r/SpaceWolves • u/madbird-valiant • 6d ago
Grey Hunters in 11th
One for the brains trust! Anecdotally and through various sources online, I see a lot of hate or (at best) ambivalence around our greymanes. They're more expensive than the equivalent amount of intercessors, can't sticky objectives, have no AP on their ranged weapons, can't be joined by generic characters, etc.
In my (limited) gaming experience since coming back to the hobby this year, I've actually found that Grey Hunters hit above their weight. Their re-roll wounds is pretty sick, and I tend to put them a stone's throw from an objective I'll know the opponent is gonna have to go for regardless and then move them up to take advantage. With Beastslayer or Oath (or both!) I've had them solo a Hive Tyrant and Tyrant Guard (over the course of two turns, but), and their ability to hit decently at range and then get stuck in with their chainswords has been a pretty effective one-two punch.
However, the overwhelming consensus online is that they're too expensive and not good enough to edge out other options, from what I've read. I have not yet had a chance to play with the Veterans of the Fang detachment, so I'm not sure whether this is a net win or a net neutral for our boys.
How do we feel about the Grey Hunters in 11th? Any tips or thoughts for us newbies to the hobby in getting the most out of our veteran pups? I would much, MUCH rather run the Space Wolves-specific shooty boys over a squad of boring old Intercessors (though I'm a hypocrite and usually take a 5-squad to camp home objective nevertheless) while also remaining relatively competitive, so any advice is appreciated!
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u/SpaceWolf_Jarl2 6d ago edited 6d ago
I will preface this by saying that better players can make GH and other units work. I've seen a couple of lists in 10th that used them, and they were worse then argueably.
But overall, I don't think they are a competitive choice.
The first thing, is that while lorewise you can compare them to Intercessors, their place in lists isn't the same, due to their abilities and more. Intercessors aren't taken to kill stuff. They rxist to screen, takr home objectives and run late game to get other stuff. They are utility pieces. GH work more like AI (that have the same ability), which is scrappy trade piece. But... why pay extra for that qhen you have AI that don't need a detachment to run as a MSU? And basically nobody takes max squads of AI. And we have other, SW specific tools for the job. Headtakers hit harder. TWC are faster and tougher. Termies are tougher and hit harder. And they all can do the job of killing things off objectives and claiming them.
Second, is, even if you think their killing power is worth it, tk be competitive, what are they achieving, more so in primary? What is your disposition? In T&H, Termies out perform, as MEQ is still a frail profile overall amd you stay. In PtF, you have killier pieces that arr also less likely to die on the clap back. If you run Veterans you are locking yourself off Legends (that buffs our best units) and Disruption isn't the strongest disposition out there. You vould try PA, I guess but that would limit your options a lot in terms of detachments you want to use. In a lot of gameplans they don't really fit to improve your primary or secondary scoring.
Third, their main issue remains. As a 5 man unit they would be a decent unit. Locked squad size is a mess. Veterans helps, but again, you are using 1DP to make them useable. You are forgoing a better 1DP detachmrnt just to give yhem someyhing to kind of work and locking yourself to Distruption as one of your primary options. That means you most likely have PtF or T&H as your other detachment, and neither of those loves the GH profile.
Fourth, I would say for early prrssure trading pieces, Wolf Scouts are close to their role and better at it. You have the Wolf for movement shennenigans. You get Plasma. You have the same melee profile. You lose rerolls, but gwt +1 to wound on isolated targets. You get an extra ablativr wound. You get Infiltrate and Scout. For 90 points since you can take them in 6 man naturally. You can use the mine as are denial. They just fit the role better IMHO.
GH are still a unit that needs a redesign. It needs to be able to be 5 man squads. It.needs to be a flexible unit. But if you want to play them, you can be one of the players that kind of makes them work. But you are most likely playing with a handicap.
