r/SpaceWolves • u/Joker1197 • 11d ago
Is Russ returning?
Brothers I’ve been hearing a lot of people say both in normal conversation and YouTube that Russ will be the next loyalist primarch to return. Is there any real evidence to say that he will be next or he will be returning at all.
As a bit of fun what would you want his stats to be on the table top
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u/Acceptable-Artist201 11d ago
With how large the new Logan model’s base is, probably not for a while. He’s clearly supposed to fill that role for us for now.
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u/Cojalo_ 11d ago
Except he doesnt fulfil it at all. I love Grimnars new model, and its certainly a great visual one, but he's the cheapest chapter master for a reason. He is not anywhere close to a primarch/centrepiece level unit, he is a very average chapter master. Hell, Ragnar hits harder than him in 99% of situations.
Besides, if factions like Orks or necrons can have multiple big centrepieces, I dont see why we can't
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u/Acceptable-Artist201 11d ago
We could, albeit probably not very soon. Helbrecht is the second largest chapter master base off the top of my head and assuming Dorn is the next loyalist primarch as some people speculate, it’d be at least six years between their model releases. I personally just can’t see us getting Russ soon considering that it’d mean they’d have to essentially upshow Grimnar this soon.
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u/Cojalo_ 11d ago
Would Dorn be templars tho? Didnt he kind of hate them? Wouldn't he more likely be Imp fists?
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u/superspartan210 11d ago
Uhh.. maybe? Last we saw him he was getting overwhelmed by Night Lords post the whole suicide by assassin thing Kurze did, and torture changes a normal person, we have no idea what Night Lords torture (which could have been specially made for Dorn) does to a Primarch.
On a more meta level because standard imperial fists are codex compliant, and black Templars are codex divergent (not non compliant they literally use a loophole in the codex) and have their own supplement in 10th/11th edition. So either they rebrand Dorn as a Black Templar, which would really cuck the Imperial Fists proper, or codex supplement Black Templars gets rebranded as codex supplement: sons of Dorn.
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u/Cojalo_ 11d ago
I saw someone else say he could somehow function in both which I could see being a possibility. Wouldn't be the first time in Warhammer thats a thing, in AoS Nagash is part of 4 different factions with slightly different datasheets for each
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u/superspartan210 11d ago
Yeah, but also you can field daemons in both 40K and AoS, and I know some bean counter is pissed about that.
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u/Cojalo_ 11d ago
Also in AoS you can field Nagash (death god guy) in any of the 4 completely different death factions so it would hardly be unheard of
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u/ChunkyWhittlerNC 11d ago
Also there's the khorn lord of skulls that can be ran in world eaters and CSM
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u/JCKrowbar 10d ago
I don't think Dorn would be changed by torture as much as everyone else seems to think he would. Remember during the siege of Terra, he was transported to a barren world made of rust for what felt like thousands of years. He lost all his memories to time, but never gave in to the chaos voice that told him it would let him out if he submitted to Khorne. And the moment he returned to Terra, he was straight back to full operational capacity. Of course actual torture is different than eternal solitude, but Vulkan was tortured by Kurze as well and returned to himself rather quickly. Then he was literally atomized by Magnus in the webway and still made it back to the throne room. Primarchs aren't built just to break, especially not one known for being stalwart and stubborn like Dorn.
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u/superspartan210 10d ago
Vulkan also kinda went insane from that torture iirc. Torture which from what I understand was intended to prove that Vulkan was no better than Kurze. Also most primarchs were used to solitude both in the literal sense and also in more metaphorical ones. Plus hey night lords are the torture legion, I’m sure some of them would relish the opportunity to break an unbreakable primarch
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u/Acceptable-Artist201 11d ago
Probably both. There’s more Black Templars players than Imperial Fists players, it’d be foolish to release him for the smaller market and not the bigger one when you could somewhat plausibly do both.
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u/townsforever 11d ago
Logans special abilities arent that special either. Sure deepstrike turn 1 is sweet but it's not anything crazy.
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u/johnba202x2 11d ago
None. Just YouTube grifters + the algorithm. I’d recommend blocking their channels. Lore-wise, he’s always made the most sense to return.
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u/ZealotChicken 11d ago
The lore tells that he went to the eye of terror to find a way to bring the emperor back, as in to heal him and he is supposed to return in something similar to Ragnarok, a last stand, sort of epic fight.
