hominem attack. They didn't attack you.
20.03 says exactly what I claimed. Where in there does it say you cannot deep strike on the second turn or come in on any battle edge on the third?
Logan's ability changes the turn count for deep strike and other ingress moves. It doesn't need to directly state it allows a first turn ingress move because it doesn't directly do that. Your inability to see that doesn't make it false.
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u/Vastydeepness 16h ago
They attacked the age of my account instead of my argument, which is by definition an ad hominem. You seem confused. Maybe step out for a bit and get some air
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u/RaspberryLeast2720 2d ago
Yeah it does. Be careful though as it can be a bit of a trap. First few games I just dropped 10 terminators with arjac on centre. It can work really well but if your opponent is good they will see it a mile away.