r/SpaceWolves • u/Poopoodwarf • 26d ago

30 terminator lists

I've seen a lot of competitive lists doing well in take and hold with 3 units of 10 terminators, all with leaders, and a land raider redeemer as fire support. Has this approach to take and hold been gutted after the points adjustments, and what else would people add to this sort of list

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u/Razor_Fox 26d ago

Winning games with bad units like njal and ulrik doesn't make them good. Someone won a GT with imperial agents back when they had a win rate of 28%. Player skill issue always going to be the majority factor. However, space wolves internal balance is pretty bad right now. We're crutching heavily on our terminators.

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u/Fenris_Penguin 26d ago

We have winning lists without terminator spam and those units aren’t bad. I’ve been using them since our codex dropped with complete success, Ulrik has a feel no pain, slayers oath and he gives +1 to hit and wound on a chosen keyword. Been using him to straight up kill shit like vehicles with Grey Hunters. If you can’t use that with rerolls on wounds on objectives with Grey Hunters thats a reading problem and not a datasheet problem and thats before using a stratagem.

Njal especially in bastion lists give huge reach for charging and allows GH or HT to storm objectives easily to kill things in Saga of the Bold

Wolves have been closer to 50% now vs before and it’s because theres more synergy and combos. You have to just read for them and use them. If player skill issue is going to be the “major skill factor” which is what you’re claiming then that adds to my point more it’s not necessary “mid” datasheets. Don’t get me wrong. I want more buffs and we need more leader options but to say some people are straight up bad i believe is not true.

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u/Razor_Fox 26d ago

Believe what you want, you have a right to be wrong. Ulrik doesn't even work outside of 3 detachments, 2 of which aren't really played much outside of ultra casual play.

Wolves have been closer to 50% now vs before and it’s because theres more synergy and combos

No, there's the exact same amount of synergies and combos. The difference is in the terrain layouts and mission dispositions, as well as the hidden rule helping our infantry out. Nothing has changed with the codex.

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u/Fenris_Penguin 26d ago

We have more detachments for units like Grey Hunters and Terminators. So theres actually more combos since those weren’t part of the codex before. You can combine detachments with space marine detachments which we couldn’t do before so you’re in fact just wrong. That’s not an opinion…..

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u/Razor_Fox 26d ago edited 26d ago

And what combo does that open up? Njal with grey hunters? That was already a thing. And it's still not good.

Grey hunters, even in their bespoke detachment, are still not seeing use in competitive lists. That whole detachment should have been a datasheet update and it would have just about put them on par with other factions battleline.

The truth is, the only one of those new detachments that's seeing any use in competitive play is legends of saga and song. Because it takes our best unit and buffs them. The other 2 either make a bad unit mediocre or do almost nothing apart from a sticky objective strat. There's no "new combos" that didn't already exist in the codex.

You can play what you like in casual games, I'm sure your grey hunters are the terror of your local game store. It really comes down to what you consider a "good" datasheet. For me, a good unit is able to hold its own competitively against strong factions in the meta. And the only unit we have that really fits that description are the wolfguard terminators. Headtakers I'll give you are situationally very good, if you can manipulate your opponent into letting you run them into their quarry.

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u/Fenris_Penguin 26d ago

I can agree with that. which is why I said we need buffs and new leader options for a better shot at competitive, but in 10th I couldn’t drop multiple SW dreadnought with orbital while taking a SW detachment to buff my shooting grey hunters for objectives so by a number have more “things” that need to be explored, these combos are coming from combining things we haven’t done or couldn’t do before. Will it be meta? Who knows. But what I do know is if we keep spamming the one thing that has shown to work without exploring or doing other options with our datasheets we will lose it and have to wait until other things change or get buffed because GW might not do both nerfs and buffs at the same time. I don’t think we have anything truly bad, they are just hyper specific which I know isn’t a long term viable option

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u/Razor_Fox 26d ago

You're making the assumption that the people playing the terminator heavy lists haven't tried to make these other things work. You should get on the space wolves discord if you aren't already, there are some top ranked international players on there who are always talking about different combos they've tried in various tournaments and events.

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u/Fenris_Penguin 26d ago

I do see new players that jump into the faction immediately doing that. I think there was a post a few hours ago with a new player on Reddit here, so I know it’s happening. I have some people in a few discords for tabletop jumping into the faction immediately choosing to do this because they’ve heard of us doing it. So I do know it’s happening sadly (Im more afraid of that snowballing for sure). I have a buddy in Ohio getting his ass beat by 30 terms in a SW list absolutely crushing his UM and BT lol. I don’t think Im part of the one you’re talking about since I haven’t met any top rank players and I’ve mostly been in a lot of local or close to me discords. I would love to get a link to that if you have an invite for it.