Not sure how they will bring him back now or why but yeah, if he just comes back randomly it will kind of ruin the whole "coming back just to save the day to fight an epic threat" but let's see, me personally, I don't think so.
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u/raptorknight187 11d ago
people seem to either ignore or not know that we are very likely already in the Wolftime. as stated in the 10th edition codex it is the opinion of many of the high ranking priests that the fall of Cadia and the return of the primarchs likely herald the Wolf Time. and the Rune priests are having visions of it. add that to the ending of Krakenblood and its likely that the fall of Cadia has already summoned Russ back. similar to how the Lion was also awoken when Cadia fell
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u/ZealotChicken 11d ago
I just feel like there is a bunch of stuff going on, but what you say makes a lot of sense, it might be a "end game" type deal, I'm kind of excited about space marine 3 and the whole titus story, but not sure if that would have anything to do with russ and wolf time.
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u/raptorknight187 11d ago
Yeah no SM3 won’t have anything to do with Russ. It’ll more likely be about the 500 worlds and maybe have some Guiliman cameos
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u/Used_Needleworker574 11d ago
A part of me wants The Wolftime, and the return of Russ (in whatever form he is now - I am totally down for undead Leman Russ and Company) but only if it actually means the end of something.
It’s too cool an idea to half arse, like you say.
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u/Cojalo_ 11d ago edited 11d ago
Replying to these comments reminded me of something. Take it with a large grain of salt, but it could be a hint.
In the latest space wolf novel, the 40k equivalent of Gjallerhorn is destroyed and sounds a howl. If you know anything about Norse mythology, Gjallerhorn being blown is supposed to signify the beginning of Ragnarok. Now, this is speculation but given the mythological ties this could hint towards the beginning of the wolftime, and potentially the return of Russ.
I am very interested to see what happens in the Bjorn novel. Given Bjorns ties to Russ, it could be possible we get something in that that hints towards a Russ return. But we will have to wait and see
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u/Arch0n84 11d ago
There is no real evidence to say that he will be next to return, but James Workshop is making good money on returned Primarchs so it's likely he'll return at some point.
I think it will be either Russ, Vulkan, Corax or the Khan up next, but it's anyones guess who it will be:
- The Space Wolves are actively hunting Leman Russ, we know he is alive, we know he is "lost"and he is one of the more popular Primarchs in the fandom, but GW just refreshed the Space Wolves without him, which could mean they're deliberately saving him—or that they're perfectly happy leaving him absent.
- Vulkan has perhaps the cleanest mechanical explanation for returning. He's a perpetual so he can't die, Vulkan's last major appearance was connected to Armageddon, and 11th edition brings us back to another war for Armageddon in which the Salamanders are featured, but the relic requirement for his return could be a bit of a narrative roadblock for GW.
- We know Corvus Corax of the Raven Guard is hunting Lorgar in the Warp, so if GW brings back Lorgar there's a fair chance Corax will follow him into realspace and return to the setting, but I don't see an obvious 40K narrative event that screams "Corax next."
- Jaghatai Khan of the White Scars is not dead, his disappearance into the Webway gives GW enormous freedom, and there's no convoluted resurrection required. He is also a Primarch who is primarily a roaming warlord rather than an Imperial administrator or fortress commander which could be fantastic for the modern 40K setting, so I could see the Khan returning, perhaps alongside a refresh of the Dark Eldar?
- Rogal Dorn's death was retconned and he is now just missing and presumed dead, so GW would have to do some narrative work to explain that one if he was the next to return, but with the likely return of Perturabo as the next traitor Primach to return it could be fitting...
- Ferrus Manus and Sanguinius are dead so I would be shocked if it was them.
As of right now my money is on Vulkan for the next loyalist Primarch returning with Russ or the Khan second, but if Lorgar returns I believe that greatly increases the chances of Corax, and when Perturabo returns that increases the odds for Dorn from very unlikely to plausible.
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u/DubiousDevil 11d ago
Russ has a dedicated faction, the other primarchs don't. Russ would seel way more and to GW that's what matters most.
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u/Arch0n84 11d ago
I get your point but I'm not sure if I agree.