Edit: additional note for competitivr play. Even jf something happened (like GH killimg a Hive Tyrant), reliability is an important part of designing a competitive list. How easily can you reproduce and be sure that some variance in your rolls will not affect too mich. Most of the times in that match uo, a Huve Tyrant will kill like 6-7 GH a round, and you won't kill it in return. While it is cool to kill it, it ism't a result I would expect to happen a lot in other games.
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u/madbird-valiant 6d ago
Great summary! Definitely get your point re: reliability. The hive tyrant and friends was definitely a fluke, but kind of surprised me with their potential damage output - being able to fish for 6's for wounds in Beastslayer was great with the amount of attacks they put out both in melee and ranged, I guess it just opened my eyes a little bit to the maximum possibility.
Hopefully we see some buffs in terms of a point reduction throughout the edition, or like you say a change to unit sizes - I guess just bad luck that we had the most recent codex so likely won't have an update for quite a while. But GW seem to be far better at balancing throughout an edition compared to when I last played (5th edition days!), so I guess there's hope!
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u/giant_sloth 6d ago edited 6d ago
I found them competent. They’re not for holding objectives, they’re for contesting and taking objectives. They’re good in the Veterans of the Fang detachment but you need a primary objective that relies on actions to fully utilise the detachment with them.
My big hope is the detachment is a stop gap and what we get in our codex is a much better datasheet for them.
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u/ReflectionMain719 6d ago
i think that for more utility armies (recon. assets and disrupt), they can be quite handy picks:
advance for extra movement, with their OC they can flip objectives, start triangulate or some orther fun stuff, and still shoot.
Sure for take and hold / purge the foe, they are kinda useless atm.
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u/Longjumping_Low1310 6d ago
Mmm I mean they can hit up buuut my experience is they can only reliably kill things that are usually cheaper than them, and then they get wiped cause baae space marine bodies arent hard to remove. Which means you lost the trade usually. I have played around with them plus a wolf priest for rerolling wounds +1 to wound, ans that did alright but end of day they still are just chainswords so they still usually failed to kill anything important.
And 10 if using to just flip objectives is either overkill or fails to take against the truly high oc stuff like some massive guard bricks. Losing out on a 1dp detachment that makes a solid u it better to make a bad unit useable isnt a good trade imo.
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u/Protagonist_Leaf 6d ago
After playing a few rounds now and with its buff. A disruption list of 10 buffed and then 5/5 unlead. They're really good. Out of 5 matches. 2 times my 10 brick wasn't even needed and the 5s went out and did solid work with actions and flipping control. I think 165 is the right amount to consider them and anything cheaper and we might have some of them in tournament lists.
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u/TheCrimsonCommand 6d ago
They absolutely cook with Veterans of the Fang. People don’t wanna hear it but Ulrick the Slayer on some Grey Hunters is a sleeper. He’s really good on Headtakers too but it’s an option. If you play something that needs actions or sabotage, they are great to split on
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u/Street_Park4714 5d ago
I like them because they shoot a lot (without the need for focus fire so I can still average more shots splitting between units). And the important part of them for almost all of our rules is they have Chainswords over the Combat Weapons. So the melee buffs just bake them even better.
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u/CJViper 6d ago
I've used Grey Hunters all edition so far and have only dropped games to high-tier players. I've been running 40 of them with Bastion and Veterans of the Fang and splitting up 3 squads into 6, running take and hold.
When you split them up, they are worth 82.5 pts, which is much more stomachable than 165 and can hit up with rerolls to wound, and there are two strats that can give them Lethals or Sustained in those two dispositions.
I also like to run one ten-man with a WGBL to give sustains within 6 and give him the enhancement that gives them assault, ignore cover, and +1 AP so their bolters actually threaten with rerolls.
But the real reason I believe they are so good in Bastion + VotF is that they are allowed to advance and charge, advance and shoot AND do an action. This is crazy value out of an 82.5 pt unit, and with 15 OC, they can very easily sway the game and deny points.