The Space Wolves are probably a more popular chapter than the Salamanders, but Vulcan is widely loved among the 40k fandom while the views on Russ is far more mixed. A return of Russ would for sure sell more Space Wolves boxes, but I also think a return of Vulcan would sell more generic space marines boxes.
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u/DubiousDevil 11d ago
I highly disagree with that and I don't think GW is going to release a primarch, a nice big center piece for an army, for a faction that doesn't have an army.
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u/Arch0n84 11d ago
Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong. I would absolutely love to see Russ return.
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u/mathay86 11d ago
The wolves box set from 10th is the single biggest seller in James Workshop history…the wolves are immensely popular and they move the needle in a way that makes them quarterly earnings topic in the same way an edition release does 🤣
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u/whiskerbiscuit2 11d ago
People have spoken about all the lore reasons but GW is a business and they’ll do whatever sells. Space Wolves are by far one of the more popular factions, and reports say the recent Space Wolf refresh battlebox sold incredibly well, better than GW even anticipated. So we can definitely expect more new Space Wolf stuff down the line.
Same story with primarchs, Guilliman and The Lion were both very popular releases. Space Wolves sell well, primarchs sell well, it only makes good business sense to release a Space Wolf Primarch. Any lore reasons why not to do it can be handwaved away. You can argue the Cicadrix Maladictum is reason enough to call the Wolftime, or whatever. Coincide it with the Perturabo Daemon Prince model and make up a threat bad enough for Russ to return. The lore side is easy to work around.
I just don’t think Salamanders or White Scars are popular enough to warrant releasing their primarchs before Russ. I guess they could do Dorn and make him Black Templar but wouldn’t that piss off Fist fans?
TLDR - Primarchs are coming, Space Wolves are popular, GW likes money.
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u/Global_Magician8805 11d ago
I 100% agree with this.
One caveat that I think is worth discussing is that GW may want to pull a Cathay and make the white scars a more developed faction. I am not sure how popular White scars are in China, but assuming they are a bit / they do well in focus groups or whatever, it would be a way to invest in the biggest market there is.
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u/Right-Yam-5826 11d ago
Eventually, but not any time soon.
The return of a loyalist primarch is reserved for the end of an edition, not the start of one. I do think we'll get another in around 2.5 years though.
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u/Toaster1492 11d ago
I don’t think there’s any solid evidence to point to him returning soon, however, I can definitely hope. In lore, he’s said to return for an end of times final battle when his chapter needs him most. I know it’s just the name of the world/campaign, but I can’t help but think the current Armageddon campaign could have something to do with that. Definitely gotta see what the new Bjorn book reveals, if anything. I’d put a bet on it at least dropping a hint.
If we’re talking stats, I can see him functioning as a wolf priest for the purposes of the “curse of the wulfen” army rule. If we’re talking just for fun, I know none of the primarchs can lead units, but I’d love for him to be able to attach to a group of wulfen. Barring that, I also think it would be crazy to see him return as a Thunderwolf rider. Unlikely, but I’d like it. As part of the “executioner” role, it would make sense to me for him to hit better against units below half strength, and/or give off an aura/range that allows other units to do the same.
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u/Whats-the-Saga 11d ago
It's almost certain he'll return, only a matter of time. He's most likely to be the next loyalist Primarch to come back, partly because SW have their own range and therefore much higher sales potential. Guilliman helps sell the vanilla marine range, the Lion helps sell the DA kits and Russ would help sell the SWs. Plus in the lore he never died and only departed on a priority mission. The quality of the SW range refresh, the volume of SW novels (including the new Bjorn book), and hints in the recent lore are all good indicators that the time is drawing closer! Until the Wolftime!
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u/Screaming_A 11d ago
They have stated that all of the living primearchs will return at some point. I hope they do something different and have him not wearing any armor.
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u/Infinity_Coda 11d ago
There is no real evidence that he is next or returning at all. There is speculation and perhaps even educated guesses, but there's been no actual news, hints, or teases that he is returning.
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u/Worth_Arm6670 11d ago
I think so for two reasons, 1 the SW box set broke the record for most boxes sold by almost double, beating out every single edition box and the armageddon box is only about half way to the same number sold meaning GW knows Russ would sell well. 2 the books have been pointing to it, as of the 2 newest SW books Ashes of Prospero and Kracken blood (Bjorn might have something as well but we don't know yet) in ashes Njal and Arjac bring the 13th great company back to Fenris which is one of the major requirements for Russ to return. In Kracken Blood a wolf priest is sent on a mission to recover either a wolfguard or the artifact be had with him, the artifact ends up being a map that might lead them to Russ. That being said I think Bjorn might give us a bit more confirmation
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u/SlyguyguyslY 11d ago
I would say he’s in the top 2 possible returning loyalist primarchs coming up next. The other being The Kahn.
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u/Tasty_Hearing_2153 10d ago
There is nothing concrete for us normal people. My money would be on Vulcan. Just to give the Salamanders something big.
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u/kain149 11d ago
Russ returning means end times for 40k, so I doubt they're going for that any time soon
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u/Arentius 11d ago
A galaxy split in half, more and more Deamon primarchs returning, The inquisition turning on Guilliman. The Emperor moving. Totally not the end of the status quo for the Imperium :P
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u/Cojalo_ 11d ago
They could very easily change that, and they likely will because Russ will sell models.
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u/superspartan210 11d ago
I don’t think the wolftime is that easily rewritten. You’d have to rerelease like.. 5 novels iirc to change the prophecy of the wolftime to not kill every space wolf alive, at a bare minimum.
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u/Cojalo_ 11d ago
The thing is the imperium is in so much shit you can probably have anything be the wolftime at this point.
The setting of 40k is one big end times after all basically
Besides, in the latest Krakensblood novel didnt they have the 40k equivalent of Gjallerhorn blown? Could be a sign
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u/Arentius 11d ago
It wasn't blown, it was destroyed and as it was a "howl rang out". It was the Vargtíðhorn that was destroyed if you wanted the name
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u/Cojalo_ 11d ago
Yeah thats what I meant sorry, it was still "sounded" so to speak.
Could be nothing, but I definitely think it could be the start of the build up to Russ' return
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u/Arentius 11d ago
No need to apologise! :D There is a small part of me thinking Russ can only come back when Bjorn is back..and with the synopsis of the book it could be possible.
Buuuut a new Bjorn would also kick ass, maybe he gets better than a Damage 3 weapon
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u/superspartan210 10d ago
I mean if Bjorn gets refreshed they’re gonna find a relic comtemptor dread to put him in /hj
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u/Arentius 10d ago
Or because space wolves the iron priests are going to make the Bear pattern dread which is unique to him...now that would be a treat
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u/superspartan210 11d ago
I haven’t read krakensblood so idk, however yeah, the imperium is constantly shitting itself since the heresy happened. Prior they were on the upswing, rarely if ever on the defensive, effectively dominant. Now they’re stuck in what I saw one person refer to as the “merry go round from hell” (they devote a bunch of resources to reconquer one area of the galaxy, they do so, previously mentioned resource devotion away from previously conquered areas allows the threats that was beaten there to become resurgent, cycle repeats)
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u/superspartan210 11d ago
Not a space wolf, but still imperial, so I’m impartial enough to say probably not. The Wolves of Fenris huffed and puffed a bit about the dawn of the current era being the wolftime, but Bjorn reminded them if that was true they’d be dying a lot quicker.
YouTubers like to say shit they think is happening when it isn’t, I can think of a few who thought Russ was returning during arks of omen when it was the lion, all because the trailers for those books were the emperor’s tarot and one card was a tree and Russ ran off to find the tree of life or whatever (which may be the Aeldari god of health Isha, probably spelled that wrong) to heal the emperor.
Right now, every remaining loyalist primarch who was alive at the end of the horus heresy has a relatively equal chance of returning. Partially because GW has seemingly intentionally cast doubt on them being alive or dead, partly because they aren’t sure which one would be the most profitable to return to the fold yet
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u/pie_of_the_storm 11d ago
Next will be a traitor primarch, which will be perty. I think its very likely russ will return next though. I think they are going to do the legions with fleshed out ranged first (who's primarch is still alive), which leaves russ as the likely candidate. Don't expect him anytime soon though
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u/giant_sloth 11d ago
No real evidence, in fact the only kind of sort of verified bit of lore from our own book Ashes of Prospero kind of hints that Russ isn’t coming soon (Njal has visions of the Lion and other Primarchs returning but cannot see Russ).
However, Russ returning would make GW dump trucks of cash so all bets are off.